Disappearing Optical Drives - WIN XP

Telecorder

Telecorder (TechnicalUser) Jan 25, 2004
Newbie w/ a perplexing problem. :banghead: Basic story is continuing to have CD-RW & DVD-ROM fail to respond within timeout period and then disappear from system. Reboot resets drives only to eventually timeout again. :bawling: Have a P-4 1.6GHz, 512 MB RAM D845BG Mobo. To shorten post, see full background problem/attemped diagnostics/system details posted on another site: http://forums.rojakpot.com/viewtopic.php?t=7574

Any insight/assistance appreciated.

Telecorder

profdlp

Sounds like your IDE channels might have dropped to PIO mode, instead of DMA. (This is a "feature" in WinXP.)

Go into device manager and look at the Primary and Secondary IDE channels. Under the advanced tab, see what mode you're in. If it says PIO you'll need to uninstall the drives and let Windows find them again (resetting it to DMA if available won't do it).

If WinXP has trouble reading a disc more than a couple times it permanently lowers the mode to PIO. Uninstalling and reinstalling the drives is the only way to get a fresh start. Once the drives have been re-detected, you may have to go back and manually set the "DMA if available" option.

Hope this helps!

Enverex

prof: That would explain slowdowns, but not complete stops or dissapearances of the drives...

Telecorder

profdlp wrote:

Sounds like your IDE channels might have dropped to PIO mode, instead of DMA. (This is a "feature" in WinXP.)

Go into device manager and look at the Primary and Secondary IDE channels. Under the advanced tab, see what mode you're in. If it says PIO you'll need to uninstall the drives and let Windows find them again (resetting it to DMA if available won't do it).

If WinXP has trouble reading a disc more than a couple times it permanently lowers the mode to PIO. Uninstalling and reinstalling the drives is the only way to get a fresh start. Once the drives have been re-detected, you may have to go back and manually set the "DMA if available" option.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the reply. As Enverex indicated: prof: That would explain slowdowns, but not complete stops or dissapearances of the drives. I have to agree.

I've since fought some of the tentacles of the cable monster and popped open the case. I dusted and checked all of the connectors etc. None were loose. I did notice that the CD-RW was in the middle of the Secondary cable with the DVD at the end. Device Manager has always reported the CD-RW as the Secondary Master and the DVD as the Secondary Slave. From what I've read in other posts, the Master should always be at the end of the cable.

Based on others' suggestions, I disconnected the cable fully, reset into sockets, disconnected the DVD drive and relocated the CD-RW to the end of the cable to try and isolate if its either the cable or one of the optical drives.

I just rebooted and went online and found your reply. Since my Device Manager Properties window for the Primary & Secondary IDE Channels doesn't give me a tab for Advanced (only drivers and Resources), I used IAA. It reflects that the Secondary Master CD-ROM is set for UDMA-2; Transfer Mode - No Limit. It does reflect a 40-pin Conductor cable yet its on an 80-pin cable as is the Hard Drive (In the past, I checked the BIOS and it reports it as an 80-pin :shakehead . So far, no Event Errors showing timeout failures on just the CD-RW. In past episodes, I never saw where XP had down sized the transfer settings, but, then again, I wasn't looking for it.

While I was inside the case, I confirmed that I have a 250W power supply. I'll leave the DVD disconnected for a while to see if anything reoccurs. Needless to say, this is an ongoing quest and I'll make sure to apprise of any changes with updates. Thanks to all who have responded so far.

Telecorder

profdlp

Telecorder wrote:

...Since my Device Manager Properties window for the Primary & Secondary IDE Channels doesn't give me a tab for Advanced (only drivers and Resources)...

Telecorder

Have you tried different IDE Controller Drivers? I don't know why that tab would be missing...

Also, your idea of trying to isolate which drive may be causing the problem sounds like a good one. You might look for a firmware upgrade for the stinker, if you narrow it down to just one of the drives.

If none of that works, see what Burner software loads on startup (if any). Try reinstalling it. Also, is your Anti-Virus stuff up-to-date?

Telecorder

profdlp wrote:

Have you tried different IDE Controller Drivers? I don't know why that tab would be missing...

Also, your idea of trying to isolate which drive may be causing the problem sounds like a good one. You might look for a firmware upgrade for the stinker, if you narrow it down to just one of the drives.

If none of that works, see what Burner software loads on startup (if any). Try reinstalling it. Also, is your Anti-Virus stuff up-to-date?

I've installed the latest Intel drivers from their site with the same issues and then went back and had the Device Manager look and install the latest drivers on the PC for the Controller and the Primary/Secondary. -- Same Issues. Windows currently has loaded, per the Driver Tab info, its Intel 2.3.0.2160 version (yet clicking the details show 2.2.0.2126)

I've upgraded the Mobo, BIOS and drives' firmware to the most current. Win XP has all of the SP1 and latest updates. I've ran a current signature McAfee Virus Scan on all files/folders with nothing reported/found. I always have the Freedom Firewall and Anti Virus on when I'm logged on to my AOL DSL. the only Burner software I have is XP's IMAPI CD-Burner COM which starts and stops.

So far, it appears as though disconnecting the DVD from the system is progressing well. No Event Errors or disappearing CD-RW drive Unless the bug is I went back and burned a small file to the CD-RW, read it and erased it OK.

I tried running SiSoft Sandra but none of my CDs apparently have any data that it likes for it to run a test.

I went back and reviewed the 2,515 Event Viewer logs and it seems as though it was always the CD-RW that 'disappeared' first followed by the DVD. Sometimes the Error alternated between P1T0L0 and P1T0L0, but it was always the CD-RW going bye-bye first. Not sure if that is any indication of anything, just interesting.

When I had the system set without IAA and set for a standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller w/ window drivers, it had the same issues, the Error logs indicated it was always the idePort1 that was failing to respond.

I'll leave the PC on overnite to see what happens given time.


As always thanks for the continued offered insights/suggestions..

Telecorder

profdlp

Intel has a troubleshooting page which may be of help. Looks like you've done some of it already.

BTW - you deserve a prize for being very well organized and detailed in your description of the problem. :thumbup

We get lots of posts that say "My drive doesn't work, can you help me?" Then we have to drag the details out of them bit by bit. :rolleyes2

Telecorder

profdlp wrote:

Intel has a troubleshooting page which may be of help. Looks like you've done some of it already.

BTW - you deserve a prize for being very well organized and detailed in your description of the problem. :thumbup

We get lots of posts that say "My drive doesn't work, can you help me?" Then we have to drag the details out of them bit by bit. :rolleyes2

Yep, been there, done that The only thing I haven't tried from Intel's list is to swap the 80-pin cables between the Hard Drive and the Secondary with the opticals... yet. So far, the lack of the DVD is playing out well I'd really like to get it resolved so I can put the office back together and the cable monster out of sight :bigggrin:

Thanks for the Kudos on the details. As you've surmised, I've been doing a lot of Google searches for any and all sites that might have an answer.

Tex

Telecorder wrote:

Telecorder (TechnicalUser) Jan 25, 2004
Newbie w/ a perplexing problem. :banghead: Basic story is continuing to have CD-RW & DVD-ROM fail to respond within timeout period and then disappear from system. Reboot resets drives only to eventually timeout again. :bawling: Have a P-4 1.6GHz, 512 MB RAM D845BG Mobo. To shorten post, see full background problem/attemped diagnostics/system details posted on another site: http://forums.rojakpot.com/viewtopic.php?t=7574

Any insight/assistance appreciated.

Telecorder

Do you have all the devices set to cable select? If not set every ide device you have anywhere to cable select and reboot. Don't set them to master/slave unless they are pretty old. With cable select they alwasy set themselves to wherever they are plugged in.

Takes a lot of the possible probs out of the picture. The reason it reports 40 pin cables is 99 percent of the cd and dvd players can not operate faster then udma33 (udma mode 2) which does not utilize or recognize a 80 pin cable.

ginipig

What are your system specs by the way? i.e Mobo, Optical Drives, etc

I'll try to do a lil research on the topic.

QCH

Have you updated or upgraded Roxio? There is a well known problem with Roxio and the upper and lower filters in the registry. A quick edit of the registry and reboot and everything works. I wrote a quick VB Script to fix the problem since none of my user and fellow Windows Techs like to mess with the registry.

Telecorder

Tex wrote:

Do you have all the devices set to cable select? If not set every ide device you have anywhere to cable select and reboot. Don't set them to master/slave unless they are pretty old. With cable select they alwasy set themselves to wherever they are plugged in.

Takes a lot of the possible probs out of the picture. The reason it reports 40 pin cables is 99 percent of the cd and dvd players can not operate faster then udma33 (udma mode 2) which does not utilize or recognize a 80 pin cable.

Thanks for the reply and suggestions. The system came with a full setup with the drives installed so I assume they probably have the jumpers set for Master/Slave configurations since I found the CD-RW at mid-cable and the DVD at the end. I haven't physically removed them from the case; just disconnected the cable and replugged the CD-RW to the end and left the DVD off. From what I've read, it usually best to have the Master set at the cable end. True?

Thus far, the system went overnight without any incidents. My next plan is to physically swap the position of the devices to facilitate connecting the CD-RW at the end with the DVD at mid-cable. At this time I'll check to see if the jumpers are set.

I'm unsure about setting the devices for cable select - is this set by the jumpers? The drives are from about 2001.

One of the suggestions from the folks at the BIOS forum http://forums.rojakpot.com/viewtopic.php?p=84367#84367 suggested that the BIOS work around that Intel referred to in their erratum udate may be to enable the BIOS PCI Delay if the PCI devices aren't PCI 2.1 compliant. I just need to determine where I can verify if they are or are not.

At least I'm making some progress, the CD-RW is sticking around

Oh yeah, many thanks for pointing out the 'non-detect' of the cable... makes sense

I'll repost and update all as circumstances change...


Telecorder

Telecorder

ginipig wrote:

What are your system specs by the way? i.e Mobo, Optical Drives, etc

I'll try to do a lil research on the topic.

As I indicated in my original posting -- Have a P-4 1.6GHz, 512 MB RAM D845BG Mobo. To shorten post, see full background problem/attemped diagnostics/system details posted on another site: http://forums.rojakpot.com/viewtopic.php?t=7574

The drives are Lite-On LTR-24102B w/ 5S5A latest Firmware; the DVD is JMLS XJ-HD163 w/ GH5Y latest Firmware.

Thanks for any assistance/insight you might come up with. As you'll see in reviewing my previous posts, I've done a fair amount of self-help research, as well


Telecorder

Telecorder

QCH2002 wrote:

Have you updated or upgraded Roxio? There is a well known problem with Roxio and the upper and lower filters in the registry. A quick edit of the registry and reboot and everything works. I wrote a quick VB Script to fix the problem since none of my user and fellow Windows Techs like to mess with the registry.

Not positive if I have Roxio; only burning software installed/used is standard XP IMAPI CD-Burning COM.

Telecorder

Straight_Man

One thing a lot of OEM burning software folks do is push a CD-RW driver when the OEM Burning software is installed. So, even if you do not use it, having it there might help define device timings so you get less of a timeout thing. I get less timeouts on client XP boxes if I leave the OEM software bundled with the drive installed even if not used.

One thing to try-- pull the Intel IDE driver pack, if you want to use no OEM software. USe a version made closer to when you got board, as newer verisons were timed for ICH4 and ICH5 gen chipsets. If you are not using the Intel AGP driver, pull it also(this last would have to be an experiment plus test).

I cannot stably run the latest Intel driver sets on an ICH2 board, and Intel AA prior to version 2 does not work. South bridge on your chipset is often the ICH2, and there were one HECK of a lot of SB related bios fixes posted, also for GV series. The newer ICHs were hard fixes for what you have and other issues, whihc is why youi see come rev two boards with same NB as you have and ICH4 SBs. Sorry, but OEM drivers would possibly help, for the removable optical drive issue. I have broken more opticals by uninstalling the burning software unless the same software publisher's better grade software was installed than you can shake a stick at(LOTS, in other words). Essentially what happens, is if you have no OEM software on board, the inf file for the CD-RW does not get pushed, and XP can then decide to treat the drive as a CD-ROM, which is PIO\DMA driven typically as far as XP handles things for that one drive type. Drive drops to very slow mode, then drive gets lost as a burner.

One thing that does help here, is to run no HD on same channel as the removable, sometimes. And my burner that works on an ICH2 board uses a 40 conductor cable also, and hooking a TDK to an 80 condustor gets your symptoms in XP and limited amnounts of common sysmptoms on 98 SE also. Curiously, my AMD chipset board also is more stable for burning in XP with the OEM software installed than when it is not installed, and this is burner OEM bundled software I am talking about.

John.

Telecorder

Ageek wrote:

One thing a lot of OEM burning software folks do is push a CD-RW driver when the OEM Burning software is installed. So, even if you do not use it, having it there might help define device timings so you get less of a timeout thing. I get less timeouts on client XP boxes if I leave the OEM software bundled with the drive installed even if not used.

One thing to try-- pull the Intel IDE driver pack, if you want to use no OEM software. USe a version made closer to when you got board, as newer verisons were timed for ICH4 and ICH5 gen chipsets. If you are not using the Intel AGP driver, pull it also(this last would have to be an experiment plus test).

I cannot stably run the latest Intel driver sets on an ICH2 board, and Intel AA prior to version 2 does not work. South bridge on your chipset is often the ICH2, and there were one HECK of a lot of SB related bios fixes posted, also for GV series. The newer ICHs were hard fixes for what you have and other issues, whihc is why youi see come rev two boards with same NB as you have and ICH4 SBs. Sorry, but OEM drivers would possibly help, for the removable optical drive issue. I have broken more opticals by uninstalling the burning software unless the same software publisher's better grade software was installed than you can shake a stick at(LOTS, in other words). Essentially what happens, is if you have no OEM software on board, the inf file for the CD-RW does not get pushed, and XP can then decide to treat the drive as a CD-ROM, which is PIO\DMA driven typically as far as XP handles things for that one drive type. Drive drops to very slow mode, then drive gets lost as a burner.

One thing that does help here, is to run no HD on same channel as the removable, sometimes. And my burner that works on an ICH2 board uses a 40 conductor cable also, and hooking a TDK to an 80 condustor gets your symptoms in XP and limited amnounts of common sysmptoms on 98 SE also. Curiously, my AMD chipset board also is more stable for burning in XP with the OEM software installed than when it is not installed, and this is burner OEM bundled software I am talking about.

John.

I haven't installed any Burning software; just using the standard windows IMAPI CD-Burning COM. As for the chip software, the PC manufacture links to the Intel site for their upgraded software based on the installed Mobo/chipset. The intel software updated reflects updates for the D845BG Mobo as:
VPR-MB100 Intel Motherboard D845BGL/LABEBGSTD2
VPR-GC100 VisionTek TNT2 VANTA M64 32MB Graphics Card
VPR-KB100 Logitech 104-key Keyboard 967060-0403
VPR-MS100 Logitech Optical Scrolling Mouse BD69

w/ the following:
Windows XP* Drivers
INF: Intel 82801BA ICH2 3.20.1008 1.49 MB 10 Oct 2001
IDE: Intel Application Accelerator 2.2.2.2150 1.93 MB 17 Mar 2003
Integrated Audio: ADI 1885 5.12.01.3045d 25.6 MB 24 Jul 2002
LAN: Intel 82562ET 5.1.3 7.89 MB 28 Jan 2002
USB: USB 2.0 5.1.2600.0 1.08 MB 08 Apr 2002

I've installed all of the above except for the LAN updates; The USB update won't install since the D845BG Mobo is only configured for USB 1.1 w/o USB 2.0 capabilities

The HD is set up on its own 80-pin cable by itself. The opticals are on their own 80-pin IDE Secondary cable. As I indicated in previous updated post, I currently have the CD-RW set up as Secondary Master at the cable-end with the DVD disconnected; so far, no issues. :Rocker:

I intend to go back in and swap physical positions of the DVD CD-RW in the case to allow me to check the jumper settings and facilitate the CD-RW as Secondary Master at the end of the IDE cable (The CD-RW was plugged as Secondary Master at mid-cable). Since the systems worked for 2+ years, I assume its an issue with the Mobo/BIOS/Chipset updates but time will tell when I plug the DVD back into the system.

I haven't had any issues with the system trying to lower the DMA settings. I did this after looking at the intel site detailing some work arounds w/o any success. I currently have IAA installed and it reports the stand-alone CD-RW as set for UDMA-2.

When I have the occassion to reboot, I'll check to see if the PCI Latency is set to enable as some have suggested to allow for a longer timeout that may be the issue.

I'll repost an update as circumstances change.

Many thanks for the input and suggestions...



Telecorder

Telecorder

Tex wrote:

Do you have all the devices set to cable select? If not set every ide device you have anywhere to cable select and reboot. Don't set them to master/slave unless they are pretty old. With cable select they alwasy set themselves to wherever they are plugged in.

Takes a lot of the possible probs out of the picture. The reason it reports 40 pin cables is 99 percent of the cd and dvd players can not operate faster then udma33 (udma mode 2) which does not utilize or recognize a 80 pin cable.

Checked within BIOS and all are set for AUTO to select cable. The devices' jumpers are set for the CD-RW as Secondary Master (mid-cable) and the DVD was set as Slave at the end of the cable. One of the replies to my postings at dvdrbase.com was from roadworker commenting on my question if, from what I've read elsewhere, the Master should be at the end of the cable. the following was his reply and my reply/update regarding the latest...

roadworker wrote:

This is indeed the case for 80 pin cables....,your cdrw/dvdrom setup was correct for a 40 pin cable.....
There are also problems sometimes with some cdrw and dvdrw drives that are connected to a 80 pin cable,not every drive can handle the extra info that is sent through those cables....80pins are fine if a harddisk is set as master with a cdrw or dvdrom as slave,since the harddisk can handle the full command set that's send by a 80pin cable.....connecting a 80pin to 2 atapi devices is unnecessary,since they are ATA33 devices(UDMA Mode2),the 40pin is a perfect match,they will get their maximum transfer rate through a 40pin...

Didn't notice this post until now. I set up the CD-RW as Secondary Master (jumper was set for CD-RW to be Master) at the end of the cable with the DVD fully disconnected Sunday at 16:00PST and left PC on all night. Worked all day without any errors/problems

Popped case this evening (Monday - 20:50 PST), disconnected the CD-RW and set the jumper for the DVD to be Secondary Master at the end of the cable and fired it up. Windows detected it and its up and running with the CD-RW off system. So far, so good.

I'll leave the PC on overnight and see how things go tommorrow. Since both drives appear, at this time, to be fully functional by themselves, I'm beginning to wonder if, as you indicate, the IAA or other upgrade install is sending additional info that the CD-RW, as Master, wasn't able to contend with, when both drives were installed.

Then again, I'm not sure what the bus was set up with directly from the PC Mfg since the problems only started in the last few weks. I assume some form of Intel since the original errors indicated IdeChnDR having the timeout errors. If I'm not mistaken, the issues might have started when I ran something like BELARC or SiSoft Sandra that indicated the availability/need for updated drivers. I'll have to go back in my down load folders to cross check the dates against the error log dates to confirm but that's what its looking like.

With the OEM configuration of an 80-Pin cable connecting to the CD-RW in the middle jumpered as Secondary Master and the DVD connected as the jumpered Secondary Slave at the end, the IAA install, along with the upgrades to the BIOS/Mobo etc. may have initiated additional query signals that the 80-pin cable sent and the CD-RW, as Master, wasn't set up to handle... (both of us )

I suppose that if the DVD is able to function for the next 24-hours or so W/O problems, I'll swap positions of the drives in the case to facilitate connecting the CD-RW at the end of the 80-pin cable as jumpered Secondary Master and the DVD at mid-cable as Slave and fire the system back up. (I checked and the cable isn't long enough to reverse the connections with the drives in their current case slots .

Then, again, are there any issues with setting the device jumpers to cable select and the DVD at the end of cable (assuming it would then become the Secondary Master being at the end of the cable)? From what I've read, its better to have the CD-RW as Master...

If the problems start up again after hooking both up to the 80-pin cable, I guess I'll be making a run to Best Buy for a 40-pin cable...

Here's hoping to a resolution...

Again, many thanks, roadworker and Tex, for a possible solution (or, at least, one that needs to be eliminated before moving on to something else...)


Telecorder

Telecorder

Just a quick update that I swapped the physical placement of the optical drives in the case to facilitate connecting the CD-RW at end of 40-pin/80-conductor cable as the jumpered Secondary Master and the DVD-ROM at mid-cable as jumpered Slave about 72 hours ago and have not had a single issue of the drives triggeriing any timeout errors... :wow2: :Rocker:


Much and thanks to all that responded with insights and suggestions that, hopefully, resolved the issues.

Telecorder