Server Plugin Thread
Just starting a new thread to discuss possible plugins to be added/removed from the official server. Right now, as I mentioned before, the server is running the following three plugins: SimpleHome SimpleAtlanta and Whitelist from http://immortal-forces.net/
I'm thinking about also installing this plugin so we can track down those that have been stealing things:
http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/sec-bigbrother-1-5-watch-log-and-rollback-griefers-135.166/
It's a pretty complex plugin though and I would need to do some testing before installing it on the main server.
Anyone else have suggestions for fun/useful plugins or have input on the above?
I'm thinking about also installing this plugin so we can track down those that have been stealing things:
http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/sec-bigbrother-1-5-watch-log-and-rollback-griefers-135.166/
It's a pretty complex plugin though and I would need to do some testing before installing it on the main server.
Anyone else have suggestions for fun/useful plugins or have input on the above?
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Comments
/me shakes fist
I'm going to take this moment to switch SimpleAtlanta (which I just noticed has been discontinued and shouldn't be used) out for PlayerList
Also, holy shit! I wish I had known SimpleHome was installed! My main base is nearly 1,400 blocks or more from spawn, and getting back there after dying is a bitch and a half!
it's not really a cheat.
No, I had it on the test server so it ended up getting copied over to the official server when I flipped the switch on bukkit. I didn't remove it since no one seemed to mind it being there. If enough people would like it removed, I will do so.
That is cheating behavior. And if you're doing that then you are cheating. But /home is a legitimate tool with a valid and useful function.
Ardi, can the /sethome command be disabled selectively. As in, everyone gets to set their home, then the command is turned off so that only /home works? Or, I assume that SimpleHome has a config file. Can we all just send you preferred /home coords, and you can set the values in the file for each of us? Either way, CB can not worry about cheaters.
It's not as if you can't opt out of using it yourself. Hell, I didn't know it existed (and thus didn't use it) until yesterday.
Seems we have a split decision here at the moment. Bobby and CB, I'm sorry, but both of you have made arguments that strike me as rather shallow. If you think it takes adventure out of the game, then simply don't use it. I don't see how having the plugin available to those who want to use it affects those who don't. Unless we have a majority of players that want it removed, or a compelling argument is made as to how the plugin affects people that don't want to use it, I don't see the need to remove it.
Also, partly, it's a matter of principle: Our SOP should not be to add expansions, then wait for people to object and vote it down. We should be voting on new expansions before they get added.
Then learn some self control. No one is making you use it but yourself, you have only yourself to blame. Your argument is akin to an alcoholic blaming the liquor store on the corner for his drinking problem because they sell alcohol.
Like I said, the home plugin got roped in when I moved bukkit from my test environment to the stable one. It was a one time deal (call it a mistake if you will) but now that it's there, I'm not going to take it away from the people that want it unless, as I already said, (A) most of the players don't want it or (B) a compelling argument can be made as to how it affects those that don't want to use the plugin. The "it's there, I'll be tempted to use it" argument doesn't pass muster with me.
A. Member sees value in Plugin, Brings up Plugin to community
B. Opinions given if liked or not, Pros & Cons of Plugin discussed
C. Democratic vote
D. Enough people want it (or don't mind it), Yes wins, Mod installed
Now:
A. Mod is installed
B. Opinions given if liked or not
C. Name calling by Admin for those who don't like it
D. Plugin stays unless Admin is satisfied with reason to remove
I have a couple reasons why I wouldn't want /Home installed but would love for it to be installed if the majority of players voted for it. The fact of the matter is, it wasn't even brought up as a "Can we has?", It was just installed.
I understand this and I'm not rallying to remove it. As soon as it was questioned it should have gone to a vote. Instead both opinions apposed to yours were called shallow and the message I got was "Change my opinion and I will remove it"
I'll update my table to include your restated information:
The way it was:
A. Member sees value in Plugin, Brings up Plugin to community
B. Opinions given if liked or not, Pros & Cons of Plugin discussed
C. Democratic vote
D. Enough people want it (or don't mind it), Yes wins, Mod installed
Now:
A. Mod is installed (doesn't matter how, notice this is A and not D)
B. Opinions given if liked or not
C. Name calling by Admin for those who don't like it, Others that like it are used as justification for install
D. Plugin stays unless Admin is satisfied with reason to remove
Now that we are here, I believe this sort of situation can still be handled in a democratic manor:
A. Mod is installed (doesn't matter how, Shit happens, we all know that)
B. Install is questioned
C. Opinions given if liked or not, Pros & Cons of Plugin discussed
D. Democratic vote
E. Enough people want it (or don't mind it), Yes wins, Mod Stays. If not, Mod uninstalled.
Edit to clarify: I think if this did go to vote that it will pass staying. Others may feel strongly enough to create a poll about removing it. I'm more concerned about the way this particular issue was handled when it was questioned. I was insulted, just trying to keep it civil.
+1
What it does is make the game easy for people who want to use it, and makes the talent of people who don't need it less valuable.
Or:
A. One person decides to host server
B. Said person gets to dictate how the community is run on said server
Sorry, but your personal opinions about what we as a community want to do on the server should be the same as anyone else. Hosting the server isn't a license to be a dictatorship (or in your own words from the server console, a God to us mortals).
Kudos to you for hosting the server, but it's not an entitlement to any kind of authority in-game. This is a community effort, and if you can't handle the responsibility, maybe we should look for a different host. We certainly didn't have any of these idealogical (or performance/reliability, for that matter) issues when Ryder of Thrax were hosting. To me, that's pretty telling.
If Minecraft was a competitive game, I'd agree with you. The game is essentially a big sandbox creation game. As such, I personally disagree with you. This isn't a plugin that allows someone to spawn a bunch of material to build with, it just lets them jump to a single pre-defined point.
Could it be abused to get them out of danger? Sure. How does that affect you playing this game though? You gain nothing from another player dying and you lose nothing when another player doesn't die. (At least not on the IC server anyway).
That all said, if you guys want the plugin removed, create a poll, if we have enough players vote to remove it then I'll remove it. I believe I've said this before but no one ever created the poll.
I know, I still love<3 me some Ardi. An no matter what comes of this I am still appreciative of you hosting the server.
The rest of your post however is grouping CB's opinion in with mine. I've made no arguments, just stated my opinion. And as TT just pointed out above, my Water is as big as yours.... or TT's or CB's....ect.
As in, I can accomplish X without the plugin. This is a point of pride with me and others.
Now certain people can accomplish X with the plugin who otherwise would have had to figure out how to, as I did. For example, I explored a massive cave system that is still largely unexplored. Now I can easily explore the rest and get the resource rewards without much danger at all. If someone else had to fight for the same resources, their experience is now less meaningful retroactively. For people who have spent weeks doing these things without the benefit of a plugin, this is a problem.
How about:
1. create the poll yourself
2. if the community wants it, we install it
Don't forget, you're not installing a plugin on your server. you're choosing to change the way the community works.
As for your characterization of me tt, have you bothered to read the whole discussion? As I've said multiple times, I did *NOT* add the plugin to be a dick or through some unilateral decision, it got copied over from my test server (which IS my playground, btw, and if you want to tell me what I can/cannot do there then you're nuts) when I made the switch to bukkit (something that was requested by the community so that the whitelist could be put back in place). Now that it's there, there is an extreme minority of people that have a problem with it, an equal number of people (also an extreme minority) that have vocally said that they want to keep it and the vast majority that have not said anything either way on the subject. If a majority decides to speak up and says remove it, then I'll heed the majority voice. If someone comes up with a damn good argument as to how the plugin affects gameplay for those that don't want it there just by being available for others, then and only then will I go against the silent majority and remove it without a majority vote telling me to do so.
Mine's bigger.
While that's true in theory, I'm not sure it's entirely true in practice. As I pointed out before, I use the /home command. I use it pretty much simply because I set myself on fire a lot tunneling through lava. I don't use it when I'm exploring the massive cave system that's ridiculously close to where I have my "home" set to. With the way I explore tunnels it's just kind of silly to even bother with it. I tend to do the "grab four or five torches, place, run back" thing rather than the "explore the cavern all at once" thing.
I also have a tendency to drop all my stuff, leap off the nearest cliff/drown myself/immerse myself in lava in order to get back to spawn and things I have (relatively) near spawn quickly. (Or just to refill my health.) Effectively, I use respawning exactly like the /home command. Limited? Yes, and that's probably why people think it's okay. I have to drop all of my stuff or lose it in order to do it. But it's still warping from a point to another point. I just don't get to choose the point I warp to.