Haswell. June 3rd

fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
edited April 2013 in Hardware
I've waited and waited. I've skipped Sandy, Sandy-E and Ivy. I've waited for PCIE 3.0 full 16x on more than one slot(still waiting). I've waited for native SATA 6Gb/s on more than 2 ports.

My once beast of a i7-950 X58 running at 4.2Ghz has served. It has made a many AMD CPU's cry. It has some fancy tri-channel DDR3. It even ran HD6970 Crossfire for a bit.

It has crunched on sammich. It has done me well.

Z87. i7 4770K.

Come to papa
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Comments

  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited April 2013
    > 16 lanes PCIe3
    > sads
    UPSLynx
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    I guess I'm too old to get that
    JBoogaloo
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited April 2013
    Haswell only has 16 lanes of PCIe3, so: x8/x8, x8/x4/x4 or x16 for GPUs. No bandwidth left for PCIe SSDs.
  • PirateNinjaPirateNinja Icrontian
    “That Really Rustled My Jimmies” is catchphrase meme that conveys feelings of discontent or discomfort in response to someone else’s post in imageboards and forums.
    ¯\(°_o)/¯
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    edited April 2013
    Thrax said:

    Haswell only has 16 lanes of PCIe3, so: x8/x8, x8/x4/x4 or x16 for GPUs. No bandwidth left for PCIe SSDs.

    WTF.

    I'm curious why they can't/don't go beyond 16 lanes?

    edit> also thanks @PirateNinja :cheers:
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    I guessing no need for it? Will 4K gaming bring the need?
  • PirateNinjaPirateNinja Icrontian
    I'm going to guess just for fun, but I have no idea: Maybe because they are insisting on integrating what was once northbridge/southbridge functionality in to the cpu and that is causing some physical limitations.
  • shwaipshwaip bluffin' with my muffin Icrontian
    definitely going to be looking at a new desktop build or a haswell ultra book when they're available.

    is haswell-e going to be a thing?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited April 2013
    Because Haswell is a "performance"-segmented chip, and these users generally don't buy multi-GPU. It's a conscious decision, not a technical one.

    Haswell-e will be a thing.
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    edited April 2013
    I'm confused by your use of the word "performance" here.

    What do users build multi-GPU systems on, "Budget"?

    I mean I suppose Sandy-E is budget to Ivy.
  • shwaipshwaip bluffin' with my muffin Icrontian
    edited April 2013
    I assume he's differentiating between enthusiast (multi-gpu/gaming) and performance (actual useful computing) systems. Just a guess though.

    (and by useful computing, I mean calculating lots of digits of pi really fast)
    midga
  • mertesnmertesn I am Bobby Miller Yukon, OK Icrontian
    Thrax said:

    Because Haswell is a "performance"-segmented chip, and these users generally don't buy multi-GPU. It's a conscious decision, not a technical one.

    Haswell-e will be a thing.

    Haswell-E probably won't come out until at least a year after Ivy Bridge E (unless they skip that one altogether)
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    shwaip said:

    I assume he's differentiating between enthusiast (multi-gpu/gaming) and performance (actual useful computing) systems. Just a guess though.

    (and by useful computing, I mean calculating lots of digits of pi really fast)

    lol. So will Haswell not be a good gaming platform?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited April 2013
    Performance vs. enthusiast market segments. Performance segment would be people who spend $200-300 on a CPU (or a GPU, for that matter).

    Enthusiast segment is $400+, and that's where all the bells and whistles kick in. That's Haswell-E.
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    bollocks

    guess I keep waiting
  • shwaipshwaip bluffin' with my muffin Icrontian
    Thrax said:

    Performance vs. enthusiast market segments. Performance segment would be people who spend $200-300 on a CPU (or a GPU, for that matter).

    Enthusiast segment is $400+, and that's where all the bells and whistles kick in. That's Haswell-E.

    What's the current/near future (within 6 months) status of the enthusiast market? IB-E sounds like it's a maybe from a few things I've read.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    Haswell-E is an inevitability. They need it for workstation, and there's virtually no difference between Xeon and i7 when you get into that segment.
  • AlexDeGruvenAlexDeGruven Wut? Meechigan Icrontian
    Keep this in mind, as well: http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/01/intel-haswell-idle-states-reportedly-dislike-some-psus/
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    This is an issue for motherboard makers, not PSUs. It's the motherboard's job to downregulate current with its circuitry to deliver the right amperage to the CPU socket. Every board will be within spec to ship to market.
  • mertesnmertesn I am Bobby Miller Yukon, OK Icrontian
    I really wish Intel would start releasing the -E products at the same time as their performance/mainstream parts... It just doesn't seem right to have to pick between the latest architecture and the beastiest CPU. The enthusiast class should be both at once.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited May 2013
    Well, if the last several generations of -E is any indicator, there's preeeeetty much no benefit to purchasing it.
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    Save the aforementioned PCI-e lanes.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    It's not a deal at all for two GPUs. x8/x8 on PCIe3 is the same bandwidth as x16/x16 on PCIe2, which is clearly enough for any modern graphics config.

    Going to three GPUs on PCIe3, you'd have x8/x4/x4, which is the same as x16/x8/x8 in PCIe2 terms. You will lose 5-7% on those x4 slots, but the performance scaling is likely sufficient to overcome this hurdle. 4x GPUs is probably out of the question on HWL non-E parts.

    It's not a huge deal, but someone with dreams of 3-4 GPUs should be conscious of the platform limitations.
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    I dream of 60fps 4K gaming and SSD's pushing over 1GB/s (Raid0 or single)

    AMD Eyefinity/nVidia Surround is the icing on that cake
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    Well, since you seem to want that much GPU, try looking at THIS. No, not out yet, but.... :) We can dream....
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    edited May 2013
    Straight_Man said:

    Well, since you seem to want that much GPU, try looking at THIS. No, not out yet, but.... :) We can dream....

    was already in my shopping cart ;) looks sweet with dual GTX 670's

  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    An OCZ Revodrive can already touch 1 GB/sec almost. Video cards are now good enough that almost no one needs more than 2 crossfired.
  • mertesnmertesn I am Bobby Miller Yukon, OK Icrontian
    Tim said:

    An OCZ Revodrive can already touch 1 GB/sec almost. Video cards are now good enough that almost no one needs more than 2 crossfired.

    What does one have to do with the other?
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    mertesn said:

    Tim said:

    An OCZ Revodrive can already touch 1 GB/sec almost. Video cards are now good enough that almost no one needs more than 2 crossfired.

    What does one have to do with the other?
    This bit of brilliance™ brought you by :tim:
  • shwaipshwaip bluffin' with my muffin Icrontian
    edited July 2013
    So I'm going to bump this thread, because I might guess that other people (especially @fatcat ) might be looking to build a haswell system.

    One thing I've found is that there are roughly 2 tiers of performance/oc haswell motherboards. The first costs around $200, and supports 2x SLI. At this price point, I'm probably choosing between the gigabyte z87x-oc and the z87x-ud5h. The first is targeted more towards the extreme ocers (on-motherboard buttons to tweak bios params, ability to power the cpu before it boots to mitigate the cold bug under ln2, etc), the second is a more feature-rich board.

    The second tier is around $400, and includes a PLX chip, which adds more PCIE lanes does some management of the PCIE lane bandwidth, enabling up to 4x SLI. A couple examples of gigabyte boards on this level are the z87x-oc force (appears to perhaps OC not quite as well as the z87x-oc from the xtremesystems thread), the second being the G1.Sniper 5, which has such useful features as a built-in killer nic, replaceable op-amps for your audio, and includes a wireless lan card. I haven't really looked into it, but I don't know if the addition of the PLX chip allows for the use of a PCIE ssd + 2x video cards, something that FC seemed to be interested in.

    The clear advantage of the second tier is that you don't have to go to a -e part to get 4x SLI, but the disadvantage is that it seems to cost $200 more to get it. You also seem to have to choose between (for me) unnecessary OC features, or unnecessary bells and whistles (LOL killer NIC).

    One thing I can't seem to find is how much ram speed/timings are important, or really a memory recommendation at all. This leads me to believe that they really aren't too important, but I'd hate to find out they were after purchasing the memory. Has anyone else been looking at haswell and come across this information?

    I was also considering building a IB-E system, but I guess, unsurprisingly, it's nothing special. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4960x-ivy-bridge-e-benchmark,3557.html I think I'll just build a haswell system in a month or so.


    (edited to correct my statement about the plx chip)
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