Avengers Endgame SPOILERS discussion
primesuspect
Beepin n' BoopinDetroit, MI Icrontian
in Movies & TV
Whew
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What an epic battle and a ton of changes for the MCU.
I loved the buddy-movie aspect, the team-ups, the heist part of the movie, and the fucking end battle was epic beyond compare... but I truly do wish we could have seen more of Captain Marvel in action.
Also I LOVED FAT THOR
Nicole and I were joking afterwards about how toxic nerd-rage types will react to the scene with the assemblage of women superheroes
"The only thing Thanos couldn't snap away was PC culture" ?
America's Ass
Oh man I'm watching Iron Man right now and the first thing he wants when he gets back to America from captivity is ... A CHEESEBURGER ?
Holy shit
I can't even. I've never seen a theater collectively cry before.
That was the most emotional super hero movie ever.
I cried during the credits as they highlighted the epic moments for each character. I don't even know why.
Master stroke.
High expectations = OBLITERATED
Thoughts in no particular order.
When Cap gets Thor's hammer and there's the shot of him with it and his shield, people in the theater were literally jumping out of their seats and screaming. If that moment didn't absolutely and unquestionably deserve such a reaction then I don't know what the fuck does.
I find it weird that the only reference to Vision is Wanda telling Thanos he took everything from her.
I wish there had been more of Wanda and Danvers. The two of them could wipe the floor with Thanos one on one. Also, they super cute.
Really enjoyed seeing The Ancient One just NOPE Banner into the spirit realm and that whole interaction. Amazing acting from Tilda Swinton for such a short role.
Concerning Black Widow, I'm not crying YOU'RE CRYING.
It is established via Gamora, Nebula, and Thanos that it's possible to pull someone from a previous timeline into the present and then they're just there. That said, why can't they pull Natasha back from just before her and Clint get the soul stone? Am I missing something?
YOU HAVE THE SOUL STONE AND THANOS IS GONE. USE IT TO REVIVE NAT. Please revive Nat.
Nat is gone, I AM crying, EVERYONE is crying.
Thanos punching Danvers and not getting a reaction of any kind until using the power stone - priceless.
Setting up the elevator fight scene from Winter Soldier and shutting it down with two words was brilliant.
Fat Thor - Okay yeah, it's goofy, unexpected, and there's some laughs but as a whole I think it's the most depressing story arc. He lost almost everyone he had to Thanos even before the snap and he was in the most powerful position to prevent it from happening in the first place and still failed. He blames himself for the loss of trillions of lives, several of which were his friends. That combined with the inability to reverse it was just too much.
Spiderman - Instant kill activated. YEAH! YEAH! YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!
Scott Lang - A rat accidentally brings Scott back from the quantum realm and doing so triggers the events that will save the universe. Nameless rodent is the true hero of the MCU.
Really glad Rhodey finally got such an important role in the story and even earned Nebula's respect. Been a big fan of that character since Iron Man 2 and seeing him back at his full potential after thinking he might not even survive Civil War was satisfying. Maybe Don Cheadle is just awesome.
When Pepper showed up in an Iron Man suit I legit did not recognize her and for a few minutes kept thinking "who the hell was that?" People can hate on Gwyneth Paltrow all they want and as they have done for years but I absolutely love the relationship between Tony and Pepper. Seeing her join the battle when they have a daughter to fight for was amazing.
Cap's choice to return the stones and then live out his life in the time he belongs in is so bittersweet I think I might get bitter-diabetes just from watching it but he's earned it and that's all that matters.
Tony Stark...
It started with you, it ended with you.
Thank you.
Captain America using Thor's Hammer >> Yoda fights count Dooku
Thor: "I KNEW IT!"
Well... Tony's AI Friday has a female voice and calls him boss (Let the internet rage in 3...2...1...)
There are so many brilliant cheer worthy moments in this film and a very satisfying emotional conclusion to the arc at the end. What an incredible payoff.
I guess my biggest lingering question is that there have been rumors of Scarlet Johansson getting paid a mint to be in a Black Widow solo film. I suppose a prequel or an alternate timeline? Who knows? Time will tell, apparently they have another five year plan a sort of phase three and somehow I'm still not burned out on the MCU. Feed me more Marvel.
I've read from multiple sources that the Black Widow film explains her past
That makes the most sense I think. The story needed some gravitas and losing a few heroes in the process of saving the entire universe felt necessary. It's a satisfying conclusion to her arc, but in comics nobody is ever really dead.
Just. Wow.
Don't have time for my full breakdown, but a quick take:
More to come. Time to go drink beer and raise money for youth football.
I can finally pull off a Thor costume!!!!
I did it! I made it through the movie without peeing!!
Happy Hulk dabbed and fat, alcoholic Thor threatened a kid in Fortnite over PSN. Pretty sure this is the best movie I've ever seen.
Man, that film was spectacular. I feel so weird now that it's over. 11 years and 22 movies to get to this point, it's exciting to think we've lived at a time to experience something like this. As far as I'm concerned, what the MCU has accomplished is unprecedented in film, and they managed to execute the whole thing at such a high level, it's an astonishing achievement. Don't be sad that it's over, be happy that it happened.
The cold open with Hawkeye and his family was brutal. As soon as it faded into scene I knew it had to be pre-snap, and when it happened it still broke me. That was so hard to watch.
I loved seeing the 5 year time gap and seeing how everyone dealt with the horrifying reality they were in. Some were trying to be positive (Cap), some were completely destroyed (Thor, Hawkeye). The ensuing time traveling caper movie we got was equally amazing.
Tony Stark has almost died like 3 times now so it almost felt like a jebait for him to be the one, but it did happen and I cried. Knowing how much he had to lose after seeing him with his family out in the woods, that one hurt. And to think that in Infinity War, Dr. Strange saved Tony's life by forfeiting the time stone ("Tony, it was the only way"), only for Strange to know this moment would just lead to Tony losing his life a little later on for the greater good makes the whole thing so macabre. When you look back and realize Tony asks Strange "Is this the one where we win? What happens" and Strange says that he cannot say because then it might not happen makes this whole thing really dark.
I had a feeling we'd lose Stark and -maybe- Cap, but Black Widow took me by surprise and crushed me
As soon as they got to Vormir to take the soul stone I realized someone had to die, and my stomach sank. What a moment.
Honestly the deaths were so impactful in this movie, it's incredible seeing actual consequence unfolding in this film. We've watched so many MCU movies without major death happening and this movie made us pay the price. Similar to what @RyanFodder said - when Tony died, I've never experienced a public crying session like I did tonight in the theater. People were sobbing all around me. It hit hard.
Yeah I agree. This was one of the most extreme examples of the fallout Thanos' deeds had on people. Thor lost literally everything - his planet, his love, family, and friends. And after all that he was unable to just get justice for the person responsible for it all. He fell off the deep end hard and from the moment he lobbed Thanos' head off in the beginning of the movie you can tell that he's just completely run out of resolve. He's a shell of a god. It was funny but it was also super sad to watch.
Great film. Great conclusion to a massive franchise. Can't wait to see it again.
To me the unsung hero of the story is Pepper Potts. She is given the option, Tony pretty much leads her to tell him not to do it and she can't because she is pretty much the spouse everyone should have. She knows she has to share Tony's brilliance, even if it could cost her everything. There were scenarios going through my head in a time travel story where their very daughter or even their relationship could be wiped out of history. It's a risk they took together because Pepper Potts was just as unselfish and heroic as Tony Stark was.
I was having trouble putting this into words after the movie. Its like we were alive when the Sistine Chapel was completed.
Thinking on it, one of my favorite scenes in the movie is a pretty subtle one. I loved when Thanos is watching future Nebula's memories through past Nebula's eyes and he sees all that happens. First he sees that he's been successful in finding the stones and making the snap. He hardly reacts to it, because he knows its his destiny. He doesn't boast or even show a hint of excitement.
Then he sees himself brutally killed, and he doesn't even wince at that either. No reaction, other than a confirmation that destiny is to pass, this is his fate. That moment made Thanos so much more badass and terrifying to me.
Second viewing tonight. The scene with Tony and Howard in 1970 kind of wrecked me when they where parting ways and he said his dad had a few pearls of wisdom:
"No amount of money in the world ever bought a second of time"
And the impact of knowing that... It literally did as he was able to connect with his deceased father for just those moments was intense.
The final scenes seem to explain why they decided not to do another season of Agent Carter.
I'm not a fan of the time travel in this one. They start out right, talking about how changing the past is not possible because things that happened already happened, and somesuch and I was hopes up that they were going to do time travel correctly, but then the grand sorcerer starts in about alternate timelines and branches which is already hokum, but whatevs, they need something to convince them that they actually have to return the stones back to where they came from, so that the past can play out the way it already did.
AND THEN the film just throws all of that out the window by allowing things to happen in the past that def did not happen. I thought that they were going to use the gauntlet to fix it all, sending Thanos back into the past to do what he already did, since he already did it, but then they just murder him and all his friends, and like... WHAT???!? That's not how any of this should work! If it's not possible to make a branching timeline, then they are so far up a paradox's ass that nothing in the entire franchise makes sense anymore, and if it IS possible to make a branching timeline here, then they most certainly did so in a very dramatic and terrible way, doing exactly what Swinton told them they must not do at any cost!
We can see clearly at the end that they are all still in the timeline in which half of all life vanished for five years, then came back, which is not possible because the guy who started all that biz went to the future six years ago, and got himself dusted! That means that there is a branch of the timeline in which no one ever disappeared, and the Avengers had no need to ever fight Thanos, and thus all of them are still alive and well, and whatever, but then who killed Thanos when he went into the future? A team of Avengers who had no idea what he was or why he was there? It's all so fucked at that point that I've already thrown up my hands.
BUT THEN
Cap goes back to put the stones back where they belong, which... First of all: How is he doing it all in one trip, since the stones were YEARS apart in the timeline and second: How did he end up back on the original timeline?? He should be currently living it up in the branch of the timeline in which Thanos never came to snap his fingers at all!
AAAAHHHHHH!
deep breath
Anyway... Other than that it was an excellent film.
I think part of the problem with screwing with time travel in culture and fiction is that so much was so poorly understood for so long, things just became part of the cultural understanding. There's enough out there about "can't kill Hitler" paradoxes and branching timelines that people can kind of wrap their heads around (accuracy to standing theory or otherwise) that you kind of have to stick with that until we have a real theory that people are able to understand (well, fine, we'll just be able to come back and explain how it works then, right?).
Time travel in movies/tv/etc is one of those things I just have to allow my suspension of disbelief take over because there's just not a good way to do it that will both be satisfying and entertaining.
But that's why it bothers me so much. As soon as a show or film franchise that was not already about time travel introduces time travel as a mechanic nothing makes sense anymore. At best it's lazy resolutions, and at worst it makes the story completely meaningless.
I mean: The Avengers have a working, safe, accurate time machine now... Why would they ever use any other tool ever again? And if they can actually change the past, they can save EVERYONE, but they won't because reasons, and that's stupid. Time travel is a terrible thing to introduce into an ongoing story.
There have been several otherwise great Sci-fi shows that I've had to stop watching because they started traveling in time and I just couldn't into it anymore because nothing made sense ever again.
He has access to as many Pym particles as he needs, since Hank Pym is back. The whole conceit during the heist was that they had limited fuel. He has no such limits and thus can jump around however he needs.
The only thing that truly kind of annoys me about this movie arc is that the "snap" action has got to be bullshit. Wearing all six infinity stones is all that it takes to become, essentially, a god (We hear that Thanos intends to create an entire universe and fill it with life, so if that's not "god" I don't know what is), and so the part where Thanos has the gauntlet during the final battle, and starts to "snap" but is stopped by Captain Marvel is, to me, kinda BS. He doesn't need to physically "snap" his fingers. He can just will anything to happen. The "snapping fingers" thing is essentially a colloquialism from Infinity War, and it annoys me that it has become the actual physical motion that is required for the wish fulfillment aspect of the gauntlet.
I noticed that too. The moment that really sealed it for me though, how he explains the conquests have never been pers