Wait this got tested against an air cooler with a 92mm fan?
... and still could not beat it.
What were the processor, frequency, and vcore, please?
When you said "running Prime95 fully loaded" on the movie, Speedfan was indicating only one core loaded. You need to run two worker threads for fully loading the dual-core cpu.
The ECO ALC fit like a glove in my Lian Li PC-8B case. A couple things I noticed that you didn't mention in your review:
Those hoses are stiff. The curvature seen in your installation video is literally the most you can get them to bend. I've worked with laboratory hose similar to what other water cooling systems use and it is far more flexible. In my case, my CPU socket is closer to the back panel than yours and I ended up with some extra hose that stuck out the side of the case. I ended up pulling the CPU block out and rotating it a few times to take up the slack. Getting it to seat properly after that was a neat trick.
The manual that came with my ECO stated which motherboard fan headers to use for the radiator fan and pump in really small print that I missed the first time through. The ECO needs the pump on the CPU block plugged into a system fan header and the radiator fan plugged into the CPU fan header. To be honest, their installation documentation sucks in general.
Also, as far as the "EXTREEM COOL" goes, if you want that kind of performance you can always swap the radiator fan for a 120x38 Delta.
I like it because it keeps my machine relatively cool even with my motherboard's speed controls throttling down the pump and radiator fan to extremely quiet levels. The ECO also doesn't impede free access to my memory, graphics card, or power supply which is great for when I want to clean the inside of my PC or help a friend diagnose problems with their PC. Installation wasn't as easy as advertised but it's still easier than trying to secure a 2 kg copper brick to my motherboard and wondering if I'm going to crack something. To say anything useful about its actual performance for comparison with other coolers would require laboratory testing.
The inaccuracies in this article have been corrected. All coolers have been retested with OCCT's Linpack test, and the article now describes the CPU they were tested on.
Do we have any idea what the ambient temperature was because the classic problem with small rads is once the air temp gets around 80F they just plain suck? And tsk tsk on bobby for not using OCCT in the first place, or folding SMP client.
First of all - nice review. Well spoken guy and good editing, it was nice to read and watch.
I've been with CoolIT over 3 years now and have watched the popularity, acceptance and understand of our products go up continually but still they are a bit misunderstood.
It's easy to have a tendancy to compare our sealed systems to full blown DIY water but thats not really where ECO lives... its as you've seen actually much more of a heatsink that is quieter and better for your motherboard as drasnor has said. It happens to use water to tranfer the heat from point a to b. To that end we don't position or price ECO to compete with DIY water loops so you shouldn't be disapointed if you don't get that kind of performance.
Regarding the installation, as Bobby points out - the issue is as much w/ the case as it is the cooler. Little bit of homework in case selection never hurts no matter what cooler you are using. We are ok with that though as the compatibilty for ECO is really high.
Icrontic, I really appreciate your work and hope you don't take my feedback the wrong way. I think I gushed over your Domino review too last year.. you guys are on the ball
Quick question - did you have the pump and the fan plugged into regulated motherboard headers?
You should not regulate the pump (12v only in the manual) but can regulate the fan if you wish or let it blow at 12v for better performance, its still not loud as its throttled to 1800rpm.
I was a little dissapointed by the performance #'s so just kinda trying to figure ut why.
Thanks for taking the time to come chat with us on Icrontic. We're always happy to talk with industry folk, and even happier when they stop by for open dialogue.
I've poked Bobby to make sure he sees your post, and I'm sure he can answer your question(s).
The CPU is a 2.2 GHz dual-core. It is not giving sufficient challenge to the coolers to differentiate the better one. Additionally, the video still shows one of the cores idle, see below.
My Pleasure Thrax, I love what I do and firmly believe that as CPU's and GPU's keep getting hotter than sealed liquid systems represent the future of keeping them cool. Heatsinks can only get sooo big before we'll be putting the case inside the heatsink
Now there is an idea!
Looking forward to Bobby's feedback on the fan / pump config.
I will say from experience that coolers are the hardest thing to evaluate. Even a mild variation in thermal compound, or installation pressure, room temps, case airflow, BIOS controls for the fans, anything can impact the performance.
I just reinstalled my cooler master hyper 520 after a motherboard RMA, and it performs at least 20% better than it did, I thought it was hunk of junk before, now I kind of dig it. Why? I'm not 100% sure? I just reinstalled it, and suddenly it cools better, probably just a small variation in how it got installed the 2nd time that improved contact with the CPU, but honestly, who knows?
Point being, cooler reviews are a tricky business loaded with variation from install to install. If you compare sites for various coolers you will notice major differences despite similar testing methods on certain models, its just the nature of the beast. Coolers are extremely hard to evaluate consistently.
I just reinstalled my cooler master hyper 520 after a motherboard RMA, and it performs at least 20% better than it did, I thought it was hunk of junk before, now I kind of dig it. Why? I'm not 100% sure? I just reinstalled it, and suddenly it cools better, probably just a small variation in how it got installed the 2nd time that improved contact with the CPU, but honestly, who knows?
Did you reapply your thermal compound? That could make the entire difference. The stuff does occasionally need to be reapplied.
I did have the ECO pump and fan installed into the correct headers. The fan went into the CPU header, and the pump was plugged directly to the PSU. I did double check that to be sure. That being said, my motherboard sucks. And my powersupply sucks. ...among other things. It's a situation that's being remedied as I type this.
The last two weeks have presented me with very interesting challenges regarding my motherboard and powersupply. There is a chance that the ECO wasn't getting the appropriate voltage to some degree on account of the motherboard or PSU. It wouldn't be the first time that my system has given me trouble in such a way.
And Mirage, Thrax is correct. I was unable to re-shoot the video after I fixed the testing issues. That quick segment serves inaccurate, but the actual data you see in the review is correct with both cores being push to 100%.
Nice review, Bobby. Loved the video you made - while long, it felt like it went quickly. That was likely due to the tight editing to remove any slow parts like screwing things in, etc. Every second was important.
Though I do have to wonder what the cooling potential would be if you did another test with some nice thermal paste, like Arctic Silver.
Finally, regarding Cliff's comments, I agree that there is a lot of variance that can go into a cooler's review. But there still is a lot of truth in this review as it still shows the hardware and any headaches that may arise during the install phase. Plus the numbers, while they should not be taken as gospel, reflect his "real world" results - they still have some value.
To be clear, I don't mean to question Bobby in any way, I'm just saying that variation in cooler evaluations tend to be par for the course. The only way to know for sure is to take it apart, re test, then test again on another platform, then re test it some more.
Also, keep in mind, if that is a poly synthetic silver compound, you will not get a good thermal bond for a few days. You should load it, let it cool overnight, load it, then let it cool overnight again, repeat for a week. It sucks, but that stuff takes time to cure properly. Given time to properly cure, I have seen temps drop as much as 6 or 7 centigrade in some applications.
So, if you had your air heat-sink with compound that has cured properly, then tested the ECO as soon as you popped it in, that could be a source of some variation.
Those numbers on the graph were from having the ECO installed for three or four days. I initially ran tests the day I installed it, but when we needed to re-test with OCCT, I grabbed numbers from the ECO before removing it and dropping in the others. It did score better than it had before, so I think the compound was doing its thing.
You raise some really good points Cliff - i've discussed the inherit variables from one test to another at length on some forums. Unfortunately until we can reach a more standardized platform within the industry, we'll continue to face these challenges.
That said - I don't have a problem with the Icrontic methodology at all, a good test done by good testers and we'll be sending them more of our products in the future.
i just installed my eco alc and it just looks like the pump isn't working at all, the cpu heats up to 85 in a couple of minutes. im sure ive connected every thing checked the thermal paste and changed it also.. tghitned it aswell. But nothing, any help plss??
UPSLynx
:KAPPA:Redwood City, CA Icrontian
Comments
... and still could not beat it.
What were the processor, frequency, and vcore, please?
When you said "running Prime95 fully loaded" on the movie, Speedfan was indicating only one core loaded. You need to run two worker threads for fully loading the dual-core cpu.
Those hoses are stiff. The curvature seen in your installation video is literally the most you can get them to bend. I've worked with laboratory hose similar to what other water cooling systems use and it is far more flexible. In my case, my CPU socket is closer to the back panel than yours and I ended up with some extra hose that stuck out the side of the case. I ended up pulling the CPU block out and rotating it a few times to take up the slack. Getting it to seat properly after that was a neat trick.
The manual that came with my ECO stated which motherboard fan headers to use for the radiator fan and pump in really small print that I missed the first time through. The ECO needs the pump on the CPU block plugged into a system fan header and the radiator fan plugged into the CPU fan header. To be honest, their installation documentation sucks in general.
Also, as far as the "EXTREEM COOL" goes, if you want that kind of performance you can always swap the radiator fan for a 120x38 Delta.
First of all - nice review. Well spoken guy and good editing, it was nice to read and watch.
I've been with CoolIT over 3 years now and have watched the popularity, acceptance and understand of our products go up continually but still they are a bit misunderstood.
It's easy to have a tendancy to compare our sealed systems to full blown DIY water but thats not really where ECO lives... its as you've seen actually much more of a heatsink that is quieter and better for your motherboard as drasnor has said. It happens to use water to tranfer the heat from point a to b. To that end we don't position or price ECO to compete with DIY water loops so you shouldn't be disapointed if you don't get that kind of performance.
Regarding the installation, as Bobby points out - the issue is as much w/ the case as it is the cooler. Little bit of homework in case selection never hurts no matter what cooler you are using. We are ok with that though as the compatibilty for ECO is really high.
Icrontic, I really appreciate your work and hope you don't take my feedback the wrong way. I think I gushed over your Domino review too last year.. you guys are on the ball
Quick question - did you have the pump and the fan plugged into regulated motherboard headers?
You should not regulate the pump (12v only in the manual) but can regulate the fan if you wish or let it blow at 12v for better performance, its still not loud as its throttled to 1800rpm.
I was a little dissapointed by the performance #'s so just kinda trying to figure ut why.
Cheers!
Thanks for taking the time to come chat with us on Icrontic. We're always happy to talk with industry folk, and even happier when they stop by for open dialogue.
I've poked Bobby to make sure he sees your post, and I'm sure he can answer your question(s).
Cheers!
Now there is an idea!
Looking forward to Bobby's feedback on the fan / pump config.
Cheers!
I just reinstalled my cooler master hyper 520 after a motherboard RMA, and it performs at least 20% better than it did, I thought it was hunk of junk before, now I kind of dig it. Why? I'm not 100% sure? I just reinstalled it, and suddenly it cools better, probably just a small variation in how it got installed the 2nd time that improved contact with the CPU, but honestly, who knows?
Point being, cooler reviews are a tricky business loaded with variation from install to install. If you compare sites for various coolers you will notice major differences despite similar testing methods on certain models, its just the nature of the beast. Coolers are extremely hard to evaluate consistently.
Thanks for dropping us a line!
I did have the ECO pump and fan installed into the correct headers. The fan went into the CPU header, and the pump was plugged directly to the PSU. I did double check that to be sure. That being said, my motherboard sucks. And my powersupply sucks. ...among other things. It's a situation that's being remedied as I type this.
The last two weeks have presented me with very interesting challenges regarding my motherboard and powersupply. There is a chance that the ECO wasn't getting the appropriate voltage to some degree on account of the motherboard or PSU. It wouldn't be the first time that my system has given me trouble in such a way.
And Mirage, Thrax is correct. I was unable to re-shoot the video after I fixed the testing issues. That quick segment serves inaccurate, but the actual data you see in the review is correct with both cores being push to 100%.
Though I do have to wonder what the cooling potential would be if you did another test with some nice thermal paste, like Arctic Silver.
Finally, regarding Cliff's comments, I agree that there is a lot of variance that can go into a cooler's review. But there still is a lot of truth in this review as it still shows the hardware and any headaches that may arise during the install phase. Plus the numbers, while they should not be taken as gospel, reflect his "real world" results - they still have some value.
That's for the review, Bobby!
Also, keep in mind, if that is a poly synthetic silver compound, you will not get a good thermal bond for a few days. You should load it, let it cool overnight, load it, then let it cool overnight again, repeat for a week. It sucks, but that stuff takes time to cure properly. Given time to properly cure, I have seen temps drop as much as 6 or 7 centigrade in some applications.
So, if you had your air heat-sink with compound that has cured properly, then tested the ECO as soon as you popped it in, that could be a source of some variation.
That said - I don't have a problem with the Icrontic methodology at all, a good test done by good testers and we'll be sending them more of our products in the future.
Cheers!
Barry