A question about MC
MiracleManS
Chambersburg, PA Icrontian
So, given that my general idea of what I'd like to see on an SMP server is poorly received by everyone in the MC community that I've seen, I was just wondering what the interest in a new server would be. This is more a question than anything, but I dislike the direction the current server is taking.
If I may, I'd like to enumerate my dislikes:
My proposal:
Most of this is built on the idea that we can trust people in the IC community, which I'm pretty sure is 90% of the server now. I just dislike the "care-bear" attitude of the server as it stands. If I want to keep people from what I'm doing, I'm not allowed, I have to give everyone access, I have to pretend everything is ok. Lava is bad, fire is bad, etc. etc. It feels very much NOT like the game is "intended".
I guess I only bring this up because I remember everyone being excited about damage being included. Now, when I hit the server, I have to seek out danger. I'm never in danger in the gigantic central town and eventually it'll spread further and further 'til the map is unwieldy.
If there is no interest in this, I won't do anything, if there is, I'll be happy to find a server to make this happen.
If I may, I'd like to enumerate my dislikes:
- Its for the greater good (to be more specific, the idea that anyone killing anyone else ever is bad)
- The idea that anything you build should never kill anyone else ever
- The idea that we should all work together "for the greater good"
- The belief that anything that "pvp" is bad (to be specific. I don't want to run around swords a blazing, but I'd like to think that, if I think someone stole my shit or that I saw them, I'm allowed to beat them do death with a sword)
- That the server has become, essentially, a creative server with "survival" as a side note
My proposal:
- That we can have a "gentleman's agreement" to not be dicks and destroy everyone's shit.
- That we can reasonably protect our own environments/supplys with traps and the like. I think its silly to think that everything should be "community" but "only if its labeled". Hence why locked chests and shit are proposed. It's silly and...really limits creativity.
- That you can share if you want, that we can have a "non-dick" area where things are safe, we can have a central town, but anything outside of that is a "free-for-all" within reason (AKA, don't just kill people's shit for no reason, don't just steal etc.)
Most of this is built on the idea that we can trust people in the IC community, which I'm pretty sure is 90% of the server now. I just dislike the "care-bear" attitude of the server as it stands. If I want to keep people from what I'm doing, I'm not allowed, I have to give everyone access, I have to pretend everything is ok. Lava is bad, fire is bad, etc. etc. It feels very much NOT like the game is "intended".
I guess I only bring this up because I remember everyone being excited about damage being included. Now, when I hit the server, I have to seek out danger. I'm never in danger in the gigantic central town and eventually it'll spread further and further 'til the map is unwieldy.
If there is no interest in this, I won't do anything, if there is, I'll be happy to find a server to make this happen.
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Also, I haven't been playing as much lately due to the fact that I can't think of anything interesting to build, this might open that up again.
But it does prevent people from getting all pissy if they get killed by someone else. It allows you to, outside of a (what I'd like to be) very small central area, to have some idea of protection. I'd like to see some sort of human conflict and interaction, not some namby pamby "Boo hoo, they killed me, that's mean."
To clarify, I don't mean that you should never destroy what someone else has made. If you have a feud or something, sure, blow it up or whatever. Just don't be a jerk and do it when they're not on the server. Hence the gentleman thing. Forcing people to cooperate "or else" really seems forced in a game where you can hurt each other.
You have a very different take on this game than I do. I don't see it as that type of game at all.
I don't want that at all. What I want is people to be allowed to have their own protected space that they must protect. There's a PvP flag in the server.properties file for a reason. If you don't want it, turn it off. I really think the IC server should do that.
What I'm proposing is a server where people can hit each other without being considered a griefer. Where creating traps is encouraged instead of using server mods. Where the only real griefing is when you just go around the map with TNT and blow it to smithereens or you destroy someone's stuff without provocation.
Can you be a rogue agent or a criminal? Sure.
Will it be encouraged? No.
Will you be banned for killing someone (intentional or otherwise)? No.
Should you go AFK when you're on this server and expect people to not screw with you? No.
I think with the right group of people this kind of game play is awesome. An emphasis on survival. Not just against the crappy monsters in game (Really, they're not that scary) but against other players. Having to form relationships with them and not just know that they'll never do anything to harm you. I think that's much more fun than a creative server where the entire point is "one-upsmanship".
That was the point of this, to gauge interest. I think I pointed that out above...that I'd take on that challenge.
I know Bobby said he was working on pvp arena but I don't think that ever happened. Looks like I have a real project now instead of chopping down a thousand trees. I will update about local latter but most likely going to either be on a faux island or in the desert with no direct rail line. Also I will start on building a tower based defend/cap area east of town.
WELCOME TO THE THUNDER!
To be honest, the things I like most about this game are building things and looking at other people's stuff. The introduction of PVP kind of kills that.
Depending on how far the PVP goes, the game could quickly become a second job. Constantly maintaining your traps, checking your stuff, etc. Not to mention that by this game's very nature, it is neigh impossible to make a unbreakable trap. I play this to relax after classes and work, and I'd rather not deal with the possibility of people taking my stuff or having to constantly make sure my traps are still operational.
In the end, how the IC server runs now is pretty much exactly like I would prefer the game to be, and as such I have zero interest in moving to a server like the one proposed.
All PVP is optional and consent based.
Honestly I would find it hilarious walking around someone's house then all of a sudden TRAP i am dead, as long as my items weren't destroyed.
You're in my house, I'll kill you if I want to. :P
And no, you getting your stuff back isn't a concern, if I told you to stay out.
I am also of the thought if I am on someone else's land and I fall into a trap or am killed, I'm fine with that, even if I do lose my stuff. I was on your land. My bad.
I am against random traps on public land or in someone else's projects.
And really, what you're describing is basically the Icrontic server with the ability to make traps and grief people...but only if they're on.
I'd be fine with a PvP area in the current server, just so long as it's fenced and clearly marked so I don't accidentally end up in it. For me, this game is about building cool stuff, seeing cool stuff others build, and relaxing after work. The monsters add a fun dimension to keep things from being too easy. I'd be okay with traps, seeing as I can easily replace my entire inventory. But really, I don't see why the need for them, other than lol, this is funny. Any trap made with the intent of keeping people out can be easily broken. In fact, if you built a trap to keep people out that wasn't supposed to be funny, I would probably try to break it just for the hell of it. Really. Dargon and I, at least, can tunnel straight through a lava field. You're not keeping us out of much. I'd break in, grief your shit just to piss you off, and never myself have more than a small safehouse around for you to grief. You wouldn't have much fun with me on that server and I doubt I'd be around for long.
I'd have little to no interest in playing on a server such that you outlined. I like being able to wander without fear of a trap killing me. I like having a sense of community. I like that there are common spaces that we all work together on building. There's plenty of games out there that you can run around and kill everyone in, I like that Minecraft (at least on our server) isn't one of them.
I've never played a single player game where I just build and build and build without it being on passive. Even then, I find that rather boring. I just make mundane structures and attempt to build elaborate traps to protect my little area. I don't put torches all around my house in single player, just at the front door. I don't like the idea of just building stuff for building sake and to show off how cool and awesome it looks. Although if I built an awesome trap, or a combination lock, or whatever. I'd certainly want to show that off (by having people fail or succeed, and increasing its complexity continuously).
To each their own I guess.
Edit for clarity: I'm not proposing total lawlessness. I think its entirely possible to have a community and still be allowed to destroy each other's stuff and each other. The two aren't incompatible.
See, that's the exact type of gameplay I like to see. Where I have to be more creative than you, do dummy traps, etc. etc. etc.
Right now, the only thing I do is make traps for monsters to trigger in SSP, which is really boring. Just like you losing your stuff wouldn't be that big a deal, you "griefing" my stuff wouldn't be to me either (although I contend what you're doing isn't griefing, unless you are doing it without me being on the server and just to be a complete jerk because the rules allow you. Hence my contention of keeping it in the IC community, where we could keep things civil). I'm certain you can make traps that are hard to detect. Especially with the new dispensers, lava flows, falling sand etc. I think that's the fun and creative part of the game. Not stacking blocks endlessly to make something that isn't serving a particular function outside of inspiring awe.
For example, if someone keeps breaking into your house, you build a trap. They beat your trap, so you have to be creative to build another one. You decide its easier to go break into their house... and it escalates and that becomes the game. Who can build the best traps?
I went through a lot of time building a ginormous platform in the sky that killed me about once every 20 minutes. Dying isn't that big of a deal. Really. Even if you lose diamond tools.... you played the game to get the diamond in the first place. That is the game... gathering stuff, building with it.
I don't think you'd need to have a new server, you could just have a private area with signs that said "enter at your own risks, the monsters here are intelligent" and the people who thought this was a more interesting form of creativity could go play around there, or leave. In order to suceed in the new area, I suggest bringing a friend, and forming alliances, etc.
I see this as a very interesting dynamic. Seems to me that most people in this thread seem to think means "pointlessly kill others for no reason." I say lets try it, put some basic rules (for example, stay in X region) and other than that, let it turn out.
That being said, unless something interesting like this pops up, I'm pretty much bored with the game. I made an enormous grinder that would spawn creepers... and then had no use for gunpowder with the current server setup.
Even if there is no "General" interest in this, I'm willing to put money into a server to make this happen. I think characterizing it as "griefer heaven" (even with the quotes) is a bit disingenuous. I'd prefer to think of it as competitive survival. I have no intention of allowing just anyone on such a server. I don't think an encouragement of griefing people is the point. I just think the idea that everyone is always safe is what I'd be looking to avoid. I can imagine this being as vanilla a server as possible. If anyone is interested at this point, just PM me. I'll see what everyone is interested in and I'll make my financial decision from there.
I'd come back to minecraft if I thought building cannons would be acceptable.
//Edit: Despite the fact that the IC server is allergic to plugins, there are several that can control PvP so everyone's wishes in this thread can be upheld. i trust people will see the wisdom in this.
Only problem is things like not being able to make TNT, or is this not in place right now?
Right now, there are no plugins at all since hey0 has not been updated for 1.2 and bukkit isn't ready for primetime yet. Just a vanilla, no-plugin server.
The only reason I play is to be creative. Thats probably just me. If I want survival I will play single player. I personally hate the mods. But again thats just me. I will always play to be creative and when the day comes that the creative aspect is gone, then so to I shall be from the server.
This is another great idea from Thrax, here here
Feel free to live there full time if you like. Or just visit.