Testing a PC w/o a CPU?

candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
edited June 2012 in Hardware
I recently obtained an HP Pavilion a6700f in non-working order from a friend. This friend being less than savvy with technology had a: dropped the PC about 16 inches onto a hard surface, and b: tried to fix the problem by opening the computer and taking everything he could out. When this didn't work he tried to put it all back but had bent and broken several pins on the CPU. Now I have it and believe to have found the source of the issue to be the PSU, but without a socket am2 processor to test it I have no way of knowing if I fixed it. I would buy one but then I would have just wasted money if it turns out I didn't fix it. Does anyone know how I could test it without buying a CPU? Also, is it or is it not possible to put an am3 cpu in if i have a bios update, I have heard differing opinions on this everywhere I look so it'd be great if someone could clear it up for me.

Thanks,
candreasen
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Comments

  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    You can't test it without a CPU.

    You'll know if the BIOS update enables AM3, because it usually tells you in the release notes.
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    Thanks, I may just have to buy one and return it if it isn't fixed. Also if I turn it on without the cpu will it harm the computer?
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    No, it just won't do anything beyond beeping at you.
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    Well, it didn't seem to even do that. doesn't it need the CPU even for POST?
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    How many pins are broken on the original cpu? Why not try and straighten the bent ones and see if you get post?
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    3 are broken off and the rest I've pretty much straightened, but with any missing pins I don't know if its safe to start.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    Then it probably wouldn't be safe to start an am3 chip in it either.
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    Unless it had a bios update to support it.
  • @candreasen is this AM2 Athlon X2 qualified for your board? - If so I have one in the spare parts bin and I am feeling charitable enough to mail it anywhere in the US. PM me if you think it will solve your problem.
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    I have a CPU now, and a different PSU and it still won't boot, I tested the 12v connector to the mobo and one of 4-pin hard drive connectors and all voltages are correct (11.7V on the 12V connector) though I don't know how I can test the main connector (the PSU shuts off when its disconnected from the mobo).
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    Is it possible that when the cpu was broken (inserted incorrectly) it also damaged the slot?
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    Here's a pic of the slot:

    image
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    edited July 2012
    A bug is wiping post content when editing is chosen before the edit box opens, so one ends up with a new post...

    Lessee-- first, that socket looks damaged to me, and there should be a lever assembly or a hold-down bracket attached to that socket IF it is even the CPU socket. Is the CPU recent? Can you give us a picture of that quality of the CPU top?

    That could be a socket other than the CPU socket, which would explain why a large part of the assembly is missing.
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    it is most certainly an am2 cpu socket
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    there is a plastic piece that goes between it and the cpu though (that editing bug is annoying isn't it)
  • I might be completely off base here (as i'm not much of a hardware guy), but comparing your pictures to the internet's pictures of AM2 Sockets, such as this one:

    image

    It almost looks to me like a whole layer of the top of the socket has been pulled off. See how in my picture, it's a white top, with a black bottom underneath? it looks like what you have is just the bottom layer, which may explain why it looked like something different to @Straight_Man (it'd also be why there isn't a lever for raising and lowering, you can see where it would go in your picture, but the top part that would hold it in place is gone).

    If this is true (again, i'm not a hardware guy usually), I have no idea if it's fixable or not.
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    Ok, sockets have to hold pins. they do so by gripping, and there is usually a lever to cause the pin gripping. Without the gripping there is poor contact on every pin. That is a GRIP socket, not a socket for ball or pad contact CPUs.

    The random blacker areas in the middle more of the CPU look like someone tried to spread the gripper contacts-- they will not contact right, EVER. The ones that are brighter look to me like there was someone who pried the grippers too tight- they are likely to damage CPU pins if a CPU is inserted.
  • It's not letting me edit my post, so i'll add this down here:

    The more I look at pictures of AM2 Sockets, the more I think the top layer is missing. Look at the corners of the picture you posted above (the three open holes in an L shape) and compare it to the corners of

    image

    It would make sense to me that the open hole Ls would be receptacles for whatever connector holds the top layer to the black bottom layer.
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    Thanks for the pic, @QuadyTheTurnip , the part that causes the gripping is missing from the socket. It is like the bottom part of EARLY Pentium III sockets. Without the top in place and working, the CPU would never work (put simply). The top part causes the CPU pins to contact one of the spread grippers and STAY contacting them.

    If contact is intermittent(only happens sometimes), the CPU can be easily destroyed. This socket is useless, IMHO. I would judge the whole motherboard non-economical to repair absent whole new part and a wave-soldering setup to solder the socket in place. Motherboard AND CPU probably will be needed to repair the computer.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    Yes, that socket is missing half of itself. The whole mobo must be replaced.
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    @QuadyTheTurnip , @Thrax I have the other pieces, but I took them off for the photo because i believe some of the contacts are broken underneath there.
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    image

    those are the other pieces (heatsink w/ clamp, and the plastic piece that holds it elevated from the socket).
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    To explain myself, the white plastic piece (whether it's supposed to or not) likes to lift out with the cpu, it isn't attached to the socket. My question when I posted the pic was whether the contacts were broken on the mobo, and it seeems that they are so I assume that's what you were saying about it not being worth fixing.
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    Not only that, but once the white plastic piece and lever come off, they are broken so that they will never work again. Yes.
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    I understand not taking off the white piece, but how can you replace the CPU if the heatsink is broken upon removal?
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    The White piece needs to be slid and a little bent after releasing the lever to be taken off without breaking. The plastic used is fairly inexpensive, though one of its virtues is that it does not conduct electric current-- so it happens to be somewhat brittle. MAking them of all nylon would potentially be something that holds static.

    Static discharges on conducting part of electronics cause damage if they are large enough in volume (Current is total volume of electrons, think of river flowing more ounces of water potentially because it is bigger than a mere stream. Technically, current is Voltage X Amps for math reasons I cannot fully process in plain English, but quite basically purer sense of Current is total electron flow or TOTAL VOLUME OF ELECTRONS FLOWING into or out of a given wire or trace with DC current considered.)

    That is how a retired Electronics Engineer with lots of experience and a master's degree in Electronics Engineering taught me how to understand Current, over a decade ago. The course I was in was not even at Associate's degree level, and taught electronics at the level a Comptia A+ Certification required. So the teaching level was such that I could handle it because it was 85% Algebra only. I still have the NIDA books that were used in subset only for this mini-course.
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    So they aren't (necessarily) broken upon removal like you said:

    Not only that, but once the white plastic piece and lever come off, they are broken so that they will never work again. Yes.

    Also, what was the point of the whole rant on static electricity and current? I'm no expert on computers or electricity in general but I'm not stupid, that was almost insulting.

  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    The point, somewhat lost to you, is that materials which happen to be non-static and non-conductive can be brittle, and cheaper such materials tend to yield brittle plastics. The CPU was pried off, breaking or bending the little tangs, the photos tell me that. The lever that moves the top piece is missing totally from pictures, and an oddly shaped part of that lever holds the pins and top piece holes against the sockets to maintain contact by moving the lever up. The lever is slightly bendable in its long straight part, and the tip under a tang near the end of the straight part is intended to bend sideways enough to move out from under the tang and then be lifted up and then the CPU pins are released. then you can take off the CPU wthout destroying the socket assembly.

    Honestly, I am trying to stay stubborn about staying gentle here, and do not know what people know and do not know until they tell me they know that or it helped. I do not rant truely, just understand a lot about systems and how complex and easy to destroy they can be for a newer person to computer building and fixing. I have ruined two sockets like you showed in parts, and figured out how they worked the hard way. I got to pay my boss for two motherboards and two CPUs-- I did not know those little tricks the easy way. I am retired and like to talk tech and teach tech. I will shut up now, for you.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    To get these derails back on track: I'm going to guess what happened was the heatsink was pulled off straight instead of using a slight twisting motion to "break the seal" between the dried out thermal paste and the CPU, resulting in the white "cover" also being lifted off. I do not know if it is possible to "reconnect" that or not, but more pictures (straight on the mobo, front and back of white piece, straight on and side shots of CPU, etc would help determine that. I don't think this is likely.
  • candreasencandreasen Minneapolis, MN
    As mentioned in the original post, I wasn't the one who (for no apparent reason) disassembled the PC because it wasn't working (after being dropped), but I suppose my friend who gave it to me probably took it out wrong like that. Also, @Tushon I could reattach the white cover but several of the contacts underneath were damaged (likely irreparably) when my friend tried to force the cpu back in (since it wasn't lined up right this also broke 2-3 pins clean off). I'm not going to even try to fix this anymore because even if I somehow did, most likely something else would be broken (there was something broken originally and to "fix" it he took the pc apart). Thanks for the help all.
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