I don't quite get the concept, "LOL WE'RE GIRLS ON THE INTERNET BUT WE ARE JUST LIKE GUISE BUT MORE FUN AND CRAZY AND PRONSTARS LOL TECH!" but Sylive + Raven is a combination too awesome to miss. I'm in!
In all seriousness, so many tech sites are carbon copies of one another, and frankly, they tend to be too serious and analytical for their own good. Part of what makes Icrontic so cool is it fosters a community that is fun to interact with. I think that is the same angle these ladies are aiming for, remind us that technology is not just a business with bar graphs and release dates, that tech can actually be pretty fun.
That we can see right through the Olivia Munns of the world, and that we won’t be fooled by “girl gamers†or “tech babes†and their sad ilk any more.
While we're at it, can we get LG, Samsung, and Asus to stop getting models to hold their latest netbook or pose whimsically next to their TV? Cheeeeezey.
I get the point of what they are trying to do and I support it. But they are still girls on the internet trying to cash in on the fact that they are girls on the internet - you know not just those other girls on the internet that basically paved the way to allow them to be girls on the internet.
Which leaves them two choices. They can either continue to be girls on the internet or they can be a tech column that just happens to be girls. In which case their high kicking girl power cartoon fails.
I'm just not cynical enough to see it as hypocritical. If you take them at their word that they're offended at how women are portrayed online (by AMD VPs or elsewhere), I think their strategy is a viable one to address it. They could just keep being themselves, working solo or among other organizations, but their message would be lost in the noise.
Are they trying to make a buck? Yeah (so?). Is what they're doing easier because of women that came before them? Yes, but it is also a reaction that is only necessary because of the women that came before them.
Whether or not it's the best strategy in the long run is something else. It's a good way to make headlines and get attention in the short run, but that might be it unless they build a solid following.
No one is arguing that they can't make a buck. But they are being hypocritical. Their platform is that we are girls on the net just not stupid girls like those other ones. If their identity stems from slamming someone else, that doesn't really prove anything. Politicians run these kind of smear campaigns all the time and it always looks sad and pathetic.
I don't think anyone is claiming to be better than anyone else as a rebuke to this blog post.
They are just saying, we are girls, we are smart, we are fun and we don't need a geeky guy to fix our PC's. I don't think that is hypocritical. I don't think they said anything about Olivia Munn, I think that was all Brian's observation? (I agree by the way)
Listen, I love AMD, and the author of that particular blog has been extremely nice the limited interaction I have had with her, I'm sure it was meant all in good fun, but I could see how some women could take issue with it, and come on guys, if I am saying that? Its a valid rebuttal.
Leslie is something like the VP of WW Marketing at AMD. She's an interesting character: great sense of humor, gets straight to the point and so on.
That blog post was one of the most-read posts in AMD blog history. The offended people are missing the point; it's clearly tongue-in-cheek. "Most geeks don't wear pants." SRS BSNS BLOG POST.
I don't think anyone is claiming to be better than anyone else as a rebuke to this blog post.
They are just saying, we are girls, we are smart, we are fun and we don't need a geeky guy to fix our PC's. I don't think that is hypocritical. I don't think they said anything about Olivia Munn, I think that was all Brian's observation? (I agree by the way)
Yeah, there's two different things being discussed here (and my previous two posts are talking about them separately). Where they overlap is that while people are pointing to the AMD blog post as a symbol, the characterizations in the post (tongue-in-cheek or whatever) are pervasive. Had it not been for Sobon's post, it would have been something else that triggered the discussion for what it means to be a woman in tech.
Mostly because we have nothing better going on. Really despite all that batshit insane stuff that is happening. The net, generally speaking, has become a pretty ordinary place.
Hey guys,
I mean I guess people are going to call any new group of people in a particular field "hypocrites" for trying to be different. We shared our story about being prompted to start the site by that ridiculous blog post because it portrayed women in the wrong way. Doesn't make us hypocrites for not wanting to sit around and wait for someone else to do it, or to keep watching guys on TV, in the news, etc.
these women, even though they are throwing some serious shade at the satirical "lolomgz i'm just a girl i can't work these computarz," are not being hypocritical. it is completely understandable that they are tired of being shoved into one of the very few categories that exist for women in tech in this day and age. they don't want to be portrayed at the ditzy girl who has no tech knowledge, or the slut who gets off on cutting edge devices, or the woman disguised as a man so she can be taken seriously. there is more than enough room for this kind of voice and tone on the internet, and i welcome it! there should be countless shades of gray in between the woman wallowing in her ditzy, old fashioned, know-nothing stereotype and the "there are no girls on the internet" secret woman.
So the argument is they need to get the edge up then buy playing the girl card. Yet their platform is that they aren't 'girls'. Either they can stand on their technical merits or they can't. It's all in how they market themselves.
Olivia Munn for example never tried to claim she was tech savy. She just plays the geek chick cuz she finds it to be fun and personally speaking I find her both a) hot and b) entertaining. I don't watch her to trust her opinions on hardware that's not her purpose nor what she's ever pretended to do.
no one is arguing that the ATN women aren't girls. i think what they are trying to say is that they shouldn't have to be defined as women FIRST and then technophiles second. it seems more like they are a group of fun and interesting people who have a passion for technology and the internet, and they're women. they aren't ignoring that, and are more than willing to bring that to the forefront to lighten up their material and make it fun and a little sexy to read, but Icrontic has a very similar tone - it's solid tech information offered in a fun and engaging way.
what i was trying to say before is that there are more ways to come at this than "we are girls on the internet teehee!" and "we are supar srs tech journalists with no sex organs." sexuality and gender is more than an analog switch, and there can be many different degrees that they can color and affect information and conversation.
@ Thrax - I understand why you're sticking up for Leslie, and agree with you that she's a very interesting character, who cuts through the crap. That's why I personally was so disappointed with that post and found it rather below par for someone as smart as her. Our blog is not a "take this Leslie, kapow!" we just got the idea to start something fun, geeky and girly while we were all fuming over the post! It was just something that sparked an idea... Not fuelled it.
I would still love to have Leslie on our show, and happy to have a techy convo with her and anyone else any time... but I'll mow my own lawn, thanks
And really... Some guys wear pants??? Damn!
@Kryyst - I am losing you on the "they're hypocritical and are using their girliness to make a buck" argument. I may be wrong, but the Icrontic guys make a pretty decent buck, even though they're not quite as, ehem, pretty (SOOOOORRRY BRIAN!!!!)
I think you're misinterpreting our "shtik" so let me attempt to clarify: Yeah, we're all girls, yeah, we are all in tech and love tech and breathe tech and bore people to death with convos most of our friends don't care about. We're also really good friends and have a blast when we're all together (mainly at tech conventions).
We thought it would be rather cool to bottle a bit of that fun and enthusiasm and spill it out on our own blog, because, hell, why not? Can we not have a blog? Would it be less hypocritical of us to not have one? What makes you guys who start blogs based on shared passions less hypocritical than us 4 girls?
And because we're girls, who have hypocritically started our own blog, would you suggest that the right thing to do is not sell ads or sponsorships like normal male blogs, because obviously we'd just be selling sex and nothing else remotely worthwhile? I'm interested to know! Should we "know our place" in the tech world and just settle for enough chump change from Google adsense to do our hair and nails?
As for "dissing" other women in tech... where would anyone ever get that idea???? Firstly, there are so few... we always breathe a sigh of relief when we walk into a conference and find other pleasant smelling creatures wearing matching socks(AND PANTS THRAX! Lol.)
Indeed, we're asking every girl we know in this industry to come join the fun and vlog with us! And guys too... cause we're not exclusive or hypocritical like that. Consider it an invitation... Want to do vids with us?? Let's set it up. We're passionate fun girls... we're here to have a good time doing our real jobs (which are in tech) and AroundThe.Net is pure bonus for all of us. If you have something to bring to our table... bring it!
Oh, and @Cliff - You're awesome dude, and a good mate! Hope you and Brian will join us for a beer sometime soon @Gargoyle... you too buddy!
I'm not trying to begrudge you from what your doing - If it works, awesome and I hope it works. The hypocrisy probably rose up more from Prime's statement then anything else. That in some vain you are the honest Geek girls and the others are 'transparent fakes'. That some how the Olivia Munn's were trying to fool us in some way.
Dude, I've never even heard of Olivia Munn! (disclaimer: I'm not American and moved to the US really recently). I straight up just Googled her! She looks hot Maybe one day she'll agree to vlog with us too!
I wouldn't ever assume anyone was a 'transparent fake' (not sure I even know the criteria for that!) just like I wouldn't assume anyone was being hypocritical for opening a fun blog with their friends :P but yeah, I kinda get where you were going with that now, mate. But rest assured, none of the girls at ATN are in any way snobby or mean to anyone... male or female. We're a pretty nice, open, fun bunch! And if you dig us and our site, coolio, if not, c'est la vie, different strokes for different folks and all
Never was trying to suggest that you were anything but a group of girls trying to setup a tech site. But that's kinda the thing isn't it?
If you were just 4 guys setting up a tech site, none of us would have been having this conversation. To this thread the fact that you are girls is more relevant then the fact that you are doing a tech site. I'd seriously even doubt if Prime would have even linked to it otherwise...
Plus like I said earlier - slow day and had nothing better to do.
If you were just 4 guys setting up a tech site, none of us would have been having this conversation. To this thread the fact that you are girls is more relevant then the fact that you are doing a tech site. I'd seriously even doubt if Prime would have even linked to it otherwise...
Actually, Prime is a mate of mine and we've been linking to each other's stuff and cross promoting for a good while now That's probably why he agreed to link me when I asked (nay, begged!) *hangs head in shame for blatant attention seeking* lol
I dunno, I'd link to any of my mates if they were starting a new blog... regardless of gender!
and...dude.... "nothing better to do"??? - start a blog
Well, it's late Friday afternoon, I already started drinking hours ago... I vote you take 'em off! Sheesh... you'd think it was Monday morning or something!
primesuspect
Beepin n' BoopinDetroit, MI Icrontian
Comments
YES. ^5
I for one am burned out on the clichés. No more bimbos pretending to like gadgets. No more guys thinking they're the first one to post "you mean she's holding a gadget?" on a tech blog. Let's get down to some real content and emphasize that the target audience is everyone, not just lonely weirdos in their mother's basement.
While we're at it, can we get LG, Samsung, and Asus to stop getting models to hold their latest netbook or pose whimsically next to their TV? Cheeeeezey.
Which leaves them two choices. They can either continue to be girls on the internet or they can be a tech column that just happens to be girls. In which case their high kicking girl power cartoon fails.
Are they trying to make a buck? Yeah (so?). Is what they're doing easier because of women that came before them? Yes, but it is also a reaction that is only necessary because of the women that came before them.
Whether or not it's the best strategy in the long run is something else. It's a good way to make headlines and get attention in the short run, but that might be it unless they build a solid following.
They are just saying, we are girls, we are smart, we are fun and we don't need a geeky guy to fix our PC's. I don't think that is hypocritical. I don't think they said anything about Olivia Munn, I think that was all Brian's observation? (I agree by the way)
Listen, I love AMD, and the author of that particular blog has been extremely nice the limited interaction I have had with her, I'm sure it was meant all in good fun, but I could see how some women could take issue with it, and come on guys, if I am saying that? Its a valid rebuttal.
That blog post was one of the most-read posts in AMD blog history. The offended people are missing the point; it's clearly tongue-in-cheek. "Most geeks don't wear pants." SRS BSNS BLOG POST.
Yeah, there's two different things being discussed here (and my previous two posts are talking about them separately). Where they overlap is that while people are pointing to the AMD blog post as a symbol, the characterizations in the post (tongue-in-cheek or whatever) are pervasive. Had it not been for Sobon's post, it would have been something else that triggered the discussion for what it means to be a woman in tech.
Something like this, for instance.
I love that it's all dudes discussing this, btw
I mean I guess people are going to call any new group of people in a particular field "hypocrites" for trying to be different. We shared our story about being prompted to start the site by that ridiculous blog post because it portrayed women in the wrong way. Doesn't make us hypocrites for not wanting to sit around and wait for someone else to do it, or to keep watching guys on TV, in the news, etc.
Let's spice it up, no?
these women, even though they are throwing some serious shade at the satirical "lolomgz i'm just a girl i can't work these computarz," are not being hypocritical. it is completely understandable that they are tired of being shoved into one of the very few categories that exist for women in tech in this day and age. they don't want to be portrayed at the ditzy girl who has no tech knowledge, or the slut who gets off on cutting edge devices, or the woman disguised as a man so she can be taken seriously. there is more than enough room for this kind of voice and tone on the internet, and i welcome it! there should be countless shades of gray in between the woman wallowing in her ditzy, old fashioned, know-nothing stereotype and the "there are no girls on the internet" secret woman.
in short: get it, girl.
Olivia Munn for example never tried to claim she was tech savy. She just plays the geek chick cuz she finds it to be fun and personally speaking I find her both a) hot and b) entertaining. I don't watch her to trust her opinions on hardware that's not her purpose nor what she's ever pretended to do.
what i was trying to say before is that there are more ways to come at this than "we are girls on the internet teehee!" and "we are supar srs tech journalists with no sex organs." sexuality and gender is more than an analog switch, and there can be many different degrees that they can color and affect information and conversation.
a lovely and gracious offer, but i'ma have to decline. i'm bookmarking your website, and i look forward to all sorts of awesome content!
I would still love to have Leslie on our show, and happy to have a techy convo with her and anyone else any time... but I'll mow my own lawn, thanks
And really... Some guys wear pants??? Damn!
@Kryyst - I am losing you on the "they're hypocritical and are using their girliness to make a buck" argument. I may be wrong, but the Icrontic guys make a pretty decent buck, even though they're not quite as, ehem, pretty
I think you're misinterpreting our "shtik" so let me attempt to clarify: Yeah, we're all girls, yeah, we are all in tech and love tech and breathe tech and bore people to death with convos most of our friends don't care about. We're also really good friends and have a blast when we're all together (mainly at tech conventions).
We thought it would be rather cool to bottle a bit of that fun and enthusiasm and spill it out on our own blog, because, hell, why not? Can we not have a blog? Would it be less hypocritical of us to not have one? What makes you guys who start blogs based on shared passions less hypocritical than us 4 girls?
And because we're girls, who have hypocritically started our own blog, would you suggest that the right thing to do is not sell ads or sponsorships like normal male blogs, because obviously we'd just be selling sex and nothing else remotely worthwhile? I'm interested to know! Should we "know our place" in the tech world and just settle for enough chump change from Google adsense to do our hair and nails?
As for "dissing" other women in tech... where would anyone ever get that idea???? Firstly, there are so few... we always breathe a sigh of relief when we walk into a conference and find other pleasant smelling creatures wearing matching socks(AND PANTS THRAX! Lol.)
Indeed, we're asking every girl we know in this industry to come join the fun and vlog with us! And guys too... cause we're not exclusive or hypocritical like that. Consider it an invitation... Want to do vids with us?? Let's set it up. We're passionate fun girls... we're here to have a good time doing our real jobs (which are in tech) and AroundThe.Net is pure bonus for all of us. If you have something to bring to our table... bring it!
Oh, and @Cliff - You're awesome dude, and a good mate! Hope you and Brian will join us for a beer sometime soon
I wouldn't ever assume anyone was a 'transparent fake' (not sure I even know the criteria for that!) just like I wouldn't assume anyone was being hypocritical for opening a fun blog with their friends :P but yeah, I kinda get where you were going with that now, mate. But rest assured, none of the girls at ATN are in any way snobby or mean to anyone... male or female. We're a pretty nice, open, fun bunch! And if you dig us and our site, coolio, if not, c'est la vie, different strokes for different folks and all
If you were just 4 guys setting up a tech site, none of us would have been having this conversation. To this thread the fact that you are girls is more relevant then the fact that you are doing a tech site. I'd seriously even doubt if Prime would have even linked to it otherwise...
Plus like I said earlier - slow day and had nothing better to do.
Actually, Prime is a mate of mine and we've been linking to each other's stuff and cross promoting for a good while now
I dunno, I'd link to any of my mates if they were starting a new blog... regardless of gender!
and...dude.... "nothing better to do"??? - start a blog