And now that I've gotten that in, I want to say that I have mad respect for any woman who works through the shit to enjoy hardcore gaming. It's also <i>totally hot</i>.
Seriously, ladies, gamer boys love you for gaming with them. GQ is a winner.
This is one of the reasons I love Theresa so much : P
I think as gaming has moved out and progressed, the amount of female gamers has increased as well. I would really love to know how many of the 'silent' that we play with daily are actually girls.
It's interesting that this (with its bit about the less-than-welcoming reception in video games) was posted at the same time as the article about the icrontic community and how anonymity makes a jerk out of everyone.
"should I have to just get used to it?"
No. That guy was a dick. Chin up, we're all behind you!
GnomeQueen is a beautiful women... I mean that based on her forum persona, her in game personality, and in real life attitude. No one deserves the crap she has put up with but her ability to shrug off the idiotic remarks when she shouldn't have to is one of her many redeeming traits. Yes, she's cute and all... but that is just the whip cream and cherry on top...
My ex is solid gamer. She doesn't spend much time on the net so she never really had the problems you have. She's also a bit weird in that she really admires the female figure -- some people thought she was lesbian actually -- so she actually likes being exposed to oversexed women in gaming.
Make no mistake she's totally straight -- I can attest to that -- but she was never really affected by how gaming is such a predominantly male hobby. She likes strong female characters like Lara Croft, even if they have size D's. Among her favorite games were Tomb Raider, Parasite Eve (she is a huge Aya Brea fan) . She tried Mirror's Edge but did not like it (I didn't either).
If you're looking for more games with strong female characters, there's a lot to look at actually. Regardless of what most people say, Yuna from FF12 was a pretty solid heroine and she wasn't exactly stacked. I'm playing Settlers 6 right now and there's a very tasteful female knight there who isn't coming across as some oversexed Joan of Arc. Speaking of Joanne of Arc, that game had a solid female protagonist as well who wasn't just some sex symbol. Clive Barker's Jericho, while having been panned by every major review site on the net, had some very solid characters in my opinion and while there was sexual innuendo going on here and there (and really funny at that) I felt the three ladies on the team weren't over-sexed (except maybe for Church) and were pretty well-written all things considered. In Rainbow Six Vegas 2 you can play a female squad leader and she is tough as nails, all business, and really cool. I'm not seeing a dearth of good female characters in games, to be honest.
In the end, I guess I can understand why you are having a bit of a hard time online with a lot of immature horny young male gamers going TITS or GTFO. But really, are you trying to actively draw attention that you are a female gamer? My girlfriend plays Left 4 Dead and never makes a big deal about being a girl, people never bother her about it. Do you tell everyone you chat with that you're a girl? If you do, you may want to be less obvious about it, and you may find less harassment as a result. I realize if some people hear your voice they'll know you're a girl, but if you're nonchalant about it maybe they'll think you're just a girly-sounding guy? And just let it be?
So while I sympathize with your plight, I don't really understand why you are having problems. Maybe just a slight paradigm shift will make all your problems go away?
My ex is solid gamer. She doesn't spend much time on the net so she never really had the problems you have. She's also a bit weird in that she really admires the female figure -- some people thought she was lesbian actually -- so she actually likes being exposed to oversexed women in gaming.
Make no mistake she's totally straight -- I can attest to that -- but she was never really affected by how gaming is such a predominantly male hobby. She likes strong female characters like Lara Croft, even if they have size D's. Among her favorite games were Tomb Raider, Parasite Eve (she is a huge Aya Brea fan) . She tried Mirror's Edge but did not like it (I didn't either).
If you're looking for more games with strong female characters, there's a lot to look at actually. Regardless of what most people say, Yuna from FF12 was a pretty solid heroine and she wasn't exactly stacked. I'm playing Settlers 6 right now and there's a very tasteful female knight there who isn't coming across as some oversexed Joan of Arc. Speaking of Joanne of Arc, that game had a solid female protagonist as well who wasn't just some sex symbol. Clive Barker's Jericho, while having been panned by every major review site on the net, had some very solid characters in my opinion and while there was sexual innuendo going on here and there (and really funny at that) I felt the three ladies on the team weren't over-sexed (except maybe for Church) and were pretty well-written all things considered. In Rainbow Six Vegas 2 you can play a female squad leader and she is tough as nails, all business, and really cool. I'm not seeing a dearth of good female characters in games, to be honest.
In the end, I guess I can understand why you are having a bit of a hard time online with a lot of immature horny young male gamers going TITS or GTFO. But really, are you trying to actively draw attention that you are a female gamer? My girlfriend plays Left 4 Dead and never makes a big deal about being a girl, people never bother her about it. Do you tell everyone you chat with that you're a girl? If you do, you may want to be less obvious about it, and you may find less harassment as a result. I realize if some people hear your voice they'll know you're a girl, but if you're nonchalant about it maybe they'll think you're just a girly-sounding guy? And just let it be?
So while I sympathize with your plight, I don't really understand why you are having problems. Maybe just a slight paradigm shift will make all your problems go away?
Seriously?
She shouldn't HAVE to make any efforts to disguise the fact that she's a girl. "Be less obvious about it?" Are you kidding me right now?
So she's not allowed to TALK because she happens to be female?
I also wanted to say something else -- in my country LAN Parties are all the rage. LAN parties here though typically aren't the type you guys get in the US where you guys drive to a house with your PCs in tow and setup a LAN for a night of fragging.
Here LAN parties usually occur in shops that specialize in gaming LANs where people pay about half a dollar to play for an hour. The customers are predominantly men but we do get female gamers in there every now and then -- and I've never seen a case where a girl got sexually harassed for gaming in these shops.
I don't know what's up with that but I guess the world just looks much more gender-friendly from where I'm at.
She shouldn't HAVE to make any efforts to disguise the fact that she's a girl. "Be less obvious about it?" Are you kidding me right now?
So she's not allowed to TALK because she happens to be female?
That's a bunch of crap, man. Honestly.
I'm not saying "don't talk." I'm saying don't bring attention to it. Do people really just hear the voice once, go, "Wha it's a girl! Cooties!" or something? Again I've never experienced it myself but like I said, I go to LAN shops to play and there are women there playing as well, I've never seen any problems.
I guess anonymity on the net is just safer and more conducive to jerk offs, or is it just that the Xbox Live demographic is that sad and worthless?
I've also been playing Left 4 Dead a lot and played quite a few games with women -- yes they sound like women over their microphones. I never harassed them, and I never heard the other people in the game harass them either.
I guess it's the culture I live in. It's nowhere near as bad as what you've described, though granted I do game online in the same online space you do, I suppose I just haven't actually heard anything like that happen.
But that's the other thing. Is there a NEED to go "Hey guys, what's up?" The guys on this server are anonymous people you've never met. Why do you even need to introduce yourself? If you're gaming with friends and buddies then obviously there's no problem. You go "whassup?" and since they're your friends, I doubt you're gonna get any flack.
But if you're going into a new server where you don't know anyone, why do you even need to go, "whassup?" And if you already know the environment is going to be hostile to a female gamer, then you probably don't even want to try to become friends with these people.
GnomeQueen, what exactly are the situations that arise that get these people to harass you? How does it usually start? If you can identify how it usually starts, you may be able to find ways to avoid it -- hopefully ways that don't preclude throwing your headset mike away.
Yes, seriously. I don't say "Wassup!" on every server I join. If I go to one of my regulars, with people I regularly game with, then yes! I will say hi, how's it going.
But I assume that's not the kind of familiar environment GQ is having problems with. I'm assuming she's going into an unknown, hostile environment with potential dickheads lurking. In such a scenario it might be smarter NOT to go greet everyone.
I certainly don't. When I play on an unknown server, I typically just get in and play. I talk when I need to, like when I have to coordinate with teammates. And so does everyone else. I've just never experienced this ultra hostile environment that is being discussed, and I've heard quite a few women in the servers I've played on... Or at least I assume they're women.
I've played on American, Philippine, Japanese, British and Chinese servers. From my experience I don't hear women on American servers... Probably because of the problem you mentioned. I tend to hear a lot of women on British or European servers. On Asian servers you usually don't hear people talking.
excellent article, GQ. i totally empathize with some of the issues girl gamers have to face. way back in the day when i played counterstrike regularly, i never brought attention to myself or spoke up, because of the attention it would bring. these days, i play WoW almost exclusively, with an amazing guild, and i am so much more comfortable because i know i'm not going to get "omg ur a girl lolz!" whenever i speak up. i'll stop talking about me. i just wanted to let you know that you're my hero!
Server etiquette aside, I can't imagine anyone that thinks the ladies are inherently poorer players then the guys. Getting burninated by GnomeQueen or Anne bothers me about as much as getting backstabbed by UPS|Weezer. Scum that sexually harass others online are the reason we can't have nice people.
I agree with Thrax though, finding ladies with shared interests is nice. Also, if you enjoy RPGs you might like Final Fantasy 6 which has two strong female leads. Also, the female character arcs in Secret of Mana 2, Star Ocean 2, and the PS2 Romancing Saga are quite excellent.
GQ, I can only tell you that in the limited times that I have played TF2 with you, usually as you were catching me on fire, You have been a great sport and have added a special "sparkle" to the atmosphere that made it all the more fun. I wish there were more females gaming!!
If any male harasses you online during gaming, then in my opinion they don't have the balls to called men, they are weak and immature.
I have been gaming since... well, a very long time. And, yes, I am a woman, thank for noticing. I wasn't aware of any sort of gender bias til I began playing MMO's. I played Ultima Online back in "the day," EQ (Kunark onward, for those who remember that far back), WoW, DDO, LoTRO, Conan, Warhammer Online, plus dabbled in a few other worlds along the way. I think the introduction of voice chat was when things really started getting weird for us female gamers. Suddenly we became the center of attention--and for all the wrong reasons. Don't get me wrong, the pixellated gifts and chivalry ("u run! i will stand here and die") in response to my femininity were always amusing and, sometimes, even rather sweet. Really, other than the occasional a**hole and the incessant cyber invites (/ignore), it has been fun ride.
As for the boys' bad behavior... well... i have to agree with the others and echo what Brian said in another article: anonymity tends to breed disrespect. But other gamer girls make it tough on us too. Some of them absolutely eat up all that attention (I suspect that is why some of them play) and/or are tolerated in groups only because they are girls. Their bad behavior and less than l33t skills reflect on all of us because we are a minority.
But there are more and more of us all the time, it seems. It isn't nearly as unusual as it was 10-15 years ago. And there are more and more of us that are actually GOOD. We are an ever-increasing market for games. Maybe someday soon someone will recognize that it is time to stop pandering solely to the male population and their incessant need for "boobees"? :P
Thanks for all the interesting and thought-provoking posts, everyone. I have read quite a bit. It was nice to find something to which I felt qualified to contribute.
Aaah, Kunark, I miss those days. WTB Evac to EJ? Gosh, your post brought back so many amazing memories from my early days with MMOs and hardcore gaming.
Aaah, Kunark, I miss those days. WTB Evac to EJ? Gosh, your post brought back so many amazing memories from my early days with MMOs and hardcore gaming.
Thank you.
LOL how bout a SoW? clarity? ahh... the good ol' days...
Welcome to Icrontic and thanks for add to the discussion.
I guess the faceless, voiceless world was different than just the faceless... The voice chat changed it so it was tough to hide any non-male attributes. That means the young, the speech impaired, and the female all became open to the asshats of the online world.
I've discovered that, in general, we're lucky to play with and be around the group we have. Most of my friends outside of Icrontic who do play games are asses. While its true that anonymity breeds a desire to be a jerk (Hi Gygie!), it doesn't necessarily mean otherwise nice people become jerks.
I think how you act anonymously speaks volumes to who you are, how you feel about yourself, and what you think of your place in the world.
I tend to agree with you there MMS. People who are jerks in real life will act like jerks anonymously. People who are nice in real life, tend to still be nice even when anonymous.
There may be some intersect where some people who are "nice" in real life act like jerks online, but I think these people are fewer and far between.
To reply to what you said, Mochan, I don't play unless I know SOMEONE on a server, so when greeting that one (or yelling random things like SPY MEDIC) I don't talk a whole lot. But a "hello Canti" is about all it takes.
Thanks for the sweet book recommendations, Annes and WagsFTW. I'll have to check them out.
Welcome to Icrontic, Lalalana! And SoW is still fantastic. I totally agree with everything in your post. There are some girls that make it worse for the rest of us. And I would be lying if I said that I didn't enjoy the attention that being a girl on the net brings sometimes. It's just an overload a lot of times. Thanks for posting!
Finally got around to reading this one. Great write up.
You're right, women gamers tend to have it bad. I see it with my sister. Whenever we game together, she gets the same old crap. It really pisses me off (not just with her, but with any of my girl friends that play). It sucks that it's a man's general populace in gaming, because without the opposite of a female majority to balance things, they have allowed it to get ugly.
And like many stated earlier, we do have a great group of gamers here. I NEVER play TF2 by myself any more. General players are typically complete idiots and/or jerks, and it only serves to piss me off to play among them.
GnomeQueen
The Lulz QueenMountain Dew Mouth Icrontian
Comments
//EDIT: FIRST.
And now that I've gotten that in, I want to say that I have mad respect for any woman who works through the shit to enjoy hardcore gaming. It's also <i>totally hot</i>.
Seriously, ladies, gamer boys love you for gaming with them. GQ is a winner.
I think as gaming has moved out and progressed, the amount of female gamers has increased as well. I would really love to know how many of the 'silent' that we play with daily are actually girls.
"should I have to just get used to it?"
No. That guy was a dick. Chin up, we're all behind you!
Good article...
(nice writeup)
Make no mistake she's totally straight -- I can attest to that -- but she was never really affected by how gaming is such a predominantly male hobby. She likes strong female characters like Lara Croft, even if they have size D's. Among her favorite games were Tomb Raider, Parasite Eve (she is a huge Aya Brea fan) . She tried Mirror's Edge but did not like it (I didn't either).
If you're looking for more games with strong female characters, there's a lot to look at actually. Regardless of what most people say, Yuna from FF12 was a pretty solid heroine and she wasn't exactly stacked. I'm playing Settlers 6 right now and there's a very tasteful female knight there who isn't coming across as some oversexed Joan of Arc. Speaking of Joanne of Arc, that game had a solid female protagonist as well who wasn't just some sex symbol. Clive Barker's Jericho, while having been panned by every major review site on the net, had some very solid characters in my opinion and while there was sexual innuendo going on here and there (and really funny at that) I felt the three ladies on the team weren't over-sexed (except maybe for Church) and were pretty well-written all things considered. In Rainbow Six Vegas 2 you can play a female squad leader and she is tough as nails, all business, and really cool. I'm not seeing a dearth of good female characters in games, to be honest.
In the end, I guess I can understand why you are having a bit of a hard time online with a lot of immature horny young male gamers going TITS or GTFO. But really, are you trying to actively draw attention that you are a female gamer? My girlfriend plays Left 4 Dead and never makes a big deal about being a girl, people never bother her about it. Do you tell everyone you chat with that you're a girl? If you do, you may want to be less obvious about it, and you may find less harassment as a result. I realize if some people hear your voice they'll know you're a girl, but if you're nonchalant about it maybe they'll think you're just a girly-sounding guy? And just let it be?
So while I sympathize with your plight, I don't really understand why you are having problems. Maybe just a slight paradigm shift will make all your problems go away?
Seriously?
She shouldn't HAVE to make any efforts to disguise the fact that she's a girl. "Be less obvious about it?" Are you kidding me right now?
So she's not allowed to TALK because she happens to be female?
That's a bunch of crap, man. Honestly.
Here LAN parties usually occur in shops that specialize in gaming LANs where people pay about half a dollar to play for an hour. The customers are predominantly men but we do get female gamers in there every now and then -- and I've never seen a case where a girl got sexually harassed for gaming in these shops.
I don't know what's up with that but I guess the world just looks much more gender-friendly from where I'm at.
I'm not saying "don't talk." I'm saying don't bring attention to it. Do people really just hear the voice once, go, "Wha it's a girl! Cooties!" or something? Again I've never experienced it myself but like I said, I go to LAN shops to play and there are women there playing as well, I've never seen any problems.
I guess anonymity on the net is just safer and more conducive to jerk offs, or is it just that the Xbox Live demographic is that sad and worthless?
I've also been playing Left 4 Dead a lot and played quite a few games with women -- yes they sound like women over their microphones. I never harassed them, and I never heard the other people in the game harass them either.
Yes. So, I can go into a server and say "hey guys, what's up" and I'll get greeted.
If a girl goes into a server and says "hey guys, what's up?" people know she's a girl. Draw attention to it? Who the **** would do that?
"Oh hey, I'm a girl"
Like, these are adults that are playing, not children. I'm not sure where you're coming from here...
I've heard a few of my female gamer friends get harassed badly. If it's on a server I control, they get kicked immediately. If not, I leave.
But that's the other thing. Is there a NEED to go "Hey guys, what's up?" The guys on this server are anonymous people you've never met. Why do you even need to introduce yourself? If you're gaming with friends and buddies then obviously there's no problem. You go "whassup?" and since they're your friends, I doubt you're gonna get any flack.
But if you're going into a new server where you don't know anyone, why do you even need to go, "whassup?" And if you already know the environment is going to be hostile to a female gamer, then you probably don't even want to try to become friends with these people.
GnomeQueen, what exactly are the situations that arise that get these people to harass you? How does it usually start? If you can identify how it usually starts, you may be able to find ways to avoid it -- hopefully ways that don't preclude throwing your headset mike away.
Wow.
But I assume that's not the kind of familiar environment GQ is having problems with. I'm assuming she's going into an unknown, hostile environment with potential dickheads lurking. In such a scenario it might be smarter NOT to go greet everyone.
I certainly don't. When I play on an unknown server, I typically just get in and play. I talk when I need to, like when I have to coordinate with teammates. And so does everyone else. I've just never experienced this ultra hostile environment that is being discussed, and I've heard quite a few women in the servers I've played on... Or at least I assume they're women.
I've played on American, Philippine, Japanese, British and Chinese servers. From my experience I don't hear women on American servers... Probably because of the problem you mentioned. I tend to hear a lot of women on British or European servers. On Asian servers you usually don't hear people talking.
I agree with Thrax though, finding ladies with shared interests is nice. Also, if you enjoy RPGs you might like Final Fantasy 6 which has two strong female leads. Also, the female character arcs in Secret of Mana 2, Star Ocean 2, and the PS2 Romancing Saga are quite excellent.
-drasnor
http://www.sarah-ray.com/
If any male harasses you online during gaming, then in my opinion they don't have the balls to called men, they are weak and immature.
I have been gaming since... well, a very long time. And, yes, I am a woman, thank for noticing.
As for the boys' bad behavior... well... i have to agree with the others and echo what Brian said in another article: anonymity tends to breed disrespect. But other gamer girls make it tough on us too. Some of them absolutely eat up all that attention (I suspect that is why some of them play) and/or are tolerated in groups only because they are girls. Their bad behavior and less than l33t skills reflect on all of us because we are a minority.
But there are more and more of us all the time, it seems. It isn't nearly as unusual as it was 10-15 years ago. And there are more and more of us that are actually GOOD. We are an ever-increasing market for games. Maybe someday soon someone will recognize that it is time to stop pandering solely to the male population and their incessant need for "boobees"? :P
Thanks for all the interesting and thought-provoking posts, everyone. I have read quite a bit. It was nice to find something to which I felt qualified to contribute.
Aaah, Kunark, I miss those days.
Thank you.
LOL how bout a SoW? clarity? ahh... the good ol' days...
I guess the faceless, voiceless world was different than just the faceless... The voice chat changed it so it was tough to hide any non-male attributes. That means the young, the speech impaired, and the female all became open to the asshats of the online world.
I think how you act anonymously speaks volumes to who you are, how you feel about yourself, and what you think of your place in the world.
There may be some intersect where some people who are "nice" in real life act like jerks online, but I think these people are fewer and far between.
I can't believe I've gotten so many comments!
To reply to what you said, Mochan, I don't play unless I know SOMEONE on a server, so when greeting that one (or yelling random things like SPY MEDIC) I don't talk a whole lot. But a "hello Canti" is about all it takes.
Thanks for the sweet book recommendations, Annes and WagsFTW. I'll have to check them out.
Welcome to Icrontic, Lalalana! And SoW is still fantastic. I totally agree with everything in your post. There are some girls that make it worse for the rest of us. And I would be lying if I said that I didn't enjoy the attention that being a girl on the net brings sometimes. It's just an overload a lot of times. Thanks for posting!
You're right, women gamers tend to have it bad. I see it with my sister. Whenever we game together, she gets the same old crap. It really pisses me off (not just with her, but with any of my girl friends that play). It sucks that it's a man's general populace in gaming, because without the opposite of a female majority to balance things, they have allowed it to get ugly.
And like many stated earlier, we do have a great group of gamers here. I NEVER play TF2 by myself any more. General players are typically complete idiots and/or jerks, and it only serves to piss me off to play among them.