Hydra is a physical chip. No motherboard has one. No motherboard will probably ever have one. GPU makers have no incentive to adopt the chip, and mobo makers have no incentive to lose the SLI/CF contracts to adopt hydra.
Great upgrades in console history! The Atari 7800 (backwards compatible with the 2600, the then standard in home consoles), fail! The Nintendo 64DD, epic fail. The Sega CD, double epic fail, the Sega 32X, massive double epic fail. Oh, and that Ram expansion pack for the Nintendo 64 was full of fail as well. Shall we continue, the Jaguar CD, the console sucks, lets try to upgrade it, fail times infinity. Consoles are impossible to upgrade, its not a strength in value its a serious flaw.
Another $100-200 for your gaming PC getting you an effective 50% performance boost in a game you love, thats a real upgrade. On a console you hampered with half the resolution, reduced detail and jagged edges and with all that the frame rate still jumps around when the action gets heavy. Wish I could slap some more ram or a 2nd video card on the xbox, but I can't, you are stuck with it until Microsoft says its time to move on.
Hydra is a physical chip. No motherboard has one. No motherboard will probably ever have one. GPU makers have no incentive to adopt the chip, and mobo makers have no incentive to lose the SLI/CF contracts to adopt hydra.
I had a feeling Hydra would never see the light of day one way or another. Knowing now that it is a physical chip just makes it that more obvious.
Oh, and that Ram expansion pack for the Nintendo 64 was full of fail as well.
You're wrong here. Many games saw a benefit from the expansion pack, whether it was through smoother gameplay with many objects on the screen or extra features enabled. There were even a couple of games that REQUIRED the pack to run (Majora's Mask, Perfect Dark and Donkey Kong 64 for example). No failure here.
Another $100-200 for your gaming PC getting you an effective 50% performance boost in a game you love, thats a real upgrade. On a console you hampered with half the resolution, reduced detail and jagged edges and with all that the frame rate still jumps around when the action gets heavy. Wish I could slap some more ram or a 2nd video card on the xbox, but I can't, you are stuck with it until Microsoft says its time to move on.
Remember Cliff, not everyone has a massive LCD on their computer desk (even in the IC community). I'm still playing at 1680x1050 which, last time I checked, is a bit lower resolution than my 1920x1080 HDTV. Console games that have 1080 content are running at a HIGHER resolution on the HDTV at that point. And you can't upgrade a console for performance mostly because you don't NEED to. The game is written for that hardware.
All this being said, I'm mainly a PC gamer, and a $100-150 upgrade to dual 4870s would be pretty cool. Unfortunately I'm on an nVidia chipset so I'm "stuck" with my dual 8800 GT 512MB cards.
You're wrong here. Many games saw a benefit from the expansion pack, whether it was through smoother gameplay with many objects on the screen or extra features enabled. There were even a couple of games that REQUIRED the pack to run (Majora's Mask, Perfect Dark and Donkey Kong 64 for example). No failure here.
I'd have to agree with Mertesn. Though the expansion pack cost a bit (I think it was around $60) it was worth it when you saw what games it allowed, such as Perfect Dark. PD was one of my favorite games that gen, had many a great night playing the multiplayer with my brother. That was money well spent.
That said, I hate to say it but I'm switching to ATI. Not really because of the Crossfire gains per se... more because the NVidia drivers, of late, have sucked hard. That and I'm still pissed off that they took out the ability to do video overlay from my 8600 card... I mean C'MON! My GeForce3 could do video overlay!
Avoid the 4850 / 4870 cards. If you're going in for ATI, pick up either a 4770 or a 4890 configuration. They run significantly cooler.
Edit - or be prepared to potentially spend extra on cooling if you plan to crossfire a 4870 config.
All depends on the cooling you select for your 4850/4870. I'm currently running a Saphire 4870 with the vapor x cooling and I can't load that thing past 58c no matter how hard I try (with the fan manually adjusted of course, but its still quiet)
My experience with the 4850 is that as long as it has some kind of dual slot cooler it will run extremely cool. The original single slot spec on the 4850 was not adequate though.
Sapphire's VaporX cards are definitely a good choice. Personally though, I'd go in for a 4890 VaporX if I was going ATI in a gaming rig. I hear the 4890 has a lot of headroom for overclocking, and the vaporX cooler should just make it better.
I don't trust 4870s to stay stable through the amount of heat they generate, but the aftermarket cooler on that card should help at least. Make sure you got a well-ventilated case.
Edit - whatever you buy, make sure the cooler doesn't look like this. It's a fake dual slot solution - the card really doesn't exhaust out the slot.
It seems to have pretty good airflow... 2 120mm intake fans, 1 120mm exhaust. I could also get another 120mm fan and add it to the side panel though that might not do much given that the side sits quite close to the side of the tower cubby in my desk. What would you guys recommend if not the 4870? Keep in mind I'm trying to keep the price tag below 175.
At the time of posting, newegg has it on special for 149.99. Reviews show the GTX 260 to be almost exactly on par with the HD4870 in most applications.
I'm not ruling out the HD4870, either. It has heat problems, true, but if you choose carefully, you should be able to get one with a decent cooler. For example, I'd have more faith in this one than a lot of the others. Many of the ATI-branded manufacturers haven't even bothered with a dual-slot cooler for the 4870, which is rediculous.
Avoid the 4850 / 4870 cards. If you're going in for ATI, pick up either a 4770 or a 4890 configuration. They run significantly cooler...
I concur with the Regal Legume. My 4890 has been very quiet and cool.
I did some searching to see what 3rd Party reviewers were saying about the new 9.8s. It seems the gains only apply to Crossfire setups and particularly those that are CPU limited at lower resolutions.
I don't hate Nvidia. I've owned nothing but Nvidia cards from the first time I built a computer up through now. I'm just fed up with them releasing buggy drivers (Any driver after 176 series causes Mass Effect to crash, all. the. time. for instance) and I was really irked that they took out the ability to do video overlay to a TV. I don't feel comfortable giving my money to a company that is going to do things like that. Thus I'll go with ATI for now until Nvidia gets their act together again.
Unfortunately, ATI's drivers aren't a whole lot better. Catalyst 9.5, for example, completely broke the HD4850's performance in both single and crossfire configs and wasn't fixed until Catalyst 9.6. Crossfire implementation could definitely be done better, too - I experienced a LOT of crash cases due to the infamous PowerPlay bug.
.... crap. Well, I won't be doing Crossfire anyway since my board only has one PCI-E x16 slot... but still, buggy video card drivers, IMO, are simply inexcusable these days. The graphics card is simply too important of a component for these major players to be putting out bug-ridden drivers.
.... crap. Well, I won't be doing Crossfire anyway since my board only has one PCI-E x16 slot... but still, buggy video card drivers, IMO, are simply inexcusable these days. The graphics card is simply too important of a component for these major players to be putting out bug-ridden drivers.
^ Agreed.
For a single card, ATI should be an acceptable configuration. I haven't heard too many complaints from people who use a solo-card config - most of the driver glitches happen when running in crossfired mode.
If you're willing to go just a wee bit over budget though, I really would recommend the HD4890. It runs much cooler than 4850/70, and offers significantly more bang than the 4870 as well. You can pick an HIS one up from newegg for $189.99 today, or $179.99 if you feel like taking advantage of the $10 rebate.
Good to know... guess I'll change my plans from a 4870 to a 4890 instead. I'll just have to delay buying the card a little longer while I save the extra money.
The initial problems with heat and on a related note overclocking for the 4850 and 4870 have long been cured by aftermarket coolers. Almost every HD 4850 and HD 4870 on sale now comes with some form of cooling other than what they initially launched with. My HD overclocked 4850 has never gone over 60C and stays fairly quiet after reducing the fan speed through Catalyst Control Center. Also, sound has never been an issue with the 4850/4870 in single card configurations. One of the reasons they initially ran so hot was because ATI tried to keep noise levels down. Any noise problems with the HD 4870 in Crossfire is likely to increase with the HD 4890 because the stock cooler is actually louder. With the insanely low prices on HD 4870's I wouldn't hesitate to buy one at all right now, they're complete steals. If there were any reason to wait it would be for the HD 58XX series coming in a few months.
Cliff_Forster
Icrontian
Comments
Another $100-200 for your gaming PC getting you an effective 50% performance boost in a game you love, thats a real upgrade. On a console you hampered with half the resolution, reduced detail and jagged edges and with all that the frame rate still jumps around when the action gets heavy. Wish I could slap some more ram or a 2nd video card on the xbox, but I can't, you are stuck with it until Microsoft says its time to move on.
Good thing I don't feel like trying. I'll stick with my GTX 285.
I had a feeling Hydra would never see the light of day one way or another. Knowing now that it is a physical chip just makes it that more obvious.
PS3 Hard drive upgrades. Instructions provided in the PS3 manual. It's a performance upgrade if you use an SSD.
Remember Cliff, not everyone has a massive LCD on their computer desk (even in the IC community). I'm still playing at 1680x1050 which, last time I checked, is a bit lower resolution than my 1920x1080 HDTV. Console games that have 1080 content are running at a HIGHER resolution on the HDTV at that point. And you can't upgrade a console for performance mostly because you don't NEED to. The game is written for that hardware.
All this being said, I'm mainly a PC gamer, and a $100-150 upgrade to dual 4870s would be pretty cool. Unfortunately I'm on an nVidia chipset so I'm "stuck" with my dual 8800 GT 512MB cards.
I'd have to agree with Mertesn. Though the expansion pack cost a bit (I think it was around $60) it was worth it when you saw what games it allowed, such as Perfect Dark. PD was one of my favorite games that gen, had many a great night playing the multiplayer with my brother. That was money well spent.
That said, I hate to say it but I'm switching to ATI. Not really because of the Crossfire gains per se... more because the NVidia drivers, of late, have sucked hard. That and I'm still pissed off that they took out the ability to do video overlay from my 8600 card... I mean C'MON! My GeForce3 could do video overlay!
Edit - or be prepared to potentially spend extra on cooling if you plan to crossfire a 4870 config.
All depends on the cooling you select for your 4850/4870. I'm currently running a Saphire 4870 with the vapor x cooling and I can't load that thing past 58c no matter how hard I try (with the fan manually adjusted of course, but its still quiet)
My experience with the 4850 is that as long as it has some kind of dual slot cooler it will run extremely cool. The original single slot spec on the 4850 was not adequate though.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150394
That is the one I'm looking to upgrade to.
Edit - whatever you buy, make sure the cooler doesn't look like this. It's a fake dual slot solution - the card really doesn't exhaust out the slot.
It seems to have pretty good airflow... 2 120mm intake fans, 1 120mm exhaust. I could also get another 120mm fan and add it to the side panel though that might not do much given that the side sits quite close to the side of the tower cubby in my desk. What would you guys recommend if not the 4870? Keep in mind I'm trying to keep the price tag below 175.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127426
At the time of posting, newegg has it on special for 149.99. Reviews show the GTX 260 to be almost exactly on par with the HD4870 in most applications.
I'm not ruling out the HD4870, either. It has heat problems, true, but if you choose carefully, you should be able to get one with a decent cooler. For example, I'd have more faith in this one than a lot of the others. Many of the ATI-branded manufacturers haven't even bothered with a dual-slot cooler for the 4870, which is rediculous.
I did some searching to see what 3rd Party reviewers were saying about the new 9.8s. It seems the gains only apply to Crossfire setups and particularly those that are CPU limited at lower resolutions.
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,692942/Catalyst-98-reviewed-HD-4870-X2-up-to-47-percent-faster-failing-in-Anno-1404/Practice/
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/2885/ati_catalyst_9_8_vista_driver_analysis/index8.html
^ Agreed.
For a single card, ATI should be an acceptable configuration. I haven't heard too many complaints from people who use a solo-card config - most of the driver glitches happen when running in crossfired mode.
If you're willing to go just a wee bit over budget though, I really would recommend the HD4890. It runs much cooler than 4850/70, and offers significantly more bang than the 4870 as well. You can pick an HIS one up from newegg for $189.99 today, or $179.99 if you feel like taking advantage of the $10 rebate.