The last MMO I remember like this was Warhammer Online. Oh mmos, why do you look so good and promise so much, only to deliver us neatly packaged turds. I'M LOOKING AT YOU GUILD WARS 2. DON'T YOU DARE DROP ME A TURD.
"When you have power players who will rush from level 1 to level 50 in two weeks, not having end game content for them means they’re out the door right away. They may or may not come back, but they won’t hang around when there’s no challenging foe for them to defeat and nothing to do. Many players also won’t tolerate having their progress deliberately slowed. In World of Warcraft, when it was originally released in 2004, going from level 1 to 60 was an epic journey that took ages and players loved or loathed it. Now, virtually every player expects to be able to roll a character and get to maximum level in two weeks or less."
A co-worker and I both agree that this here is the core problem with many MMO games. We've both seen it in several games. People are too quick to blame the game, but what about they player? These "power players" usually are the first to complain and the most vocal about it.
I sort of knew that SWTOR was going to be a dud based on the same experiences I had with Rift. Power players rushed to level cap, complained there was nothing to do, and within a month or two, the game is dead. Then again if the leveling process was slower, they'd still complain.
"When you have power players who will rush from level 1 to level 50 in two weeks, not having end game content for them means they’re out the door right away. They may or may not come back, but they won’t hang around when there’s no challenging foe for them to defeat and nothing to do. Many players also won’t tolerate having their progress deliberately slowed. In World of Warcraft, when it was originally released in 2004, going from level 1 to 60 was an epic journey that took ages and players loved or loathed it. Now, virtually every player expects to be able to roll a character and get to maximum level in two weeks or less."
A co-worker and I both agree that this here is the core problem with many MMO games. We've both seen it in several games. People are too quick to blame the game, but what about they player? These "power players" usually are the first to complain and the most vocal about it.
I sort of knew that SWTOR was going to be a dud based on the same experiences I had with Rift. Power players rushed to level cap, complained there was nothing to do, and within a month or two, the game is dead. Then again if the leveling process was slower, they'd still complain.
I totally, agree with your co-worker and your opinion. People do rush, and then complain about nothing to do.
"Based on the various discussions, things I’ve heard, and marketing I’ve seen, I honestly believe that the real cost of SW:TOR was most likely in excess of $250M—shattering the estimated $145M record spend on Final Fantasy VII."
FFVII? That was quite a while ago, and not MMO... perhaps you mean XI or XIV?
People rush to get to the end of MMOs because that is the model people have come to expect via WoW and EverQuest. These were/are very, very top-heavy games, which incentivized completion of the leveling process by rewarding the player with the bulk of the game's content.
That's the issue with levels being the primary funnel through which player experiences content, because players will automatically want to know what's at the end, and rush to get there.
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Harlan Webbthe Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature EnthusiastNew MexicoIcrontian
I agree with RC1974. When I've talked with some friends about various aspects of WoW and others. More often then not the game or it's developers were cited as the flaw. Sometimes for obvious reasons. "If the game itself was that bad, then why are you still playing it?" was my mindset. And sure I've had my wrath against technical stuff. Bugs and changes, but they were nothing permanently game breaking. The bugs were dealt with and the mechanics I got used to. The constant complaint I have had has been against parts of the playerbase. To the elitist power gamers and jerks in general I would just be a "bad" complaining about how my own efforts are basically !@#$ and that is why I can't progress in the game. When it's really me not being allowed to participate just cause I've only seen the fight but not actually completed it. On a small population server, it gets flipping annoying when this player induced content lock occurs. At least I've got good friends on to keep tings interesting and still do stuff with.
That's the issue with levels being the primary funnel through which player experiences content, because players will automatically want to know what's at the end, and rush to get there.
I think that's why EVE has succeeded in steady growth versus many of these games with short peak and burn lifecycles. Unfortunately EVE is such a niche product. The aspects of it that make it different are the precise reasons it will not achieve anywhere close to the number of users something like SWTOR or RIFT had.
I think this article underestimates, or at least is too quick to dismiss the effect so many MMOs releasing in such a short time had on the lifespan of the game. At my office, we had 10 people start RIFT together, only to see 6 leave upon the release of SWTOR before dropping that to join the Reddit PvE Minecraft server for a change of pace. So many gamers are quick to jump from game to game looking for something new, only to find the games are just more of the same "killing boars in the forest" missions.
"Based on the various discussions, things I’ve heard, and marketing I’ve seen, I honestly believe that the real cost of SW:TOR was most likely in excess of $250M—shattering the estimated $145M record spend on Final Fantasy VII."
FFVII? That was quite a while ago, and not MMO... perhaps you mean XI or XIV?
Nope! In case you forgot, FFVII is the one with the polygon characters that were all animated with motion capture and such. But you didn't. Why? Because Sony and Squeenix is estimated to have spent over $100M (in 1997) just on marketing.
I'm confused how going from 1.7 to 1.3 million subscribers is a 50% drop rate. Care to explain your math?
Moving F2P is clearly an attempt to get people hooked on the story so they buy into the end game content (F2P excludes a lot of PVP, flashpoints, and all operations, as I recall), but to write it off as a failed MMO right now (when you even admit you don't play it) is overreaching a tad. A change in course like this does indicate a deviation from their plans, but 1.3 million subscribers is nothing to sneeze at. Server merges also did a lot for improving server populations (as expected).
So tl;dr, good opinion piece, it just seems a bit hyperbolic (and a little sketchy on the math above :P ).
Also: the game goes on sale for $15 starting August 15th, not November. It goes fully F2P in November, with the full 1-50 available for no investment, and the limitations on the free vs subscriber benefits are listed out in their F2P FAQ.
Funny thing is, I forgot this game even existed until I read this article. Now I'm downloading it to give the first fifteen levels a try. Maybe the PR marketing machine looks at it and says, any news is good news at this point? Get's people talking about the game even if some of it is criticism, it's probably better than nothing in the gamer news cycle. I'll know what I think of it soon enough. Downloading main assets now.
Interesting arguments. Personally I'm delighted to hear it's going free. I'm interested enough to see the "shinyness" of the game (the voicework, story, etc), but I'm not at all interested in the real "guts" of the MMO itself (end-game, raiding, and so forth).
Yes, I'm going to be a leech, and I'm okay with that. This is a winning situation for me.
Also: the game goes on sale for $15 starting August 15th, not November. It goes fully F2P in November, with the full 1-50 available for no investment, and the limitations on the free vs subscriber benefits are listed out in their F2P FAQ.
Actually, per EA on their earnings call, it goes full F2P November 15, 2012. (Remember that EA is the publisher, so that's under their control.) This was covered on their conference call on July 31. August will see the introduction of the "first step" - selling the game for $15 with one month of free subscription - purchase and subscription still required. It will not go entirely free to play until November; till then, it still requires a subscription. (But it's academic if you fork over the $15 in August.) More than a half dozen analysts, press, and reviewers with a number of sources inside and outside of Bioware as well as EA and Bioware themselves reported a ~400,000 subscriber drop between February and May alone. EA also stated on their earnings call that subscribers are below 1M without giving a specific number; 40% is 1,020,000. Even generous estimates from independent research say it's below 900K, possibly below 800K - especially when EA stated they consider 500K subscribers "substantially profitable" and numbers are "well above" that figure but "below 1M". That's not exactly a wide range there.
@RootWyrm I was clarifying the last statement in the article that says it goes on sale for $15 starting in November - it doesn't, the $15 sale starts in August. Or have we misinterpreted each other again?
The latest data I've seen from the beginning of August is that subscribers are down to 1.3m. I haven't seen any data that would indicate numbers lower than that, so if you have a source I could read on your independent estimates or the numbers direct from EA, I'd be interested to see it.
I haven't seen any data that would indicate numbers lower than that, so if you have a source I could read on your independent estimates or the numbers direct from EA, I'd be interested to see it.
I haven't seen any data that would indicate numbers lower than that, so if you have a source I could read on your independent estimates or the numbers direct from EA, I'd be interested to see it.
Especially considering I was at least linking my counterexample (with a date of August 5th, so not exactly ancient) and not being a pompous insider know-it-all in my opinion piece.
All I wanted was information to back up your 50% drop claim, and to provide a friendly correction to the little blurb you entered at the bottom. You're certainly within your right to bash on the game, but when you reach into the realm of fact in your opinion piece, I'd like more than "insider figures" and "thanks to my even pre-closed-beta access" platitudes. Sorry I don't trust everything I read immediately.
Listen to the first question. A new type of MMORPG generation is coming and a lot of gaming companies aren't understanding that. Hopefully GW2 doesn't make the same mistake.
"Now, virtually every player expects to be able to roll a character and get to maximum level in two weeks or less."
THIS is the mentality that kills games. NOTHING Swtor or any other MMO has come out has changed. They ALL shipped with hardly any end-game content, even WoW.
The difference with WoW is this new generation of MMO was based off of them, so if you weren't playing WoW (easy to play/level) you had to go to other games like EQ2 (grind/grind for levels) that weren't as easy to play.
So that's why everyone tends to forget that WoW had no end-game content at launch and that it had one of the worst launches an MMO can have with all the downtime and server issues.
So what did Swtor do wrong in it's creation? It catered to a player-base that they thought would be happy with the game if they mimicked WoW at launch but had a smoother launch, that's what. The problem is that they didn't update that to include tons of end-game content( correct) for players that demand to be max level, BIS geared in a day.
I subscribed to SWTOR for a while, and while I love Star Wars, I got a bit bored with the overall gameplay...maybe that's just my altaholic view, but I'm not much into endgame content. I'll start again when FTP starts up and play through the class storylines, which is all I really care about.
Comments
I sort of knew that SWTOR was going to be a dud based on the same experiences I had with Rift. Power players rushed to level cap, complained there was nothing to do, and within a month or two, the game is dead. Then again if the leveling process was slower, they'd still complain.
I sort of knew that SWTOR was going to be a dud based on the same experiences I had with Rift. Power players rushed to level cap, complained there was nothing to do, and within a month or two, the game is dead. Then again if the leveling process was slower, they'd still complain.
I totally, agree with your co-worker and your opinion. People do rush, and then complain about nothing to do.
FFVII? That was quite a while ago, and not MMO... perhaps you mean XI or XIV?
That's the issue with levels being the primary funnel through which player experiences content, because players will automatically want to know what's at the end, and rush to get there.
I think this article underestimates, or at least is too quick to dismiss the effect so many MMOs releasing in such a short time had on the lifespan of the game. At my office, we had 10 people start RIFT together, only to see 6 leave upon the release of SWTOR before dropping that to join the Reddit PvE Minecraft server for a change of pace. So many gamers are quick to jump from game to game looking for something new, only to find the games are just more of the same "killing boars in the forest" missions.
Moving F2P is clearly an attempt to get people hooked on the story so they buy into the end game content (F2P excludes a lot of PVP, flashpoints, and all operations, as I recall), but to write it off as a failed MMO right now (when you even admit you don't play it) is overreaching a tad. A change in course like this does indicate a deviation from their plans, but 1.3 million subscribers is nothing to sneeze at. Server merges also did a lot for improving server populations (as expected).
So tl;dr, good opinion piece, it just seems a bit hyperbolic (and a little sketchy on the math above :P ).
Yes, I'm going to be a leech, and I'm okay with that. This is a winning situation for me.
More than a half dozen analysts, press, and reviewers with a number of sources inside and outside of Bioware as well as EA and Bioware themselves reported a ~400,000 subscriber drop between February and May alone. EA also stated on their earnings call that subscribers are below 1M without giving a specific number; 40% is 1,020,000. Even generous estimates from independent research say it's below 900K, possibly below 800K - especially when EA stated they consider 500K subscribers "substantially profitable" and numbers are "well above" that figure but "below 1M". That's not exactly a wide range there.
The latest data I've seen from the beginning of August is that subscribers are down to 1.3m. I haven't seen any data that would indicate numbers lower than that, so if you have a source I could read on your independent estimates or the numbers direct from EA, I'd be interested to see it.
So what next? You need George Lucas to deliver it to you personally in the form of a singing telegram before you believe it?
Naw.
All I wanted was information to back up your 50% drop claim, and to provide a friendly correction to the little blurb you entered at the bottom. You're certainly within your right to bash on the game, but when you reach into the realm of fact in your opinion piece, I'd like more than "insider figures" and "thanks to my even pre-closed-beta access" platitudes. Sorry I don't trust everything I read immediately.
Listen to the first question. A new type of MMORPG generation is coming and a lot of gaming companies aren't understanding that. Hopefully GW2 doesn't make the same mistake.
THIS is the mentality that kills games. NOTHING Swtor or any other MMO has come out has changed. They ALL shipped with hardly any end-game content, even WoW.
The difference with WoW is this new generation of MMO was based off of them, so if you weren't playing WoW (easy to play/level) you had to go to other games like EQ2 (grind/grind for levels) that weren't as easy to play.
So that's why everyone tends to forget that WoW had no end-game content at launch and that it had one of the worst launches an MMO can have with all the downtime and server issues.
So what did Swtor do wrong in it's creation? It catered to a player-base that they thought would be happy with the game if they mimicked WoW at launch but had a smoother launch, that's what. The problem is that they didn't update that to include tons of end-game content( correct) for players that demand to be max level, BIS geared in a day.