The Runwell Turntable from Shinola Audio. AMA
primesuspect
Beepin n' BoopinDetroit, MI Icrontian
in Music
primesuspect
Beepin n' BoopinDetroit, MI Icrontian
Comments
Can I have one for testing purposes?
Is there a lid or dustcover for it? I don't see hinge mounts.
Saran wrap i think
Good to see they understand marketing. Only 500, but wait until black friday and then you can get a limited limited black one.
Why would I bother buying this over a Audio-Technica AT-LP60 or Technics SL-1200MK#?
Why would I ever want to buy a belt drive player?
Is it more than a cosmetic look to have those wussy wires exposed where I will eventually snag them on my finger or album sleeve?
Is the on switch a 90 degree twist?
Did Harry Potter make this and inscribe his trademark thunderbolt scar on the front of each one personally?
I love the exploded view.
I think that is a huge part of what Shinola is as a brand. There is a value to something mechanical. Sure, it's old fashioned, but wrist watches, paper journals, turntables, they all offer something that you can touch in a way that all the characterless digital devices can't quite match. It is a beautiful work of functional art.
I still have a massive CD collection, I've toyed with letting it go, but there is something about having a music "collection", I think that is a huge part of the Vinyl experience, that joy of walking into a store picking up a record, putting the needle on it the first time, it is something tangible, you can touch it and feel it, see it work. We can all make a million practical arguments on why it makes little sense when you have formats that are technically superior and cost less, but you can't replace how something like that looks and moves. That turntable, when people see it, they will be like, that Dude loves music.... WANT.
Assuming the store is going to set up a demo, what kind of electronics and speakers will they look to pair with? Any hopes in getting into American speaker manufacturing?
@Kwitko: No
@BuddyJ: No lid or dust cover
@_k:
1: Much higher quality across the board than either of the two tables you mentioned. The main plate and platter alone on the Runwell is worth more than either of those two. When we have the video ready, I can share it with you; explains how much effort MDI put into machining the solid aluminum parts; it's pretty cool. Our pre-amp is custom-designed from the ground up by industry-lauded audio experts and made in the USA. One of the most compelling features which we haven't talked about yet is that our pre-amp and guts are modular; we have a system we're calling the SLED that allows the electronics to be upgraded/swapped with different features.
2: Give me a good reason why a direct drive is better than belt and don't you dare say "vibration" because you don't know.
3: If you snag wussy wires, you're not treating your audio equipment with the careful consideration and delicacy they deserve.
4: Not sure; haven't actually turned it yet. Why would this matter?
5: The lightning bolt has been our mark since day one. Nothing to do with wizards.
@Cliff_Forster: We have our own speakers designed and built by our audio team. They'll be available for sale in 2017 and right now we have enough to have in-store demos in three stores (Detroit, NY, LA). We're building factory space for our speaker division
This branding is exactly why I've always puzzled over the fact that they use quartz movements in the watches instead of automatic.
You could have just asked me
We use quartz because Ronda AG is a financial partner and they did not have a viable way to set up a factory for non-quartz movements in the US, and as job creation was a primary goal of our company, we needed to scale quickly; the niche market for automatic watches is not our customer. Quartz allowed us to come in at a reasonable enough price point to sell the number of watches we needed in order to stay afloat, much less grow. An automatic movement would have put us into the airy niche of watch nerds (the only people who care about movements), which is not a big enough market to accomplish our goals. The quartz watch business has been extremely successful for us; enough so that we were able to grow from 50-600 people in three years. That would have been impossible with automatic. On paper, quartz is better to most people: more accurate, less maintenance. These are the things our customers care about. We're in the market to sell watches, not movements.
Congratulations, you've just been banned from my house forever.
These are all honest questions and I am really trying to understand this product and Shinola's lines overall.
I parsed your reply so it was more readable /s.
@primesuspect
1. I am reading that as its better because we made it more expensive. Why does making those machined solid aluminum really make the table better? There must be tables out you are competing against besides the more mass produced professional tables everyone else says is good enough. Who are you'r direct competitors via price and/or quality?
2. Uh belt is the drive system that claims it reduces vibration. Belt has more variance in playback speed. Belts will eventually stretch, I have listened to hours of records on a turn table with a stretched belt and it is super obvious. Back when you were born everyone took the effort to get off belt drives. I feel like the idea that belt is equal is sort of revisionist marketing to be different.
3. Shit happens man. KISS, "This design is fine as long as you never push this button at eye level right by the door"....what does the button due besides create failure point. The belt is even exposed so you know its belt drive.....but why.....
4. It doesn't matter, you said AMA.
5. Ya, that is like saying I am not a lizard person from the center of the Earth
But honestly @djmeph and @mas0n should talk about this stuff since they have real experience. I assume they are the dudes that when people ask them spin some dirty nasty sets they immediately pull out the wax paper.
I'm such a sucker for vintage speaker designs, I know whatever Shinola is doing is going to be nice.
Is there no tempo slider? Or speed selector for 33/45?
I'm assuming based on the photos I can see of it.
Yes, 33 and 45 RPM are selectable by the knob on the lower-left corner, looking down
An interview with Alex Rosson from Shinola Audio.
Some early looks
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016/11/26/shinola-launch-party-its-the-runwell-turntable/?utm_content=buffer45dbc&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
http://www.analogplanet.com/content/shinola-launches-new-runwell-turntable#RghRu3mda0jC5qLw.97
Re: belt vs direct drive.
Usage of a modern material belt would alleviate much of the stretching of a pure rubber belt.
Timing belts have a kevlar or similar material in them which doesn't stretch like rubber or steel over time.
From the rest of a product design standpoint:
Can't really speak to any of the aluminum machining bits, other than if you have thin metal plates, you run a much higher risk of some form of vibration showing up vs a solid chunk of metal (more mass is usually less vibration.) So in this case, I think more metal = more cost = higher quality. I would presume some testing or modeling went into this.
I think the wires are dumb from both a practical and design aspect. Should have at least a protective sheath. It also just LOOKS weak compared to the rest of the high quality thing.
I spoke with two experts on this matter. One was the main designer and the other was a decades-long industry expert who runs a very high-profile audiophile review magazine and website.
Both spoke very highly of belt-driven turntables. Both said that the benefits of direct drive are overblown by consumer perception and that in order to make a GOOD direct drive, it drives the cost up unnecessarily for no extra benefit. Belt drives are excellent, do not suffer from slippage (modern materials, as Ryan mentioned), and solve the vibration issue at a much lower cost. There are tables out there that cost 5- and 6- figures that have belt drives rather than direct-drive motors.
Re: the wires
They are designed to give a bit of pull; they act as a spring for the tone arm in a sense. The cable has plugs at both ends and is replaceable.
https://www.wired.com/2016/12/shinola-runwell-turntable
This is the part that I'm hoping people will catch on to. This is what sets us way apart from others:
"The Runwell, he says, uses modular electronics that he plans to open source. Rosson imagines people adding pre-amps, Sonos and Chromecast support, SD card encoding, even modern DJ tools. “We’re trying to make it flexible so we can talk to audiophiles,” he says, “but my goal is to make something that’s simple, innovative, and has a way to expand on it.” He wants to sell you a turntable that you’ll use for decades, upgrading it as you like."
The words "open source turntable" do make me super happy. That said, I know there's a huge journey (and struggle) between "he plans to open source" and a fully-realized open source product ecosystem. So I love the sentiment, but I'm not putting out the bunting until we see where that idea goes.
I'm stealing this.
Also, gimme tablez.
Details about the Shinola Runwell Turntable
Oh?
$2,500... ouch.
Our speakers launched.
Scot Hull from Part Time Audiophile wrote up some of the details of the Shinola Runwell turntable.
The first very thorough review I've seen, and he got a pre-production sample sled that bypasses the built-in phono pre: https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/vinyl/turntables/shinola-runwell-turntable-review/
Hmm... "PAGE NOT FOUND... OOPS!"
Weird. I read it yesterday at that link. Seems to be gone from their site.