!SPOILERS DISCUSSION THREAD! Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
UPSLynx :KAPPA:Redwood City, CA Icrontian
edited December 2019 in Movies & TV
Alright yall, you went and saw it. Now come here and talk about it.
ABSOLUTELY LAST WARNING, TOTES SPOILERS AHEAD DO NOT READ UNLESS YOU LIKE SPOILERS LIKE SOME KINDA WEIRDO.
Man can you believe Jar Jar Binks was Rey's dad all along?
Just got home and there's a lot to process.
I managed to avoid all spoilers, reviews and reactions. Felt good to go in with a clean mind on it (the only exception was a news headline that google thought I'd be interested in so I got a push notification. Jerks.). I was shocked to pull out my phone when the credits were rolling to find out..... everyone hates it?
I really enjoyed the film. I felt like it saved the first two films and gave us a trilogy arc that I was pretty happy with. It does feel like right off the back JJ is out there fixing issues with TLJ, and I'm sure people will complain that this film is too safe, or too fan-servicy, but those are the things I -want- in a Star Wars film.
I'm so glad we got the real Luke Skywalker in this movie. I was so pushed away by his character arc in TLJ, it's so good seeing him in tip top shape (as a ghost) recognizing the err of his ways in the past, and passing along knowledge to Rey as a master. And I'm glad we got to see young Luke training Leia. It really helps with the outer space moment in TLJ.
I felt they handled Leia's death in a proper way. Knowing they were only using cutting room floor scraps and a body double, the way she went was respectful and impactful. I'm glad Carrie had a presence in this film.
I love that we finally see Rey truly flawed and dealing with MASSIVE struggle. I had suspected she might be a Palpatine for awhile (her fighting style kinda gave it away) but that force lightning on the troop carrier was a huge holy shit moment in this movie. I thought for sure Chewbacca was dead based on Rey and Finn's cries, and I started to cry at the end of that scene.
Speaking of crying, I'm so glad Chewie finally got his emotional moment after they return and learn that Leia was gone. I needed that scene, especially after his lack of reaction after Han died when he just walked past Leia like nothing had happened in TFA. Chewie has been through some major shit, and he's finally breaking down in this movie.
Also Chewie finally got his medal. Hell yes.
Basically, Chewie is the real hero here.
Also holy shit can we talk about how Emperor Palpatine had a goddam Raiders of the Lost Ark moment? Homie got his face melted off by his own force lightning. Shit was gnarly as hell.
OH and the KISS. Yo our theater was only like half full (bay area Thursday night just before Chirstmas, whole area is empty cuz transplants) and there were gasps and outright belly laughs. I actually felt myself sit back like holy what now. I have some questions and I love that Rey and Kylo connected like they did but man did that feel like it was out of nowhere.
The kiss was out of no where? Did we see the same two movies?
Mixed bag for me.
If we are being honest with ourselves, who seriously thinks Disney knew what the ending was going to be all along? They went into this trilogy thinking three different filmmakers were each going to take a chapter, which is madness unless you have some kind of master overseer, a Lucas or Feige. I will say, thank the maker that they decided to sack the guy who failed to make a decent Star Lord vs. the Dinosaurs film in favor of Abrams who I at least think cares deeply about Star Wars and wanted to make a film fans would enjoy. This problem remains though.... anyone who understands how to write a decent story arc knows, you start with your ending so you know what you build to. George Lucas always knew where he was headed. He wasn't making it up as he went along. This trilogy feels so disjointed, I'm going to just say it.... The prequel's were probably at least as good as these films.
Anyhow. I'm still a massive fanboy. There are things in Star Wars films that you don't get anywhere else. The cheer worthy moments, Artoo fixing the hyper-drive at the end of Empire, Rey beats Ren for Luke's saber in Awakens, and come on, who can say no to Lando. I loved it, they send Lando out to charm the shit out of the galaxy so they are all like, fuck it, we will risk our lives for this dude because maybe it will make us as cool as he is (it won't but a star pilot can dream). It was a good use of the Lando character and it created a literal cheer worthy moment. Loved that.
The action sequence with a Star Destroyer docked inside an atmosphere so they could have a ground battle on top of it. Genius, seriously, loved that sequence. It was slick and inventive.
Threepio withholding the information because of his programming and having that fun little gibberish speaking alien hack him was fun.
Poe's arc and his relationship with Finn. We know in the last film that Poe's actions cost Rose's sister her life. He stages a mutiny because Holdo distrusts him to simply tell him what the plan is. It makes some sense that when Finn gets back, they still love each other like brothers do, but there is real tension there. Poe is revealed to be a former criminal who maybe joined the resistance for the wrong reasons at first. Maybe a new place to fit in, craving adventure, excitement.. hmmmm.... And over the course of the film we see him grow in a really satisfying way. I liked the moment at Leia's wake, sort of praying to her, trying to find the humility required to lead, having the strength to look to others for help. It was a satisfying ark. Well done there.
But... If you are going to introduce Keri Russell as a former love interest of Poe's can we all agree that she is just too damn good looking to leave a helmet on her the entire time?
Leia was handled extraordinarily well given the circumstances. Mad props to Abrams there. He took that lemon and squeezed the hell out of it to create a sensible, satisfying conclusion to her story. It actually does just enough to redeem the Mary Poppins scene.
Okay, so there is some praise, let's get dirty a bit.
The one thing I absolutely 100% loved about The Last Jedi that I know some people didn't was the reveal that Rey was nobody in particular. I love that idea, the force, it reaches out to her, it uses her as a vessel because of a combination of factors, she is strong willed, courageous, a survivor, in the right place at the right time, the force just sort of reaches out and selects her, and I loved that, and the scene at the end with the kid and the broom, just some random kid doing chores, a true believer, someone with hope... I like that. It's magic, nothing more. But now..... Oh yeah, you are the granddaughter of a Sith, who we can't imagine getting jiggy to make a baby to begin with but I guess he did, or used the force to clone or whatever... Meh... I hate that, like Anakin Hate's Obi Wan at the end of ROTS Hate it. See, I get that it was disjointed, it was obviously teased in seven. This is the fault of Disney for not having a cohesive plan going in. Johnson while he made some serious missteps, was brave enough to restore some magic to the idea of the force, and now I feel like it's sort of taken out of the realm of fantasy and turned into Science Fiction, and friends, Star Wars is fantasy, it's not Sci Fi.
I digress... Here is where the real Sins of the Father idea could have had amazing weight and exposition, and it was failed in a short cameo that was a nice cameo but if I made this film filled with half of it chasing a mystical McGuffin, I might have give Luke a little more attention. The whole sins of the father, will she turn arc never makes sense because at no point in the prior two films do you think of Rey as anything other than pure of spirit, one of the good guys, Rey is just straight up a good guy, nothing you could do in this film would have made me think for ten seconds that Rey was going to fail... Pointless, but.... Hey, you know Luke locked himself away from the force for a long time allowing the galaxy to fall into chaos when he could have helped... Why? Well, for one we know he had a moment of weakness thinking he may murder Ben in his sleep. But take it a step further, in the official Cannon it's revealed that Anakin is in fact the dark force seed of Palpatine. So Rey goes back to the island, meets Luke, Luke explains his plight, his fear, his uncertainty about who he is, the sins of his father, nature vs. nurture, you could have had a real impactful character study into the most important character of the entire nine film arc by simply adding two minutes of exposition. Instead you make a joke about the last film, you let him have a Yoda fan service moment (which was awesome) but... the handling of Luke in the force realm was shallow. It could have been so much more.
Chewie cheap fake death, cheap trick, I hate it. Without any significant loss in the entire film it lacked any serious emotional weight. I felt emotionally empty at the end of this film.
The moment with Han, once again, Star Wars is a story of redemption, we understand that's part of it. Han can always turn back around and do the right thing, Anakin can fight back against his oppressor, Kylo Ren could embrace Ben Solo again, but just something about the way that is done feels like cheap fan service. Han was murdered by his son. He has to live with that, he has to find his way through that. Just having him show up as a force memory or whatever and being like, hey kid, it's cool.... My Dad would have whipped my ass. I don't have a problem with the predictability of the redemption story, as soon as I saw Rey heal that serpent I knew she would have a chance to do it for Ben. Anyone could see that coming. I don't have a problem with it, but what would have worked is to have Ben flashback, maybe as a kid for a moment, maybe sharing a smile with is Mom and Dad, maybe a kind moment with Luke as well, and look down at his healed wound and have him throw the saber away there. Having Harrison Ford show up for a scene, meh... Fan Service at it's worst.
Where the hell was Rose?? I'll tell you, they held her down in this to keep the toxic fans happy. She was the best damn character introduction in the last film. She was the beating heart of that movie, and in this one, it's like, here she is, we will just kind of keep her back here where she won't bother you toxic fanbros. A weak and cowardly treatment of a fantastic character.
So here you have Palpatine, hooked up to some contraption to stay alive, I don't mind having him there, there is obvious precedent for him surviving in the old expanded universe. He does tease these abilities in Revenge of the Sith, I'm happy they returned to this central villain, but... The plan... The same lame ass plan to turn the good guy as before, let's try to execute that failed play again. And I don't like how you have this super Sith fleet, and you are not sure how it's all connected to the First Order, and really, that's one of the difficult things to understand in this version of Star Wars. The politics, whose in charge, it feels really confusing. If nobody can find this place without a Sith wayfinder which is obviously impossible to find, how does he have hordes of people to build spaceships and clone a million little sith lords in robes... It's just weird. I can suspend disbelief but at least get me a little exposition on whats happening instead of just throwing it in there lazy.
The kiss was stupid. Why did those intense feelings need to be romance. Just because the hero is a girl... well guess she has to want to kiss somebody. It's dumb. Rey is too busy for that shit. I appreciate a tender moment, a thanks for returning the favor, a smile, a warm embrace as he drifts away with the force, but a kiss, is that what girls really want in their hero? Hey, you abused me for three films but now it's cool, lets make out...
Anyhow, this has gotten way TLDR... My point is this, I'm still a mega Star Wars nerd, but I honestly think that this was the worst chapter in this three story ark. Disney faltered under the weight of an enormous legacy. Still, they are good films, there is a lot of good stuff there, but I honestly don't think they are any less flawed than the prequels. Mind you, I'm one of the few people I know that enjoys the prequels, so from me it isn't as big a criticism, but I've come to the conclusion, nothing will ever make me feel like the original trilogy.
"Where the hell was Rose?? I'll tell you, they held her down in this to keep the toxic fans happy. She was the best damn character introduction in the last film. She was the beating heart of that movie, and in this one, it's like, here she is, we will just kind of keep her back here where she won't bother you toxic fanbros. A weak and cowardly treatment of a fantastic character."
That's about the only part of your diatribe I'll 100% agree with you on.
So you 99% agree with me on the rest?
Came in with no reviews and spoilers. Thoroughly enjoyed the movie end to end. Honestly, I'm probably going to not read anything more about it review wise, because I simply don't care about what other people want to pick apart and destroy. Loved the droid hacker, fight scenes / force through space stuff was so well done, space wizards. That is all.
I think a lot of the criticism comes from adults critiquing a movie that is, while maybe not necessarily "made" for kids, at the very least panders to them heavily. Is that for toy sales? Sure why not, fuck it. Always has been.
When I read these highfalutin "critics" delve into this with headlines like "The Rise of Skywalker is a disastrous conclusion to the trilogy" like, seriously? Get over yourself. "Disastrous" like Star Wars is out there to change the world of cinema.
The Rise of Skywalker was rushed, that's for sure, but how could it not be? This story has already spanned forty years of real time, 90 years of Star Wars time, and three generations of the classic good vs evil trope. You can't fit that much into nine films without asking the audience to heavily suspend disbelief, be willing to fill in a lot of gaps, and just accept that the Star Wars brand is SPECTACLE. It's the sounds. It's the music. It's the comfort food in the form of familiar characters, recurring tropes, and yes, the ever-present Macguffin.
I think it's easy to forget how fucking awesome it is to hear the lightsabers fire up, to hear the clash, to see the flashes, to hear the blasters, the roar of the TIE fighters, the roar of Chewbacca, the blips and beeps of the droids... to see the alien landscapes and awesome creatures that we all know are puppets (and very little effort is made to hide that). If you go into it with the mindset that you want "STAR WARS" to wash over you, and you aren't looking to critique story cohesiveness, character development, or plot sensibilities.... I think you will love The Rise of Skywalker as I did.
The fucking EPIC SCOPE of the super bad guy's ultimate evil lair, I mean holy shit. LANDING HORSES ON A STAR DESTROYER. Palpatine finally bringing back a truly menacing Imperial military. Palpatine's truly incredible evil and the final conclusion of a nine-movie bad guy arc. The epic vehicles, ships, and dogfights (though I'll admit there wasn't enough TIE fighter in this movie for my tastes), and goddamn Kylo Ren's ship is ABSOLUTELY fucking awesome. Kylo's artifact room on his ship was stunning set design, CLASSIC Star Wars with the glossy white panels, white oblong lights, and menacing monotones. His new mask was dope. I fucking loved it all.
The point is, many people are just sort of "used" to Star Wars, but if you go into this with the same eyes you went into the first movies, as a wide-eyed 8-year-old who wants to be a space hero, holy fuck dude. Fuckin' hell. What a goddamn trip.
"Having Harrison Ford show up for a scene, meh... Fan Service at it's worst."
I feel pretty certain that scene was supposed to be Leia, not Han. Given the situation, I think they tagged in Han because a CG Leia just wouldnt have worked for that emotional scene.
You May have a point there. I am sure Leia would have been featured more prominently if they could.
Okay, so here's my more complete thoughts:
To start out with, I liked it a lot. It's getting panned more than I think it deserves, but I also get why. As others have said, this all goes back to Disney not setting a complete story arc for them to follow. From what I understand, JJ then wrote his own story arc, which Rian decided not to use. I assume that JJ then tried to get things back on track with the original story he envisioned, which...didn't go great. I actually think that the problem here is JJ-- I think Rian wasn't perfect, but did some really interesting things with the story. I think it would have also been really interesting to see what the original third director wanted to do-- might have been able to roll with Rian's changes without feeling tied to some original grand idea they'd had.
I think the story would have been better if JJ had coped better with the modifications Rian made. The Last Jedi's message is-- you don't have to be a skywalker or from a massive lineage to be important and special, nor does the conflict in the story have to be from a mystical legacy force conflict. Then, Rise of Skywalker starts, and they're like-- Okay so all that stuff about how being part of a legacy doesn't matter? Yea, let's throw that all away and bring back Palpatine! Even though we haven't mentioned him at all in the previous two movies. (I assume that JJ's script had more Palpatine stuff in the 2nd movie). Also, even though you've literally not heard anything about him in the other two movies or the Sith, they've secretly been lurking on a planet with tons of star destroyers! Which they could have rolled out at any time and completely crushed the resistance, but didn't because...reasons?
I don't feel like Palpatine or the star destroyers were necessary at all. The first order had ALREADY totally decimated the resistance-- they didn't really need another death star/star killer base/fleet of death stars to be up against tremendous odds.
Also, JJ just totally ignores Rose Tico? Not sure if that's because of the massive fan backlash last time, in that he wanted to avoid, or maybe he wanted to protect her. I hope if it's because of the fans, then it was to protect her, not appease them.
Another issue with the lack of planning with these movies is they do such a good job of introducing really interesting characters, and then under-utilizing them. Maybe they're setting up for 50 Disney Plus shows? But look at Rose Tico/Phasma/the Hacker/ Zorri, etc.
That being said, I do love a lot about the movie. I love the chemistry between Rey and Ben, so all of their scenes were really great, in my opinion. I also feel like this movie did a great job from the last one in showing how Rey's anger gets in her way and calls her to the dark side. I do feel like maybe the Reylo stuff was a bit too much of the movie? But I also like how they show how much she fucks up because of it. She gets so busy being distracted by Kylo that she lets Chewy get captured, abandons her friends multiple times, etc. Their fight scenes are great too, of course, especially at the end when she force sends him a lightsaber, totally surprising Grandpa Sheevy. I didn't want them to kiss, because that feels too stereotypical, but I felt like they had off the charts chemistry. If he had to die, I'm glad they got to kiss first. In my head canon he lives but loses the force and then goes to Luke's island, where she eventually joins him, they end up together, and help train new Jedi together. I mean, that is, if he wasn't executed for war crimes first. #FanFiction
I loved Babu Frik and I hope he gets his own show.
Was really happy with Chewy in this movie, aside from the death fakeout. Glad he got to have a real grief moment after he got forgotten in The Force Awakens, and got a medal. Also liked the C3PO got to have a moment.
I think they did as well with Leia as they possibly could have, and I definitely think that they brought back Han because they couldn't bring back her. I loved that Rey got her lightsaber.
I'm really interested to see where things go from here. I'll watch Rey and Finn and Poe all day any day. Not sure how much they'll be featured in the extended universe from here on out. Seems pretty obvious they're setting up for a Lando show.
100% here for Ben Solo fighting bad guys in a loose sweater
Phew. I'm not sure my feels could have handled much more than the hammering they got this evening.
Kicked off almost immediately with Lando's reveal. Yeah, I knew it was coming. But I'm a sucker for fan-service and I don't care who knows it.
The act around Leia's final moments hit hard. Chewie's breakdown punched me right in the gut. When Han died in TFA, he was hurt and angry. When he heard the news about Leia, he was heartbroken and I'm getting twinges just typing this bit out. Some of the difference could also just be Joonas Suotomo being a better actor than Peter Mayhew was (RIP). And before I can even recover? Han Solo father-son talk. FFs.
I had a hard time catching my breath during the big battle. It was just so big and epic and so very Abrams.
Rey's Jedi voices hit me hard again. Mace Windu, Qui Gon. Obi Wan(s). Everyone. Just so well done and ow my feels again.
My only "meh" was the kiss. Yeah they had all that tension build up in TLJ, but it just was "meh". A tearful hug would have been more impactful and much better executed, IMO.
Oldest asked when we can go see it again.
Soon, my son.
@AlexDeGruven I think he would have actually been more upset about Han too-- a tearful hug with Leia would have been nice. But JJ admitted that he straight up forgot about that. I think that's why it was featured in this film, he wanted a redo.
Man, was that disappointing.
Palpatine lineage - lame
Palpatine resurrection - lame
Rey-Ben Kiss - SQUICKY
Ben dying - necessary because you were never gonna redeem Kylo like you could not redeem Vader
General plotting - pretty weak fanfiction
Robot hacker alien - awesome
New droid with PTSD - adorable
Rey killing a random carrier and it having no emotional weight because hey, at least Chewie wasn't on it, it was just a bunch of other random people she killed - fuck JJ Abrams
Read nothing. Knew nothing. It ties ESB for me. It was what I wanted and needed.
Exquisite. Everything it needed to be.
The Last Jedi remains my top pick, but it was able to do that, in part, by ignoring the larger plot momentum, which obviously number 9 lacked the ability to do.
My only critique was that the first 30 minutes felt hurried to the point of being a bit unglued, but all was forgiven by the end.
Wanna know what broke me? Chewie finally getting his goddamn medal.
Every meta critique of “the master plan” vs JJ vs Rian etc is like... OK sure obviously you know how to make movies better, my bad for enjoying exactly what happened. 🙃
Okay so, Rey is a Skywalker now-- how's this the end of the Skywalker saga? Did they mean the end of the bio skywalkers?
Okay, so the Mrs. comes up with this interesting thought at dinner. We were discussing the film, things I enjoyed, things that kind of bothered me as a fan. She really liked the bit with Han and her thought was, well... Didn't Leia use her force powers to basically bring him back from the netherworld of the force to talk to Ben? And I didn't really consider that, I thought at that point she had already died after calling out to him, but so much happened so fast, I can't recall.
@GnomeQueen That's kind of how I saw it. The Skywalker bloodline ended with Ben, hence the end of the main saga. But, since she was able to choose who she wanted to be, being raised as noone, she chose to become a Skywalker rather than stay a Palpatine.
Wasn’t Anakin canonically the product of Palpatine using the force to impregnate his mother? Which makes the Skywalkers the not-actual-but-sort-of bloodline of Palpatine.
It wasn’t really the Skywalker saga I guess, it was the Palpatine saga. A multi-generational Sith plot that destroyed intergalactic civilization but failed to ultimately control it, instead ending the centuries-old Sith order.
His final living progeny disowning him was the ultimate end, then.
CONTROVERSIAL OPINION: BEN SOLO THRUST HIS HOT FORCE LOVE INTO REY AND NOW SHE HAS ABSORBED THE SKYWALKER ESSENCE
but also she literally has his life force inside of her, and 1000 generations of Jedi before them, so she can take on whatever name she wants. Is blood thicker than the force? Dunno
Second viewing was even better.
Lol I am seeing theories on the internet that Ben force impregnated Rey when he touched her stomach before bringing her back to life. Looking forward to the resulting awful fan fiction.
And if @Linc says, that Anakin Skywalker was fathered by Palpatine due to the force...that means we got wincest all over again.