Intel LIQUID CPU Cooler

Straight_Man

This is interesting, here(link below) is an ExteremeTech Article about Intel's new cooler:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/107147-intels-liquid-cpu-cooler-is-water-worth-the-cost

Water cooling, fan on it and small pump for water flow. MY take-- not as good as flowing water or coolant outside the case, heat could build up inside case.

John.

Tushon

Straight_Man wrote:

Water cooling, fan on it and small pump for water flow. MY take-- not as good as flowing water or coolant outside the case, heat could build up inside case.

John.

This is a flowing water solution, just a closed loop. If you meant a res/T-line was a better solution, I agree in terms of maintenance (i.e. you can check/change fluid on a typical, "open" WC solution, but if you are looking for a "no maintenance" entry into WC, this is okay, though there are better ones available.

Tim

I have read reviews on water cooled CPU setups, and I'm trying to find a situation where a water cooled setup is CLEARLY better than an air cooled one. But I have not found any.

1 or 2 degrees Celsius in CPU temps isn't worth the cost, complexity, and increased number of potential failure points in a water cooled setup.

So, in my opinion, water cooling is a thing for pure computer / gaming geeks to brag about to their computer geek friends, while offering no clear real world benefit and costing more money.

And these new computer cases that put the power supply on the bottom of the case, with a water cooled setup over top of it? That is just begging for problems.

MAGIC

Well Tim, your opinion has no support. There are prefab units that use water in an inefficient manner so the benefits of it are marginalized. Water has a thermanl conductivity twenty four times greater than air so to say that the use of water serves no purpose other than to "brag" is ignorant.

shwaip

Tim, everything about your post is wrong.

Tushon

MAGIC wrote:

Well Tim, your opinion has no support. There are prefab units that use water in an inefficient manner so the benefits of it are marginalized. Water has a thermanl conductivity twenty four times greater than air so to say that the use of water serves no purpose other than to "brag" is ignorant.

Having just recently investigated watercooling, this is absolutely true.

drasnor

I own a CoolIT ECO ALC, or did until a couple of days ago, and it costs and performs about the same as my old Thermalright Ultra 120 but without ripping the hell out of my hands during installation and still allowing access to my motherboard. I got RMA upgraded to the CoolIT Vantage, we'll see how that goes.

Tim

So a leaking water system dripping onto a hot (running) power supply has no chance of causing problems?

Yes, I know liquid can absorb / transfer heat better than air, but that's not the only factor here.

Show me a performance test where any water system is significantly better than any available air system.

shwaip

Tim wrote:

So a leaking water system dripping onto a hot (running) power supply has no chance of causing problems?

Yes, I know liquid can absorb / transfer heat better than air, but that's not the only factor here.

Show me a performance test where any water system is significantly better than any available air system.

overclocking. period.

yes, leaking water can cause a problem. so can an unplugged cpu fan. Correctly maintaining your system can stop both of them.

drasnor

Tim wrote:

So a leaking water system dripping onto a hot (running) power supply has no chance of causing problems?
...
Show me a performance test where any water system is significantly better than any available air system.

Yeah, that would cause problems. Honestly though, if your coolant was leaking out you're going to notice real fast when your machine trips the thermal overload sensor and shuts down. You also have to consider that any liquid system is most likely going to leak at the fittings and run down your motherboard or the back of your case. Plus, most chassis that use the below-motherboard PSU mount don't mount the PSU chassis flush with the bottom of the case. It's equally likely to just pool on the bottom of the case or drip out the vent holes on your floor/desk. A properly-assembled cooling loop is just as reliable as the cooling system for your automobile's engine though, so I don't see why this is even a discussion point.

For the second, what does this even mean? By what metrics are you measuring better? Liquid cooling isn't some kind of panacea, the choices you make when selecting or designing one consist of tradeoffs just like designing an air-cooled system.

csimon

1.) Don't build a leaky water setup. Leak test before installation.
2.) Use a non-conductive fluid such as distilled water.
3.) If steps one or two don't work for you go back to using air.

Thrax

The problem I have with all these liquid coolers (ALL of them) is that their performance is no better than the best air coolers, but they cost 15-25% more (or worse). Their only merit is silence.

Tushon

Thrax wrote:

The problem I have with all these liquid coolers (ALL of them) is that their performance is no better than the best air coolers, but they cost 15-25% more (or worse). Their only merit is silence.

And for some, that premium is worth the lack of sound.

ErrorNullTurnip

Has anyone ever heard of someone trying to cool a CPU using the cold water feed from a residential plumbing system? Naturally, it would need to be isolated from an inner cooling loop, but there would be a constantly cool source of water.

drasnor

Error Null Turnip wrote:

Has anyone ever heard of someone trying to cool a CPU using the cold water feed from a residential plumbing system? Naturally, it would need to be isolated from an inner cooling loop, but there would be a constantly cool source of water.

What would you do with the waste water?

Ilriyas

Filter it back into the plumbing system I suppose? Of course that would require a great deal of unnecessary plumbing and I'd be hesitant to even pay a professional to do it.

RyanFodder

Thrax wrote:

The problem I have with all these liquid coolers (ALL of them) is that their performance is no better than the best air coolers, but they cost 15-25% more (or worse). Their only merit is silence.

That's because you're ultimately trying to cool the water with air - back to where you started.

The benefit is you gain clearance around your CPU, as drasnor mentioned:

drasnor wrote:

I own a CoolIT ECO ALC, or did until a couple of days ago, and it costs and performs about the same as my old Thermalright Ultra 120 but without ripping the hell out of my hands during installation and still allowing access to my motherboard. I got RMA upgraded to the CoolIT Vantage, we'll see how that goes.

drasnor wrote:

Liquid cooling isn't some kind of panacea, the choices you make when selecting or designing one consist of tradeoffs just like designing an air-cooled system.

You can in theory build a cheaper, larger cooler for your water, that is in a more convenient location - or outside your case altogether. The larger the cooler, the more air you can move past it.

I looked into a water cooled system because I thought it would be a fun project. I had a huge cooler with big 140 mm fans to quietly cool it planned.

The trade of is complexity - you have to have a pump to move the water (and the heat) to this other location. More components mean more cost. I started putting prices together, and coupled with the fact that I know next to nothing about overclocking, this solution just didn't work out for me. I could marginally justify it if I could also cool the graphics card, but the complexity turned me away.

So, the trade of is: what are your space requirements/noise requirements worth to you? Can you get a massive radiator to get to extreme cooling? If you need it, you can get past limitations of an air only system. If you don't, go with a cheaper system.

ErrorNullTurnip

Ilriyas wrote:

Filter it back into the plumbing system I suppose? Of course that would require a great deal of unnecessary plumbing and I'd be hesitant to even pay a professional to do it.

Probably this, the flow rate shouldn't be too high if you can transfer the heat efficiently enough. Alternately, the outside coolant loop could be run through a geothermal loop (or unused radiant floor heating system).

RyanFodder

Error Null Turnip wrote:

Probably this, the flow rate shouldn't be too high if you can transfer the heat efficiently enough. Alternately, the outside coolant loop could be run through a geothermal loop (or unused radiant floor heating system).

I like this idea... it would need a bigger pump though, as you'd have a lot of line resistance.

You wouldn't need much water if you dumped the water - if it were always cold (say 50F) you could cut the flow down from what a normal liquid system runs.

I have tests running at work that dump water to drain for the sake of extremely efficient cooling.

RyanFodder

I did a quick search on Newegg... there is just nothing economical out there. Component build systems are expensive (which is what I'd like to do) and the premade cooling systems (where you're basically just using the water in place of copper heat pipes) don't allow you to upgrade to bigger radiators as far as I can tell.

Anyone know of a good component based place to shop?

primesuspect

http://www.dangerden.com/

Thrax

Swiftech, DangerDen, Koolance. Those are the big 3 in component water cooling.

drasnor

Error Null Turnip wrote:

Ilriyas wrote:

Filter it back into the plumbing system I suppose? Of course that would require a great deal of unnecessary plumbing and I'd be hesitant to even pay a professional to do it.

Probably this, the flow rate shouldn't be too high if you can transfer the heat efficiently enough. Alternately, the outside coolant loop could be run through a geothermal loop (or unused radiant floor heating system).

You'd do a lot better to just get an aquarium chiller and be done with it.

MAGIC

CannonFodder wrote:

I like this idea... it would need a bigger pump though, as you'd have a lot of line resistance.

You wouldn't need much water if you dumped the water - if it were always cold (say 50F) you could cut the flow down from what a normal liquid system runs.

I have tests running at work that dump water to drain for the sake of extremely efficient cooling.

Waterfall cooling systems are sweet. I always wanted to build one in a computer cooling system for the fun of it. The only problem would be it would be noisy, but I like the sound of rain or you could put some sort of buffer at the bottom. Also, its an open loop system so you would need something to keep creatures from growing in there.



Heres a paint picture of what I've wanted to build. 5 gallon watercooler jug as the base, 10" PVC pipe for the shoot with 45* elbows for airflow up the shoot. Probably just put a 120mm fan at the top pulling air out. Some sort of shower head at the top. You would need a decent pump as depending on how tall you make it.

Ryder

Bong coolers, I haven't seen one of those in a long time.

Tushon

Ryder wrote:

Bong coolers, I haven't seen one of those in a long time.

Sure ... "coolers" ... I guess that is what some people call them.

drasnor

Bong coolers are neat but you have to top off the coolant often. I guess using a giant tank helps with that though.

Ryder

Tushon wrote:

Sure ... "coolers" ... I guess that is what some people call them.

:wow2:



:shakehead

!!

Tushon

Ryder wrote:

:wow2:



:shakehead

!!

I've never seen such a plethora of emoticons in a response to me. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

ardichoke

Pssh... most efficient cooling system I ever saw involved styrofoam insulation, duct tape, an air filter and an open window in the dorms at Michigan Tech during winter.


Of course that system only worked about 2/3 of the year, but it kept his rig damn cool.

Ryder

I swear I posted these pictures before, but I can't find them.