Time for a new system

Yantor

Hey guys, I have a system that is starting to show it's age...it's ripe old age of 4-5 years. Still good enough to do what it does (3D animation and high-end gaming) but I think it's time for an upgrade.

Here's the current specs to the best of my knowledge:
ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Motherboard
3.01 GHz AMD Athlon 64 x2 Dual Core Processor
4 GB some sort of DDR2 RAM
Nvidia Quadro FX 3800 (this does not need upgrading)
Maxtor 7 SCSI 250Gb SATA

Don't know off-hand what sort of PSU I have, but I know it puts out 500 or more watts. So I think it will suffice.

Here's the stuff I have been looking to replace it with:
Gigabyte AM3 AMD 790X ATX Motherboard
AMD Phenom II x4 995 3.2Ghz Proc
Kingston HyperX DDR3 SDRAM

I've looked at hard drives and heatsinks but am not 100% sure for either...any advice? I'm trying to keep the upgrade down to under $1000.

primesuspect

It's really worth checking the brand and model of your PSU. You may "think" it will suffice, but that's not something worth leaving to guesswork.

Yantor

Ugh, a look inside my case reveals that the PSU info can't be seen without pulling the whole unit. I am pretty sure that it is a 500+ wattage, since I bought it when my system went past my older unit.

primesuspect

It doesn't matter what wattage it is. It may be an older model that doesn't have the proper connectors for modern motherboards and video cards, or it may not have enough amperage per rail for a quad-core machine, etc.

You're asking our advice, and I'm giving you rock solid advice. I HIGHLY recommend you know what PSU you currently have to make sure it's adequate for any upgrades.

Yantor

Excellent points that I hadn't thought about. I have a BFG Tech 650W power supply. This to be exact. I'm not sure what the relevant specs are beyond the 20+4 pin mobo connector and the 6-pin PCI-E connector.

Cliff_Forster

40 amps total on the 12 volt rails will get you there with some reasonable reserve. Realistically you might draw 50 watts more under load than you are now. Now keep in mind, thats if your running stock voltages and either stock clocks, or a real modest over-clock. Also keep in mind that your power supply has aged a bit, and with that there can be some loss in efficiency, especially when we are talking a machine that sounds like its used with some frequency.

So, must you get a new PSU, no, not at all, should you, maybe.... Its unfortunate, but there just is not a great way to measure exactly how your PSU has held up without the aid of some expensive equipment. You can test the voltage readings and see if they are stable, you can measure the thermal output at the source to see that its not overheating, but other than that you just kind take an educated guess. Is it louder that usual, an unexplained sudden crashes (more than an isolated incident), if not, its probably fine, or at least as good as it needs to be.

By the way, the Phenom II X4 955 is an amazing deal at $159. With the right cooling you might be able to over-clock it heavily. Keep in mind, depending on your work flow there are six core Phenom II cpu's now. I'm not sure what applications you us for 3D animation and if the workload tends to be more CPU, or GPU intensive, but that might be a consideration.

Yantor

Time for a nerd-fail admission- I've never overclocked a system.

I use Maya for my 3D stuff. On the subject of overclocking and specifically cooling...since my current board and chip are AM2 socket, and my upgrade is to AM3, I'll need a new heatsink. I've looked at a few (bricks, blocks, and bigger bricks) and can't really judge what's best. The last heatsink I bought was chosen because it was the ONLY model I could find that fit on the M2N32-SLI deluxe motherboard because of the build in, unique (read: annoying) copper heatsinks around the motherboard so I am unsure as to the best brand(s) or shape of headsink.

Cliff_Forster

First off, if you have a really good AM2 heatsink that you want to roll over to AM3 you can. Sockets are 100% compatible (thanks AMD!)

The retail box heatsink that AMD throws you is actually surprisingly decent. Its not an over-clockers model, but, if your content with the stock speed its fine. You have to work the bios a bit to get the fan defaults tamed some because it can be really loud, but its a four pin, pwm controlled so you can tame it and keep temps reasonable.

If your looking for the best over-clocks on air I know many guys will swear by the Thermalright 120 and the big Noctua NH-D14. Im currently using a Cooler Master Hyper N520 that I won online. Good cooling, dual fans, but the installation pain really leaves me with reservations. Personally, I like the ease of installation of the Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 pro (I've used it in several builds). I think its in the sweet spot for price and cooling on AMD's platform. Its not the most aggressive cooler, there are direct touch pipe models that will get you an extra few degrees of your temps and thus a better over-clock, but the AC Freezer 64 pro is a nice balance of price, ease of install, fairly quiet and solid thermals. Its been around forever, its a tried and true design that just plain works on that socket.

So, there is no one size fits all easy answer. If you will pay anything and don't mind a little installation headache get a big heavy tower heat-sink with a pair of 120 mm fans, its going give you the best temps and overclocks. Price and installation matter, but you want something effective and reasonably quiet, I'd consider the Freezer 64 pro, (make sure its the pwm 4 pin model). Over-clocking not a big concern, don't care if its a bit loud? Save your money and try the cooler in the retail box. It has a cooper base and a pair of heat pipes. Its easy to install, cools respectably, but is a little loud and will limit your over-clocks.

Yantor

Thanks for the advice. I take it my choice of board, core, and ram are good, since they've not been commented on...

adarryl

I think you will be quite happy with the core components you have selected. Just make sure you order the 955 you linked to which is a C3 processor and not the C2 model which is also available at NewEgg. The C3 overclocks better than the C2. Even though you said you are not experienced with overclocking, you may want to play with it. I have the 955 C3 in one of my builds and am running it at 3.88 GHz with no problem. The heatsink I am using is this one by Scythe: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185096

I especially like the way the riser leans away from the RAM modules once installed on the motherboard. That is important if you use RAM that has tall heatsinks like mine (Patriot). If you stay with the Kingston you listed, however, that won't be a consideration.

Yantor

Thanks for all the advice guys. One last, sort of minor, query.

Standard vs Micro-ATX? One of the things I dislike about my current machine in a very passive aggressive way is the size- I have an Antec P130 case and it is both big and heavy. I'd love to get a smaller case, and that almost invariably means a smaller form factor. However, between a beefy, potentially overclocked processor, lots of ram, and a performance graphics card (which will barely fit), I'm concerned about cooling. Would this really be an issue? Is it worth the space saved to go to micro ATX?

Thanks.

Cliff_Forster

Yantor wrote:

Thanks for all the advice guys. One last, sort of minor, query.

Standard vs Micro-ATX? One of the things I dislike about my current machine in a very passive aggressive way is the size- I have an Antec P130 case and it is both big and heavy. I'd love to get a smaller case, and that almost invariably means a smaller form factor. However, between a beefy, potentially overclocked processor, lots of ram, and a performance graphics card (which will barely fit), I'm concerned about cooling. Would this really be an issue? Is it worth the space saved to go to micro ATX?

Thanks.

Some Micro ATX cases cool well. I really like the Antec mini P180. My two cents though, we are talking a few inches of vertical space. I'd say its nor really worth the potential sacrifice for someone like you. You just seem like the type of user that might want to have that flexibility to add an expansion card, or another graphics card, or perhaps a drive array that would benefit from the extra space of a full ATX form factor. Unless space is really a premium, unless you absolutely need it back for some reason, I'd just re build in your old case if it serves you well.

Yantor

A'right, thanks for all the advice. The order has been placed. My system will have double the ram, triple the processor speed (I ended up going with a 6 core), and quadruple the HD space. All for under $1000. Thanks again!

photodude

are you Really Sure you want to stick with AMD for doing 3D maya?
From all the reviews and test I have seen the AMD 940 is 10 plus seconds slower for every process in maya vs the i7-920. (although not an exact match with the 955 your looking at) shaving 10 seconds off all your tasks adds up quickly to better work or more jobs out the door.

I made a similar upgrade about 8 months ago, I'm now wishing I had waited and switched to an i7.

Yantor

I'm not sure I understand your comparison correctly. You sat the AMD 940 is 10+ seconds slower for every process in Maya than the i7-920. I read that and immediately thought it means it takes ten seconds longer to do anything in Maya, which doesn't read right. I assume by process you mean computationally heavier things, such as dynamics or other CPU dependent operations?

As it stands, I went with the AMD Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2GHz, since I didn't want my new PSU to cost more than my processor.

ardichoke

You should be fine. The 1090T is a beast of a processor and, from the benchmarks I've seen, pulls damn close to the i7 in most benchmarks at a significantly lower price.

mirage

I have seen many flawed benchmarks of Phenom II X6. Some of the reviewers tested Phenom ii X6 with 4 threads. Check this review for example; X6 1090T is slower than X4 965. When all six cores are utilized in a similar test, like in this review, 1090T is on par with i7 930 and definitely faster than X4 965.

photodude

Yantor, Your assumption is closer to what I meant, and from the review that Mirage posted the time gap is a little less for CPU intense tasks. The 1090T looks to be about 6 seconds slower on 3d visualization tasks but is only off 1second on rendering. Although that is a composite average over several programs and not a maya specific benchmark result. We should also take into account that some of that difference would be offset by your Quadro FX 3800.

based on a different benchmark the 1090T is only around 2 seconds slower for 3d modeling (again not maya specific)

after rereviewing the benchmarks I would say it's a decent value processor that will tow it's weight without an unacceptable difference in time productivity.

If the budget could afford it the Intel Xeon X5680 rules the roost; being over 20 seconds faster for 3d modeling and 3d visualization tasks then all other processors benchmarked in the iXBT tests. But that CPU runs $1,730 so I guess you get what you pay for.