HD5850: Amazing powerhouse @ MSRP

lordbeanlordbean Ontario, Canada
edited October 2009 in Hardware
This is a tip for anyone looking into the 5000 series radeon cards for an upgrade.

The HD5850 is literally a chopped version of the HD5870. I bought one holding the suspicion that I could push the clock speeds to or damn near the HD5870 clocks. Turns out, I was right. My HD5850 is completely stable using Core 825MHz / Mem 1200MHz. HD5870 stock is 850 / 1200, and HD5850 stock is 725 / 1000. Considering the HD5850 has nearly as many texture units as the 5870, I believe the 5850 is an amazing buy.
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Comments

  • ObsidianObsidian Michigan Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    How big of an upgrade over your GTX 285 is it when both are overclocked?
  • lordbeanlordbean Ontario, Canada
    edited October 2009
    I haven't tested it in any games yet, but the HD5850 is pulling about 1k more vantage GPU points than the 285 could manage at its highest stable speed.
  • GnomeWizarddGnomeWizardd Member 4 Life Akron, PA Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    Do bar graphs! Bar graphs dont lie!
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    rawr.PNG

    I'm using MSI Afterburner to push the voltage to 1.335 and then using AMD GPU Clock Tool to push the clocks. This is 100% stable for 24 hours in either FurMark or looped Vantage tests.

    This card is smokin; my Q6600 can't keep up in games that aren't fully threaded. Considering I game at 2048x1152, that's pretty impressive.

    EDIT: So yeah, the 5850 is 1.25" shorter, consumes less power, costs less, and eats MHz for breakfast. Currently, I see no reason to go 5870.
  • ObsidianObsidian Michigan Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    You seem to have forgotten the HD 5870 can be overclocked too. Even if you can overclock the HD 5850 close to the 5870's stock speeds they won't be so close once you overclock the HD 5870. That core clock is pretty impressive though.
  • lordbeanlordbean Ontario, Canada
    edited October 2009
    Obsidian wrote:
    You seem to have forgotten the HD 5870 can be overclocked too. Even if you can overclock the HD 5850 close to the 5870's stock speeds they won't be so close once you overclock the HD 5870. That core clock is pretty impressive though.

    I haven't forgotten that at all - but the point here is that the HD5850 and the HD5870 have, at their heart, the same exact chip. This means that whatever speed the HD5870 can attain, the HD5850 should be able to hit or get damn close to as well. Once you have similar clock speeds, the only difference is 1440 vs 1600 shaders (which you will notice, but it's a considerably smaller difference than, say, that between a 4850 and a 4870).
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    I have yet to see a 5870 clocked this high and stable. So far, the 5850 looks to be a better overclocker by 20-30MHz. Granted that doesn't completely close the gap created by the difference in shader count, but when you add that to the things I mentioned above, it gets hard to justify spending $120 more on a 5870 unless you just don't overclock or are willing to pay any price for the best.
  • miragemirage
    edited October 2009
    Obsidian wrote:
    You seem to have forgotten the HD 5870 can be overclocked too. Even if you can overclock the HD 5850 close to the 5870's stock speeds they won't be so close once you overclock the HD 5870. That core clock is pretty impressive though.

    Given that HD 5850 has 1440, HD5870 has 1600 shaders, HD5870@931 matches the performance level of HD5850@1035 at the same memory speed. I assumed that both of them do not saturate the memory bandwidth at the same memory speed.
  • miragemirage
    edited October 2009
    mas0n wrote:
    I have yet to see a 5870 clocked this high and stable. So far, the 5850 looks to be a better overclocker by 20-30MHz. Granted that doesn't completely close the gap created by the difference in shader count, but when you add that to the things I mentioned above, it gets hard to justify spending $120 more on a 5870 unless you just don't overclock or are willing to pay any price for the best.

    That's a very impressive overclock Mason, congrats! How are the temps doing? Can you give a comparison before and after while running furmark? Did you do any trick for better cooling?
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    I'm using the same water block and technique I used here with my 4870 and then 4890. Temps under FurMark load are ~48C. Under regular 3D load (TF2, Crysis, Mass Effect, Batman AA) it never goes over 42C.
  • _k_k P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    http://www.overclock.net/ati/584479-my-xfx-5870-oc-vantage-crysis.html Appears the guy did 1GHz and 1300mem on air.
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    I doubt that his memory is actually stable at 1300MHz without some added voltage. The thing about these GDDR5 ICs is that the built in error correction will prevent the card from displaying artifacts even if the memory is spitting out errors. The controller detects the error and sends the data back through the loop until it comes out correct. To find the highest stable speed you have to adjust slightly and see exactly when your frame rate starts to drop.

    Honestly, I'm not even completely sure that my memory speed is stable. I see diminishing returns starting at 1200, but don't see the frame rate moving in the wrong direction until 1285 or so.

    Fortunately, we're nowhere near saturating the bandwidth, even if you stay ~1100.
  • _k_k P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    Just some quick skimming shows that most people are hitting 950-900 oc for core and most everyone is bumping to 1300 on the mem, on air.
  • lordbeanlordbean Ontario, Canada
    edited October 2009
    I'm not sure how far I want to try and push mine at the moment. I'm using a stock cooler, so I don't know how safe it is to bump the voltage up.
  • _k_k P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    Do you have a game where its getting below 60 fps?
  • lordbeanlordbean Ontario, Canada
    edited October 2009
    mas0n wrote:
    I doubt that his memory is actually stable at 1300MHz without some added voltage. The thing about these GDDR5 ICs is that the built in error correction will prevent the card from displaying artifacts even if the memory is spitting out errors. The controller detects the error and sends the data back through the loop until it comes out correct. To find the highest stable speed you have to adjust slightly and see exactly when your frame rate starts to drop.

    Honestly, I'm not even completely sure that my memory speed is stable. I see diminishing returns starting at 1200, but don't see the frame rate moving in the wrong direction until 1285 or so.

    Fortunately, we're nowhere near saturating the bandwidth, even if you stay ~1100.

    My core crashed @ 850 automatic fan settings and no voltage increase, seems stable @ 825. My mem crashed @ 1250, seemed to run ok at 1225 in furmark with no noticeable performance degredation, I set it to 1200 just to be safe.
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    _k_ wrote:
    Do you have a game where its getting below 60 fps?

    Crysis @ 2048x1152, Very High, 2AA, and unfortunately 32-bit (silly Steam)

    I drop down to ~30 when shit gets crazy.

    Otherwise, no. Everything runs >60 with all settings maxed. Even when forcing 8AA in Batman Arkham Asylum.
  • _k_k P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    That was meant more for bean. But I assume that is with the OC, what is it with stock?
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    I have no idea. Didn't bother.
  • _k_k P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    pfft I thought you were a tech geek.
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    So why would I bother with stock?
  • _k_k P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    Maybe you would write another article like you did for the 4870?
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    I thought about it, but it may be more of a super blog post. I was unhappy with the lack of true comparisons in my 4870 piece. Other than my 4890 and cards from 2+ generations ago, I still don't have anything to compare it to. Maybe I could just put together an overclocking piece?
  • lordbeanlordbean Ontario, Canada
    edited October 2009
    I haven't done enough testing yet to know if I'm losing performance between my OC and stock in any games, although I'm assuming I wouldn't because I didn't see any framerate drop in furmark. I'll have to do some testing with it.

    I'm also really curious to see if I can get my core up higher with a bit of a voltage bump and the fan forced to a higher RPM.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    mas0n wrote:
    I thought about it, but it may be more of a super blog post. I was unhappy with the lack of true comparisons in my 4870 piece. Other than my 4890 and cards from 2+ generations ago, I still don't have anything to compare it to. Maybe I could just put together an overclocking piece?

    Given that there are no competitors in this generation, the only cards you can compare it to are the newest of the previous. That would be the 4890.
  • _k_k P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    I would say you still need to compare it to something, say the stock cooler but since that thing is laying on your desk I assume you didn't do testing with it.

    You could compare it to previous SLi or Crossfire performance, semi-fare.
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    lordbean wrote:
    I haven't done enough testing yet to know if I'm losing performance between my OC and stock in any games, although I'm assuming I wouldn't because I didn't see any framerate drop in furmark. I'll have to do some testing with it.

    I'm also really curious to see if I can get my core up higher with a bit of a voltage bump and the fan forced to a higher RPM.


    Go for it! :rockon:

    Make sure you get v1.2 of MSI Afterburner and v0.9.26 of AMD GPU Clock Tool.
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    lordbean wrote:
    My core crashed @ 850 automatic fan settings and no voltage increase, seems stable @ 825. My mem crashed @ 1250, seemed to run ok at 1225 in furmark with no noticeable performance degredation, I set it to 1200 just to be safe.

    That sounds about right. 825 is where I had to start bumping voltage.
  • lordbeanlordbean Ontario, Canada
    edited October 2009
    mas0n wrote:
    Go for it! :rockon:

    Make sure you get v1.2 of MSI Afterburner and v0.9.26 of AMD GPU Clock Tool.

    Those are actually the tools I've been using, heh. After getting pissed at ATI Overdrive for being too limiting, I did quick research into other options to overclock the card, and came across an article with links to both.
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited October 2009
    Yeah, that's really the only way to go right now, at least until Rivatuner supports the 5xxx series. Oddly enough, MSI Afterburner is just a fluffy UI on top of Rivatuner, but for the life of me I can't find a profile that works with the 5850 in Rivatuner.

    As soon as I find clocks I'm completely happy with, I'm just going to edit the BIOS, I think RBE supports this series already.
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