@oni_dels what kind of questions do you have? Have you read How to Brew? (the web version is outdated, but it contains most of what you need to know)
I think you should brew a beer that you like, so if you like English ales or stouts then go with that. If you like Belgians or lagers, you can make those with varying levels of ingenuity. I made my first lager by putting it in a Rubbermaid cooler filled with water, then swapped out 4 frozen 1/2 liter bottles every 12 hours. It kept it cool enough.
If you haven't brewed before with specialty grains and hops, I would recommend getting that process down before trying to design your own recipes. But that's because I'm a planner and so if you want to throw some stuff in a pot and see what happens, then do that. Your homebrew shop can hook you up with a recipe and ingredients for whatever style you're thinking of.
If you get a turkey-fryer to do a full boil outside you'll also need a wort chiller to cool it down after, so put that in your budget. And you'll still want to use some malt extract (the syrup-y substance or a powder) unless you want to jump right into all-grain brewing. You can get light, unhopped malt extract that can act as a base for your beer without limiting your creativity too much.
2
oni_delsDrunk French CanadianMontréal, Québec.Icrontian
@georgeh said:
what kind of questions do you have? Have you read How to Brew?
well, i literally just got the book, 5mins ago. so i know what i'm doing in my daily commute for the rest of the week.
i'll see if i have major questions after it i guess, but i'm a little fuzzy on the whole boiling cereals etc.
i've done brews with little home kit, but that's rather easy: you follow a recipe and wait for a while. but it did help me getting accustom to the fermenter and carboy and tubing and wtv.
That book should answer most of your questions. If you have more after going through it let us know and I'm sure someone will have the answers for you. Don't worry about boiling grains (you steep them, then take them out before boiling) and be open to using some syrup or powder in your recipes for now.
@georgeh said:
If you like Belgians or lagers, you can make those with varying levels of ingenuity. I made my first lager by putting it in a Rubbermaid cooler filled with water, then swapped out 4 frozen 1/2 liter bottles every 12 hours. It kept it cool enough.
I did something similar. I've only been doing 1 gallon batches, so I haven't invested in any bulky equipment like a dedicated lagering fridge. For this recipe (used this calculator), I did the primary with the carboy sitting in a water bath with frozen water bottles. It got a bit warmer than I'd like, but worked well enough. Then I racked into the secondary and put the carboy in a cooler with frozen bottles changed once or twice a day:
If you haven't brewed before with specialty grains and hops, I would recommend getting that process down before trying to design your own recipes. But that's because I'm a planner and so if you want to throw some stuff in a pot and see what happens, then do that. Your homebrew shop can hook you up with a recipe and ingredients for whatever style you're thinking of.
Doing a partial mash is a great way to go to get started. You get to experience the alchemy part of brewing without having to mess with lautering.
The Oktoberfest recipe above was the result of a random urge one day to make a lager without proper equipment, or having ever done a partial mash by myself. I just went down to my local HBS, grabbed some liquid Oktoberfest yeast, some hops that sounded German, a pound of DME, and some grains that smelled like grandma's house. That's the caramel malt in the oversized tea bag:
It all turned out okay! Eventually, anyway -
I thought the fermentation quit early, and the taste after being in secondary for awhile still wasn't good. It was oily, almost savory. I've frequently read advice that if it doesn't taste right, it may just need more time. Sometimes much more time. So I bottled it, stuck it in the corner, and forgot about it for a couple months. Until I heard an explosion one night:
The fermentation definitely started again. I stuck all the bottles in the fridge to hopefully knock the yeast down, and double-bagged all the bottles in case they blew. I tried a bottle after they chilled, and it was a solid, decent Oktoberfest despite my ghetto technique! Now my only regret (besides the bottle bomb cleanup) was that I only had a few bottles since it was a gallon batch.
@oni_dels said:
so, i'm finally gonna start brewing with hops and malts (not a syrup-y substance). i have a very basic setup, 23l basket and 23l (that's 5gal) carby, both food grade plastic. i was thinking of boiling outside with a burner and a big kettle.
also being on a 3rd floor apt, i can't really control temperature, so i know lagers and belgian ales are out of the question.
one of my friend's been brewing for a while now and he suggest i do english ale or stout. i was thinking of getting Goldings, but cascade is very tempting.
i don't know much about what to do really. i've been reading about it for a while now, but i'd like inputs.
edit: also, i was told to get this book,, which i just did.
1) awesome.
2) go to your city's public water website and get a water report. Compare it to the table HERE to figure out what type of beers are best suited to your water without any modifications. I'd start with something that you can just do without any water modification.
3) temps will also hinder what you can do. Lagering in an apartment will be tough, but you could do it with a tub of salted ice water that you monitor regularly. I'd personally stick to some sort of Ale, or Belgian because its easier to keep something constantly warm than cold.
4) all-grain brewing takes a fair bit more volume to work with. Mashing requires you to put your full volume of grain with most of your water at one time, so you'll want something in the area of 8 gallons to do this in.
5) if you aren't on a tight budget, consider electric brew in a bag systems.
Let me know if you have any questions.
3
oni_delsDrunk French CanadianMontréal, Québec.Icrontian
@MAGIC said:
go to your city's public water website and get a water report. Compare it to the table HERE to figure out what type of beers are best suited to your water without any modifications. I'd start with something that you can just do without any water modification.
i used distilled water for my previous batch, is that ok?
@oni_dels said:
i used distilled water for my previous batch, is that ok?
It's not the best. Like all living things yeast needs certain nutrients and minerals to thrive. Distilled water strips all that away. So unless you throw in some yeast nutrients as well your yeast will be struggling. There is a whole section on water in that How to Brew book you bought. It will explain it better and go into more detail.
I usually buy gallons of spring water because filling up a pot takes forever otherwise.
@oni_dels said:
i used distilled water for my previous batch, is that ok?
That's fine, since you used syrup. Malt extracts have all the minerals you want already in them.
Personally I would ignore water chemistry until after you have a few batches under your belt, but that's just me. I have been brewing for 8 years and still ignore water chemistry beyond a carbon filter to get chloramines out. Depends on how nerdy you want to get.
@oni_dels said:
was on syrup, switching to all grain for my next batch. but trying to get as much info as i can before
Why the rush to all-grain?
I've been brewing for 8 years, I make plenty of all-grain beers, I've brewed with professionals. My last 3 batches have been extract. Extract beers have won awards.
I love good all grain beers. I love good extract beers. It's easier to make a good extract beer. It requires less equipment to make a good extract beer, and the grains were mashed by professionals so you don't have to worry about the starch conversion. The reason I chose extract for my last 3 batches was because they did not need special base malts like rye and they were not extremely light beers like Pilsners. All grain requires more time and equipment, and requires a greater attention to detail. It also gives you more control over the final gravity, protein levels and more.
Take a look at MoreBeer's Evolution of a Homebrewer. I agree with them in that those are the logical steps to improve your beer, except for kegging. Fermentation control through temperature, oxygen, and proper pitching rates will improve your beer much more than controlling mash temperature (especially if you are doing a single-step-infusion step).
I'm not trying to scare you off; all-grain isn't impossible. You can start out with it if you really want to. I just don't want you to have the impression that extract beers are bad, or that you aren't doing it yourself if you use extracts.
oni_delsDrunk French CanadianMontréal, Québec.Icrontian
it's more of a "extract isn't really hard" type of thing. when i say "yeah, i brew my own beer", but do extract, i feel like i'm saying "yeah i can cook", but only do mac & cheeze from the box. like, it's not really hard to just empty a pouch and follow instructions.
i did like the beers i made from syrup and wouldn't mind doing more, but i really want the greater challenge and greater rewards of all grain
@oni_dels said:
it's more of a "extract isn't really hard" type of thing. when i say "yeah, i brew my own beer", but do extract, i feel like i'm saying "yeah i can cook", but only do mac & cheeze from the box. like, it's not really hard to just empty a pouch and follow instructions.
I'm going to disagree with you on this. If I'm making a burger, I don't grind my own meat - I buy it already ground.
You're focused on one ingredient and its preparation, but I'm guessing you've forgotten about another: hops. Do you grow and dry your own, or do you buy the pouches of already prepared hops?
Every one of my brews has been extract. For the last few years they've been recipes of my own making. It is definitely not a mac & cheese situation. You still have to know the flavors, color, texture, bitterness, aroma, and percentage you're after and tweak things until the desired results are achieved.
@mertesn said:
I'm going to disagree with you on this. If I'm making a burger, I don't grind my own meat - I buy it already ground.
But, to be devil's advocate, an argument can be made that someone who grinds their own meat is going to make a mindblowing burger because they are getting not only the absolute freshest meat but can also control every aspect of the finished product. When you control all of the ingredients, the true artistry of the chef can come out. Buying pre-ground meat means you're getting someone else's meat to make your burger.
Damnit.... now I REALLY want to get the meat grinding attachment for our KitchenAid so that I can make sausage in addition to the bacon I've been curing. CURSE YOU ICRONTIC!
@primesuspect said:
But, to be devil's advocate, an argument can be made that someone who grinds their own meat is going to make a mindblowing burger because they are getting not only the absolute freshest meat but can also control every aspect of the finished product. When you control all of the ingredients, the true artistry of the chef can come out. Buying pre-ground meat means you're getting someone else's meat to make your burger.
I hear you, but if someone says "I bought pre-made patties from the store and made an OK burger, I think my next step is to buy a $300 meat grinder and start making my own burgers from beef cuts" my response would be "you could save some money and get better results by focusing on your seasonings and grilling to perfection, then upgrade later".
In this case the recipe design and fermentation will effect beer orders of magnitude more than using extract over all grain, for most recipes. All-grain definitely changes the final product, but if you don't have your fermentation game down you're not making the biggest improvements you could be. And there's a good chance your first 1-2 batches after going all-grain will be worse than extract, until you get your mash and sparge techniques down.
@ardichoke said:
Damnit.... now I REALLY want to get the meat grinding attachment for our KitchenAid so that I can make sausage in addition to the bacon I've been curing. CURSE YOU ICRONTIC!
Let me know how it works. I mean, it's KitchenAid, so I assume it will be fine, but on the off chance that it doesn't work well I'd rather not spend the money.
@ardichoke said:
Let me know how it works. I mean, it's KitchenAid, so I assume it will be fine, but on the off chance that it doesn't work well I'd rather not spend the money.
@primesuspect said:
But, to be devil's advocate, an argument can be made that someone who grinds their own meat is going to make a mindblowing burger because they are getting not only the absolute freshest meat but can also control every aspect of the finished product. When you control all of the ingredients, the true artistry of the chef can come out. Buying pre-ground meat means you're getting someone else's meat to make your burger.
The potential to make a superior product is definitely there and yes, it also applies to beer as well. Extract brewing removes a measure of control over part of the process, and I'm willing to bet there's a increase in the 'pride of ownership' because hey, you've taken a more advanced route to achieve your results.
My disagreement is with the box mac & cheese comparison, but I suppose it really isn't important.
...and now I'm curious about the ground meat. I'll have to try this.
@primesuspect said:
But, to be devil's advocate, an argument can be made that someone who grinds their own meat is going to make a mindblowing burger because they are getting not only the absolute freshest meat but can also control every aspect of the finished product. When you control all of the ingredients, the true artistry of the chef can come out. Buying pre-ground meat means you're getting someone else's meat to make your burger.
To be a devil's advocate to your devil's advocate, you didn't raise that cow yourself and control what it eats how young you slaughter it at.
There is a point of diminishing returns. You can go farther with the DIY portion of it, but at a certain point, you aren't getting a great increase in quality of finished product. Rather you are getting minute increases in final product while trading off simplicity to control.
To be devil's advocate advocate advocate I would argue that yes, farming your own beef DOES give you the ultimate control and that ultimately, it definitely could result in an even more amazing burger, because you raise the cow for the characteristics you want. There are indeed chefs that do this, or at the bare minimum dictate to a boutique farmer what exactly they want. You want beef that is raised at a specific altitude that eats a specific grass and is treated a specific way, then slaughtered and processed in a specific way and aged in a specific way with blocks of a specific sea salt in the aging room at a certain temperature, etc. All of these things actually happen and they do result in noticeably superior end product. It happens with coffee, it happens with beef, it happens with beer. I'm not suggesting that a homebrewer needs to go this route, but I'm simply saying that an argument can be made that making things from somebody else's packaged goods could result in a more generic and homogenous end product.
Tell me this, what could a homebrewer who uses a packaged mix do (besides adding different additives/ingredients) to differentiate their product from the guy down the street who uses the same mix?
@primesuspect said:
Tell me this, what could a homebrewer who uses a packaged mix do (besides adding different additives/ingredients) to differentiate their product from the guy down the street who uses the same mix?
@primesuspect said:
Tell me this, what could a homebrewer who uses a packaged mix do (besides adding different additives/ingredients) to differentiate their product from the guy down the street who uses the same mix?
One thing that I think is being lost in this discussion is that there's a step in between beer-in-a-can mix and all-grain. That's an extract-with-steeping-grains recipe. You use malt extract as your base, but then steep specialty grains and add your own hops. That's what I advocate @oni_dels try before jumping into all grain.
As for what you can different, since you make changing ingredients off limits then it doesn't matter much whether you're doing all-grain or not. With both you can change fermentation temperature and choose how fruity/clean it is. With all-grain the main difference is that you can also affect how much body is in the final beer. If you're doing extract you can mimic that by adding malto-dextrine (but you're adding a different ingredient).
So what is the advantage of all-grain? You can use a wider variety of base malts. Don't want 2 row? Use Marris Otter or Vienna or Munich. There are some extracts available for these but you have a lot more to choose from with all-grain. Also you recover the cost of your equipment after about 20 batches.
tl;dr: it's not about beer-in-a-can vs all-grain, there's an in-between step of building recipes with extracts as the main fermentable and that's where you start to understand what tools you have to make the beer you want.
1
oni_delsDrunk French CanadianMontréal, Québec.Icrontian
well all this to say... im gonna buy a plain pale ale syrup, and buy cascade hops and do a dry hop and/or add it to the fermenting. i'll experiment a bit before going full grain.
it's like college. i'll fool around for a bit and see what i like
@oni_dels said:
well all this to say... im gonna buy a plain pale ale syrup, and buy cascade hops and do a dry hop and/or add it to the fermenting. i'll experiment a bit before going full grain.
it's like college. i'll fool around for a bit and see what i like
Sounds like a tasty result is in your future.
In other news, I dry hopped some kombucha last week and tried it a couple days ago. While I probably had too much (many?) hops for the quantity of liquid, I think I've found a good mix of hops for a Tank 7 clone
@oni_dels said:
well all this to say... im gonna buy a plain pale ale syrup, and buy cascade hops and do a dry hop and/or add it to the fermenting. i'll experiment a bit before going full grain.
it's like college. i'll fool around for a bit and see what i like
Can I make a suggestion? Try steeping 1 pound of Crystal 40 malt in a grain bag at 150°F for 30 minutes in a couple gallons of water before bringing it up to a boil. Adding specialty grains will allow you to customize the recipe to your own liking. If you want to mess around more, check out some popular specialty grains that you can steep in your wort.
Also, you might want to pick up 2 cans of syrup for a 5g batch - one can usually isn't enough.
As a reference, check out this Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone recipe (PDF) - it's a straight forward pale ale with a bit of malt body. The specialty grains add the malt backbone and the later hop additions add the hop flavors and aromas.
2
oni_delsDrunk French CanadianMontréal, Québec.Icrontian
so i'm reading the brewing guide everyone recommended, and in the sugar section they say you can use maple syrup or honey instead of other sugars.
how does it work? is it still prior to bottling? should i put it in at a different step of the fermentation? should i boil it in water first?
anyone has done this before? how was the taste after?
@oni_dels said:
so i'm reading the brewing guide everyone recommended, and in the sugar section they say you can use maple syrup or honey instead of other sugars.
how does it work? is it still prior to bottling? should i put it in at a different step of the fermentation? should i boil it in water first?
anyone has done this before? how was the taste after?
I've used honey a few times. You has to dissolve in a little water and heat it as to kill any bacteria etc. It left a distinctly honey taste. Also I found the carb levels to be uneven. You would still add before bottling to carb the beer. I just found corn sugar to be the most consistent and non taste altering method of carving my beer bottles.
You can also add it near the end of your boil if you want to add a little more punch to your beer. If that interests you I'd find a recipe instead of making it right away.
0
oni_delsDrunk French CanadianMontréal, Québec.Icrontian
@Karma said:
I just found corn sugar to be the most consistent and non taste altering method of carving my beer bottles.
my goal is to add a little twist to the taste. plus i already have a can of good maple syrup laying around, so i figured might as well use it. from what i read, i should use 1.25cups for a 5gal batch. i'm just unsure in how much water i should boil it (i'm guessing not a lot, like .75/1cups)
Comments
@oni_dels what kind of questions do you have? Have you read How to Brew? (the web version is outdated, but it contains most of what you need to know)
I think you should brew a beer that you like, so if you like English ales or stouts then go with that. If you like Belgians or lagers, you can make those with varying levels of ingenuity. I made my first lager by putting it in a Rubbermaid cooler filled with water, then swapped out 4 frozen 1/2 liter bottles every 12 hours. It kept it cool enough.
If you haven't brewed before with specialty grains and hops, I would recommend getting that process down before trying to design your own recipes. But that's because I'm a planner and so if you want to throw some stuff in a pot and see what happens, then do that. Your homebrew shop can hook you up with a recipe and ingredients for whatever style you're thinking of.
If you get a turkey-fryer to do a full boil outside you'll also need a wort chiller to cool it down after, so put that in your budget. And you'll still want to use some malt extract (the syrup-y substance or a powder) unless you want to jump right into all-grain brewing. You can get light, unhopped malt extract that can act as a base for your beer without limiting your creativity too much.
well, i literally just got the book, 5mins ago. so i know what i'm doing in my daily commute for the rest of the week.
i'll see if i have major questions after it i guess, but i'm a little fuzzy on the whole boiling cereals etc.
i've done brews with little home kit, but that's rather easy: you follow a recipe and wait for a while. but it did help me getting accustom to the fermenter and carboy and tubing and wtv.
That book should answer most of your questions. If you have more after going through it let us know and I'm sure someone will have the answers for you. Don't worry about boiling grains (you steep them, then take them out before boiling) and be open to using some syrup or powder in your recipes for now.
I did something similar. I've only been doing 1 gallon batches, so I haven't invested in any bulky equipment like a dedicated lagering fridge. For this recipe (used this calculator), I did the primary with the carboy sitting in a water bath with frozen water bottles. It got a bit warmer than I'd like, but worked well enough. Then I racked into the secondary and put the carboy in a cooler with frozen bottles changed once or twice a day:
Doing a partial mash is a great way to go to get started. You get to experience the alchemy part of brewing without having to mess with lautering.
The Oktoberfest recipe above was the result of a random urge one day to make a lager without proper equipment, or having ever done a partial mash by myself. I just went down to my local HBS, grabbed some liquid Oktoberfest yeast, some hops that sounded German, a pound of DME, and some grains that smelled like grandma's house. That's the caramel malt in the oversized tea bag:
It all turned out okay! Eventually, anyway -
I thought the fermentation quit early, and the taste after being in secondary for awhile still wasn't good. It was oily, almost savory. I've frequently read advice that if it doesn't taste right, it may just need more time. Sometimes much more time. So I bottled it, stuck it in the corner, and forgot about it for a couple months. Until I heard an explosion one night:
The fermentation definitely started again. I stuck all the bottles in the fridge to hopefully knock the yeast down, and double-bagged all the bottles in case they blew. I tried a bottle after they chilled, and it was a solid, decent Oktoberfest despite my ghetto technique! Now my only regret (besides the bottle bomb cleanup) was that I only had a few bottles since it was a gallon batch.
1) awesome.
2) go to your city's public water website and get a water report. Compare it to the table HERE to figure out what type of beers are best suited to your water without any modifications. I'd start with something that you can just do without any water modification.
3) temps will also hinder what you can do. Lagering in an apartment will be tough, but you could do it with a tub of salted ice water that you monitor regularly. I'd personally stick to some sort of Ale, or Belgian because its easier to keep something constantly warm than cold.
4) all-grain brewing takes a fair bit more volume to work with. Mashing requires you to put your full volume of grain with most of your water at one time, so you'll want something in the area of 8 gallons to do this in.
5) if you aren't on a tight budget, consider electric brew in a bag systems.
Let me know if you have any questions.
i used distilled water for my previous batch, is that ok?
It's not the best. Like all living things yeast needs certain nutrients and minerals to thrive. Distilled water strips all that away. So unless you throw in some yeast nutrients as well your yeast will be struggling. There is a whole section on water in that How to Brew book you bought. It will explain it better and go into more detail.
I usually buy gallons of spring water because filling up a pot takes forever otherwise.
That's fine, since you used syrup. Malt extracts have all the minerals you want already in them.
Personally I would ignore water chemistry until after you have a few batches under your belt, but that's just me. I have been brewing for 8 years and still ignore water chemistry beyond a carbon filter to get chloramines out. Depends on how nerdy you want to get.
Did not see was still using syrup. I thought he was talking all-grain. My b.
was on syrup, switching to all grain for my next batch. but trying to get as much info as i can before
Why the rush to all-grain?
I've been brewing for 8 years, I make plenty of all-grain beers, I've brewed with professionals. My last 3 batches have been extract. Extract beers have won awards.
I love good all grain beers. I love good extract beers. It's easier to make a good extract beer. It requires less equipment to make a good extract beer, and the grains were mashed by professionals so you don't have to worry about the starch conversion. The reason I chose extract for my last 3 batches was because they did not need special base malts like rye and they were not extremely light beers like Pilsners. All grain requires more time and equipment, and requires a greater attention to detail. It also gives you more control over the final gravity, protein levels and more.
Take a look at MoreBeer's Evolution of a Homebrewer. I agree with them in that those are the logical steps to improve your beer, except for kegging. Fermentation control through temperature, oxygen, and proper pitching rates will improve your beer much more than controlling mash temperature (especially if you are doing a single-step-infusion step).
I'm not trying to scare you off; all-grain isn't impossible. You can start out with it if you really want to. I just don't want you to have the impression that extract beers are bad, or that you aren't doing it yourself if you use extracts.
If you do go all-grain, I recommend this cooler deal for $230.
it's more of a "extract isn't really hard" type of thing. when i say "yeah, i brew my own beer", but do extract, i feel like i'm saying "yeah i can cook", but only do mac & cheeze from the box. like, it's not really hard to just empty a pouch and follow instructions.
i did like the beers i made from syrup and wouldn't mind doing more, but i really want the greater challenge and greater rewards of all grain
I'm going to disagree with you on this. If I'm making a burger, I don't grind my own meat - I buy it already ground.
You're focused on one ingredient and its preparation, but I'm guessing you've forgotten about another: hops. Do you grow and dry your own, or do you buy the pouches of already prepared hops?
Every one of my brews has been extract. For the last few years they've been recipes of my own making. It is definitely not a mac & cheese situation. You still have to know the flavors, color, texture, bitterness, aroma, and percentage you're after and tweak things until the desired results are achieved.
But, to be devil's advocate, an argument can be made that someone who grinds their own meat is going to make a mindblowing burger because they are getting not only the absolute freshest meat but can also control every aspect of the finished product. When you control all of the ingredients, the true artistry of the chef can come out. Buying pre-ground meat means you're getting someone else's meat to make your burger.
Damnit.... now I REALLY want to get the meat grinding attachment for our KitchenAid so that I can make sausage in addition to the bacon I've been curing. CURSE YOU ICRONTIC!
I hear you, but if someone says "I bought pre-made patties from the store and made an OK burger, I think my next step is to buy a $300 meat grinder and start making my own burgers from beef cuts" my response would be "you could save some money and get better results by focusing on your seasonings and grilling to perfection, then upgrade later".
In this case the recipe design and fermentation will effect beer orders of magnitude more than using extract over all grain, for most recipes. All-grain definitely changes the final product, but if you don't have your fermentation game down you're not making the biggest improvements you could be. And there's a good chance your first 1-2 batches after going all-grain will be worse than extract, until you get your mash and sparge techniques down.
I picked one up last week
Let me know how it works. I mean, it's KitchenAid, so I assume it will be fine, but on the off chance that it doesn't work well I'd rather not spend the money.
Will do.
The potential to make a superior product is definitely there and yes, it also applies to beer as well. Extract brewing removes a measure of control over part of the process, and I'm willing to bet there's a increase in the 'pride of ownership' because hey, you've taken a more advanced route to achieve your results.
My disagreement is with the box mac & cheese comparison, but I suppose it really isn't important.
...and now I'm curious about the ground meat. I'll have to try this.
edit: SCIENCE!
To be a devil's advocate to your devil's advocate, you didn't raise that cow yourself and control what it eats how young you slaughter it at.
There is a point of diminishing returns. You can go farther with the DIY portion of it, but at a certain point, you aren't getting a great increase in quality of finished product. Rather you are getting minute increases in final product while trading off simplicity to control.
To be devil's advocate advocate advocate I would argue that yes, farming your own beef DOES give you the ultimate control and that ultimately, it definitely could result in an even more amazing burger, because you raise the cow for the characteristics you want. There are indeed chefs that do this, or at the bare minimum dictate to a boutique farmer what exactly they want. You want beef that is raised at a specific altitude that eats a specific grass and is treated a specific way, then slaughtered and processed in a specific way and aged in a specific way with blocks of a specific sea salt in the aging room at a certain temperature, etc. All of these things actually happen and they do result in noticeably superior end product. It happens with coffee, it happens with beef, it happens with beer. I'm not suggesting that a homebrewer needs to go this route, but I'm simply saying that an argument can be made that making things from somebody else's packaged goods could result in a more generic and homogenous end product.
Tell me this, what could a homebrewer who uses a packaged mix do (besides adding different additives/ingredients) to differentiate their product from the guy down the street who uses the same mix?
Alter or augment the recipe.
One thing that I think is being lost in this discussion is that there's a step in between beer-in-a-can mix and all-grain. That's an extract-with-steeping-grains recipe. You use malt extract as your base, but then steep specialty grains and add your own hops. That's what I advocate @oni_dels try before jumping into all grain.
As for what you can different, since you make changing ingredients off limits then it doesn't matter much whether you're doing all-grain or not. With both you can change fermentation temperature and choose how fruity/clean it is. With all-grain the main difference is that you can also affect how much body is in the final beer. If you're doing extract you can mimic that by adding malto-dextrine (but you're adding a different ingredient).
So what is the advantage of all-grain? You can use a wider variety of base malts. Don't want 2 row? Use Marris Otter or Vienna or Munich. There are some extracts available for these but you have a lot more to choose from with all-grain. Also you recover the cost of your equipment after about 20 batches.
tl;dr: it's not about beer-in-a-can vs all-grain, there's an in-between step of building recipes with extracts as the main fermentable and that's where you start to understand what tools you have to make the beer you want.
well all this to say... im gonna buy a plain pale ale syrup, and buy cascade hops and do a dry hop and/or add it to the fermenting. i'll experiment a bit before going full grain.
it's like college. i'll fool around for a bit and see what i like
Sounds like a tasty result is in your future.
In other news, I dry hopped some kombucha last week and tried it a couple days ago. While I probably had too much (many?) hops for the quantity of liquid, I think I've found a good mix of hops for a Tank 7 clone
Can I make a suggestion? Try steeping 1 pound of Crystal 40 malt in a grain bag at 150°F for 30 minutes in a couple gallons of water before bringing it up to a boil. Adding specialty grains will allow you to customize the recipe to your own liking. If you want to mess around more, check out some popular specialty grains that you can steep in your wort.
Also, you might want to pick up 2 cans of syrup for a 5g batch - one can usually isn't enough.
As a reference, check out this Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone recipe (PDF) - it's a straight forward pale ale with a bit of malt body. The specialty grains add the malt backbone and the later hop additions add the hop flavors and aromas.
so i'm reading the brewing guide everyone recommended, and in the sugar section they say you can use maple syrup or honey instead of other sugars.
how does it work? is it still prior to bottling? should i put it in at a different step of the fermentation? should i boil it in water first?
anyone has done this before? how was the taste after?
I've used honey a few times. You has to dissolve in a little water and heat it as to kill any bacteria etc. It left a distinctly honey taste. Also I found the carb levels to be uneven. You would still add before bottling to carb the beer. I just found corn sugar to be the most consistent and non taste altering method of carving my beer bottles.
You can also add it near the end of your boil if you want to add a little more punch to your beer. If that interests you I'd find a recipe instead of making it right away.
my goal is to add a little twist to the taste. plus i already have a can of good maple syrup laying around, so i figured might as well use it. from what i read, i should use 1.25cups for a 5gal batch. i'm just unsure in how much water i should boil it (i'm guessing not a lot, like .75/1cups)