I'd propose you guys make a reasonable peace. Eg Joe give Garg Rostov or something. Then you guys all bind together and hurt me somehow so I stop accelerating forward and find a reasonable winner out of your new bunch. That's how this game usually works, the pendulum swings on a 3d plane ... one way to another to another ... and whomever it swings toward in the end wins.
Joe you were warred in part because of the sugar but primarily because at the time you were the clear world power and if you weren't stopped there was going to be hell to pay for everyone. I honestly thought you were going to hit Garg after the land grab and roll through him to me which is when I suggested to Garg the alliance which led to war.
I can't do another WoS. that was 2 years? of me building up to a culture victory just to get nuked and when it was all done I hadn't even met all the city states the map was so big.
Honestly, I think the "all the games end war" mentality is the result of the twin flames series more than ffa/wos. Ocean warfare is srz bzns and don't team up basil/dan because they just want to boat dick everyone...whatever that means.
Personally, I'm cool with continuing to try to win peacefully, but usually losing. We started a few always-peace games for some variety, and those are neat. I tried to join an always-war game to force me to step into some big boots, but I guess that hasn't gotten started yet?
Another WoS game would be neat, but I want better neighbors next time.
More than anything, I want to play some CivBE with you guys to really change it up, but the GMR CivBE features are 8 months behind schedule now, so who knows if that will ever come to pass.
In this game, I guess I'll have to look at how important that CS is to my operations. Keep in mind, I have basically unlimited access to mercenaries at this point. Defending the city successfully is an option for me, but I'll have to do some math fto see if it's worth hiring enough mercs to do it.
I mean you can only have one unit in a city at any moment, so even if you can buy mercs in a puppet (I forget if you can buy units in a puppet city) it would be 1 per turn because your city tile would fill up. I also have your city entirely surrounded by foreign legion, canon, ironclads and an elephant for good measure.
That said.. I just read this:
"The puppeted city-state forever loses its status as a city-state and cannot be liberated, though another civilization can puppet or annex it through war."
And now I have a sad. There is no point in me fighting you if I can't liberate the city state. So if you want to keep it @CB, fine. Harrumph. We can peace and I can send my ironclads to Rostov or elsewhere.
@PirateNinja said:
I'd propose you guys make a reasonable peace. Ie Joe give Garg Rostov or something. Then you guys all bind together and hurt me somehow so I stop accelerating forward and find a reasonable winner out of your new bunch. That's how this game usually works, the pendulum swings on a 3d plane ... one way to another to another ... and whomever it swings toward in the end wins.
I completely understand why it was done and it was my fault for not defending myself better, but whatever. I may have had more land, but I definitely was still behind you in science and culture, and now I'm even more so. Garg's only shot at winning alone now is by domination. I'm so far behind in just about everything I doubt I have any shot anymore anyways.
There's always an angle. If you can peace then you can concentrate on your differentiation which is your large number of cities. That can be good for science and military basically. Get congress to pass scholars in residence, do good with your spies and do whatever you can to stop the trade embargo from passing (ie as part of a peace deal with Garg have him vote against it). Then do research agreements. Sell of your military assets and invest everything in education. Sure you become a military target but what other option do you have at this point? Eventually you can surpass everyone via population but it requires slow uninterrupted growth. Then you can decide if it is science or a second attempt at domination that you want.
You might be completely lost or you might not be. If you are burned out, and it isn't fun ... nobody is going to judge you in the least if you want to retire from this game or if you are burned out on Civ all together. It's all good, we can do some beyond earth like CB suggested even though the mechanics of multiplayer are difficult without GMR and I still find that game maddeningly shit. But I'd play with you guys .. because turns.
@PirateNinja said:
I mean you can only have one unit in a city at any moment, so even if you can buy mercs in a puppet (I forget if you can buy units in a puppet city) it would be 1 per turn because your city tile would fill up. I also have your city entirely surrounded by foreign legion, canon, ironclads and an elephant for good measure.
Mercs can be built in Puppet cities, and they can move and attack on the turn they are built. The ramifications of this are: I don't need a standing army to defend myself. I can just throw coins at you until you go away.
That's awesome! I don't care to fight you anymore since I can't liberate the city-state but if you want to have a go at it just to see how this strategy works I'm open to it.
More on the side of strategy, if we fight it out this is how I imagine it goes down: Landsknechts are weak compared to legion and great war infantry which is my unit of choice now. You could probably extend the cities life by 1 turn by mass developing them. Even if put them in the ocean tiles next to the city to block ironclads, the OP city upgraded ironclads would kill them in 1 hit each giving proximity to the city. I could recall 3 frigates to help bomb the city next turn and with the legion already at proximity with the city and the canon in range I don't think you would get anywhere. With zone of control your purchased units can only move 1 tile away from the city and I already block 2 or 3? of the free tiles.... But I'm up for trying it. Just be aware that I will raze the city if we do. Or we can just peace and forget about it. I don't care either way.
@CrazyJoe said:
I'm getting bored of Perpetual War (Much the same way you and Basil did in WoS (which I just won on a Space Victory btw.)
Yeah, perpetual war was by far the most interesting part of that horrendously slow game; ruining Dan's dream of a morally superior victory was the only motivation I had towards the end.
@PirateNinja said:
I can't do another WoS. that was 2 years? of me building up to a culture victory just to get nuked
So, the turn on this one just got back around to me, so I could look at it. I didn't take Sidney specifically to detriment the Siamese people. I remember when I took it, it was right before I discovered the New World, and it was the only city state left that I knew that wasn't already my friend, in fact, I think they hated me a little bit, and they weren't very far away, so it was the most logical choice. I didn't even know that it was a major blow to the Siamese empire. (I mean, I know that everytime I take a CS it's bound to affect someone, but it's not like I was checking on all the relationships, and picking who to hurt. Typically in this game, I'm making my decisions based on what's best for my empire's health, not what's worst for anyone else's. That's also why I very rarely declare war, it's almost never the best thing for my people, even if it might be the best tactic for winning the actual game.)
I know there are a lot of notifications each turn but if you guys could please check for trade notifications. My last 4 trade offers have just been ignored.
My blitzkrieg was stopped when Siam finally convinced us to all stop and share a Coke®. What were we doing, fighting the glorious culture that was showing us the way? GG @PirateNinja
The Dutch people take solace in the fact that we called this victory 9 months ago IRL. But the warmongering Germans payed little heed and handed the victory to the Siamese. GG all!
Comments
I'd propose you guys make a reasonable peace. Eg Joe give Garg Rostov or something. Then you guys all bind together and hurt me somehow so I stop accelerating forward and find a reasonable winner out of your new bunch. That's how this game usually works, the pendulum swings on a 3d plane ... one way to another to another ... and whomever it swings toward in the end wins.
Joe you were warred in part because of the sugar but primarily because at the time you were the clear world power and if you weren't stopped there was going to be hell to pay for everyone. I honestly thought you were going to hit Garg after the land grab and roll through him to me which is when I suggested to Garg the alliance which led to war.
I can't do another WoS. that was 2 years? of me building up to a culture victory just to get nuked and when it was all done I hadn't even met all the city states the map was so big.
Honestly, I think the "all the games end war" mentality is the result of the twin flames series more than ffa/wos. Ocean warfare is srz bzns and don't team up basil/dan because they just want to boat dick everyone...whatever that means.
Personally, I'm cool with continuing to try to win peacefully, but usually losing. We started a few always-peace games for some variety, and those are neat. I tried to join an always-war game to force me to step into some big boots, but I guess that hasn't gotten started yet?
Another WoS game would be neat, but I want better neighbors next time.
More than anything, I want to play some CivBE with you guys to really change it up, but the GMR CivBE features are 8 months behind schedule now, so who knows if that will ever come to pass.
In this game, I guess I'll have to look at how important that CS is to my operations. Keep in mind, I have basically unlimited access to mercenaries at this point. Defending the city successfully is an option for me, but I'll have to do some math fto see if it's worth hiring enough mercs to do it.
I mean you can only have one unit in a city at any moment, so even if you can buy mercs in a puppet (I forget if you can buy units in a puppet city) it would be 1 per turn because your city tile would fill up. I also have your city entirely surrounded by foreign legion, canon, ironclads and an elephant for good measure.
That said.. I just read this:
"The puppeted city-state forever loses its status as a city-state and cannot be liberated, though another civilization can puppet or annex it through war."
And now I have a sad. There is no point in me fighting you if I can't liberate the city state. So if you want to keep it @CB, fine. Harrumph. We can peace and I can send my ironclads to Rostov or elsewhere.
I completely understand why it was done and it was my fault for not defending myself better, but whatever. I may have had more land, but I definitely was still behind you in science and culture, and now I'm even more so. Garg's only shot at winning alone now is by domination. I'm so far behind in just about everything I doubt I have any shot anymore anyways.
There's always an angle. If you can peace then you can concentrate on your differentiation which is your large number of cities. That can be good for science and military basically. Get congress to pass scholars in residence, do good with your spies and do whatever you can to stop the trade embargo from passing (ie as part of a peace deal with Garg have him vote against it). Then do research agreements. Sell of your military assets and invest everything in education. Sure you become a military target but what other option do you have at this point? Eventually you can surpass everyone via population but it requires slow uninterrupted growth. Then you can decide if it is science or a second attempt at domination that you want.
You might be completely lost or you might not be. If you are burned out, and it isn't fun ... nobody is going to judge you in the least if you want to retire from this game or if you are burned out on Civ all together. It's all good, we can do some beyond earth like CB suggested even though the mechanics of multiplayer are difficult without GMR and I still find that game maddeningly shit. But I'd play with you guys .. because turns.
Mercs can be built in Puppet cities, and they can move and attack on the turn they are built. The ramifications of this are: I don't need a standing army to defend myself. I can just throw coins at you until you go away.
That's awesome! I don't care to fight you anymore since I can't liberate the city-state but if you want to have a go at it just to see how this strategy works I'm open to it.
More on the side of strategy, if we fight it out this is how I imagine it goes down: Landsknechts are weak compared to legion and great war infantry which is my unit of choice now. You could probably extend the cities life by 1 turn by mass developing them. Even if put them in the ocean tiles next to the city to block ironclads, the OP city upgraded ironclads would kill them in 1 hit each giving proximity to the city. I could recall 3 frigates to help bomb the city next turn and with the legion already at proximity with the city and the canon in range I don't think you would get anywhere. With zone of control your purchased units can only move 1 tile away from the city and I already block 2 or 3? of the free tiles.... But I'm up for trying it. Just be aware that I will raze the city if we do. Or we can just peace and forget about it. I don't care either way.
MFW reading this thread.
Yeah, perpetual war was by far the most interesting part of that horrendously slow game; ruining Dan's dream of a morally superior victory was the only motivation I had towards the end.
So, the turn on this one just got back around to me, so I could look at it. I didn't take Sidney specifically to detriment the Siamese people. I remember when I took it, it was right before I discovered the New World, and it was the only city state left that I knew that wasn't already my friend, in fact, I think they hated me a little bit, and they weren't very far away, so it was the most logical choice. I didn't even know that it was a major blow to the Siamese empire. (I mean, I know that everytime I take a CS it's bound to affect someone, but it's not like I was checking on all the relationships, and picking who to hurt. Typically in this game, I'm making my decisions based on what's best for my empire's health, not what's worst for anyone else's. That's also why I very rarely declare war, it's almost never the best thing for my people, even if it might be the best tactic for winning the actual game.)
I know there are a lot of notifications each turn but if you guys could please check for trade notifications. My last 4 trade offers have just been ignored.
Ugh. I know one of those was me. Sorry.
I wish the game forced us to respond to those before end of turn.
Grats, PirateNinja! We were soundly trounced by your blue-jeans, and our rally to halt your culture was too little, too late.
My blitzkrieg was stopped when Siam finally convinced us to all stop and share a Coke®. What were we doing, fighting the glorious culture that was showing us the way? GG @PirateNinja
The Dutch people take solace in the fact that we called this victory 9 months ago IRL. But the warmongering Germans payed little heed and handed the victory to the Siamese. GG all!
gg, thanks guys.
GG. Well played, Dan.