Trouble-->Sil3112A on Albatron KX18D-PROII

mr-malt

Hello all...
Just registered after thoroughly scanning with the search function and finding no answers to my problem. I pieced a new comp together over the span of several paychecks, researching as I went, so that I could build the best machine within my budget.

Specs are as follows:
Albatron KX18D-PROII (shipped with latest R106 bios)
Barton 2500
Mushkin PC3200 Black Level2 2x256 (in DIMMS 2&3)
Hitachi 7K250 80gb SATA drive (attached at SATA port A)
Radeon 9500 Pro
MSI combo drive (Primary IDE Master)
FDD
USB mouse and keyboard

The problem:
Wanting to install XP Pro on fresh HDD. Made boot floppys as cd isn't bootable.
I can not access a SATA/Raid bios by either the Ctrl+S or F4 function at boot up (to see if drive is recognized). Motherboard has dip switch for Sata function, this is set to on.
HDD is powered by legacy connection (tried this and the provided legacy-> sata converter, made no difference).

The options pertaining to sata function on this particular board---On board Raid boot first (have tried both enable/disable) and setting 3rd boot device to SCSI (along with aformentioned switch on mobo). Thus boot order = FDD, CDROM, SCSI.

Connections are good and tight.

I have no idea if the mobo even has knowledge of the HDD...wish the voice genie could answer that for me speaking of, it hasn't said a thing ever, does it not think a mass storage device is necessary? I tried running diagnostics from Hitachi's site; it states no adapter found? hmmm

So, anyhoo,
I go through XP setup floppys, pressing F6 and installing latest Sil3112A drivers from siimage site. They install, or seem to, though during disk 6 when asked if I want to proceed with xp install, it tells me no mass storage device has been found and install can't continue

So, what can I try next....is it a bad board, hdd, what??
I don't hear the HDD ever during this time (unless it's very quiet, but the HDD LED does flicker now and then.

I'm just starting to think that my Alby doesn't even know my HDD is on the sata port, maybe it's fault, OR maybe a faulty drive, BUT I have read the likelihood of a configuration problem is greater than an RMA one .

BTW, I am also currently waiting on Albatron's Dr. Pro to reply on this.
I figure most have not had any dealings with this particular board, though it does use the common 3112 controller, albeit going about it's enabling somewhat differently.
TIA

Park_7677

Welcome to Short-Media! I hope we can help you.

I find the fact that you can't enter the SATA BIOS is very odd. Do you know what version of SATA BIOS you have?

Also, if you're not using SATA RAID, make sure you don't try to use the RAID drivers! There are RAID and IDE for download at SI's website if you want them.

Provided you're connections are tight and you're using the correct driver, I think the motherboard is having problems recongnizing the HDD. Windows would see it if it exists, I mean it sees HDDs disabled in the BIOS for goodness sakes!

I own 2 Hitachi drives in RAID0 and these drives are very quiet. I can't hear mine, I have to feel them spinning with my fingers. I'm sure your drive is running fine

There are many guys around here who know a lot, so I have no doubt you'll get this sorted soon

-PaRK

mr-malt

Thanks for the welcome.
I can't say on the Sata bios version, though it is my understanding that it's integrated into the mainboard bios? If indeed the case, the mb bios is dated 11.21.03.
If only they'd release a new bios with the most current sata bios utilized.
As far as drivers...I was thinking I read on these forums during a search, that controllers supporting raid should use the sata raid drivers regardless of whether or not one was actually going to raid drives. That is, as opposed to using straight sata drivers on a 3112 or other controller that supported raid. Is this info incorrect?

To think I tried so hard to perfectly apply my .0005" layer of AS5, oh well. If it needs RMA'd, so be it.

Park_7677

First off, yes, SATA BIOS is integrated into the motherboard's BIOS. I or someone else here can find out what SATA BIOS you have simply with the motherboard BIOS version and/or date. I would but I've got to head to bed in a second. Some times, it's even possible to slip in your own preferred version or latest SATA BIOS into the motherboard BIOS without having the manufacturer do so. We'll look into that for you as well

Second, I don't know if there is any difference using the RAID or IDE SATA Drivers for the SI 3112A. I've only had a RAID with my SATAs, and because SI has 2 different drivers, I figured they were for what the name donated. I may be wrong.. we'll find out soon. Forgive me if I spoke falsely :o

Also, don't worry.. the people here will go to the end of the world to find a solution. RMAing is only suggested with good reason

Hope you enjoy it here with us at Short-Media!

-PaRK

mr-malt

PaRK, on your suggestion, I did download sata ide drivers version 11052. I tried them, but no go as before. I also tried Sata port B, same again. Also left case open to check for hard drive life signs, but didn't detect any (touched drive, but felt absolutely nothing). However, it was new OEM, so have difficulting suspecting it as the problem. Then again, the mobo was new as well....
I still hope for that 230fsb that I read about for this board (hey, a man can hope)....too bad I need a HDD and OS to check stability .
I appreciate the help thus far!

Flintstone

Along the same lines as Mr Malt's problem, I just turned on my NF7S w/Sil 3112A controller and 2 of the same IBM/Hitachi drives connected and I also can't get into the Raid util. On boot, the process stops at:

Press <Ctrl+S> or F$ to enter RAID utility
Primary Channel:

and it stops right there with the cursor flashing after the colon. No entry is accepted and it's just frozen there. All the temps are OK in the bios and all is as I left it when I last shut it down. It has a raid 0 setup on the 2 drives and is apparently having a problem seeing the drives.

Any Ideas?

Thanks,
Flint

I don't mean to hijack the thread, I see it as on the same topic. If not, blow out the post and I'll repost. Thanks.

Flintstone

Update--
I went in and unplugged all SATA dirve connections and power cables, replugged them and tried again and i fired right up. it did a checkdisk and recovered a bunch of orphaned files but it's up and running as I type. I therefore suggest that everyone check connections before assuming that things are truely broken!!

Humbly

Flint

Park_7677

Glad to see you've got stuff running again Flintstone

mr malt:

When you felt the HDD, where did you do it? I have to find its "pulse".. I usually feel on the top of the label. I have to be very still to feel anything as these drives are nice Don't mean to second guess you or insult your intelligence, but could you double check both the SATA data cables and power cables? It's just that the data cables are loose by default.. may trick the best of us. I just want to rule out the easy ones before we dig deep into this is all

I've got your BIOS and have found out that the SATA BIOS it uses is old. The latest is 4247.rom, as you see below Albatron uses 4212.rom. This is a couple of versions old . Your BIOS is able to have the SATA BIOS replaced very simply. It can be done, but there will need to be an understanding of a disclaimer if later on you want to do so.

8. PCI ROM 0C000h(48.00K)05DFCh(23.50K)4212.rom

With the information above it would be best to see if there are any reported problems with SATA BIOS 4.2.12, Hitachi drives, and/or Albatron boards.

Right now, I'm looking for change logs of SATA BIOSes to see if there's mention of either your HDD or board. I'm also looking at reviews for both the Albatron KX18D-PROII and Hitachi 7K250 to see if they are ever reviewed using one another successfully. I'll gather what I can and see if there's any conflicts between the 2 pieces of hardware.

I'll post back as soon as I find something or run into a dead end.

-PaRK

Park_7677

Just to make sure.. your HDD looks like mine below? And your SATA switch looks like the posted?

Spinner

Just to confirm something. I don't for one minute think the problem you are experiencing is driver related, but for reference purposes.

You can, and in my opinion should, use the RAID drivers e.g v1.0.0.47 for your SI 3x12 controller whether you are using RAID or not. It works fine that way, and in my experience best.

I am still struggling to find information on what the function is of the IDE versions of the SI 3x12 controller drivers, seeing as the RAID drivers work fine for both single disk and RAID setups. Perhaps there are non-RAID versions of the 3x12 contoller. But if you're sure your 3x12 controller has RAID functionality, then you should use the RAID drivers. They will work fine for individual disks.

With regard to the topic's main complaint - Are you sure your HD's are actually spinning up? are you sure they are getting power? You should however be able to see the SATA controller BIOS upon POST whether they are or not. Hmmm.

The only instance I've ever known for the SATA Bios screen not to appear on POST (when it was enabled) was when the relating BIOS rom is absent from the motherboard BIOS itself. But under those circumstances the controller should still be detected as a hardware component in Windows.

I know you said there is a switch on the mobo for enabling/disabling the controller but I would just check there isn't a secondary one in the CMOS bios itself aswell.

mr-malt

First off, thanks to all for their replies and assistance in this matter.


PaRK,
I felt for HDD life at the top, right by the label....though this is the first new drive I've had, literally, in years. I honestly won't say if it's running or not, unless I were able to compare against another. Maybe they're making them that good now?

Of the reviews I read for this board (those that I could google), none mentioned my particular HDD, nor was there much mention of using a sata drive on the test rigs either. If they did, nothing was mentioned regarding install difficulties. Actually, most were positive, and had anyone run into this particular problem, it should have soured them a little against it :rolleyes2.

As for the pics, yes that's my HDD's butt, and that's my board's switches (all to "on").

Spinner,
I have now tried both driver types, though I know this board/controller supports sata raid 0,1 (though no raid support for IDE drives).

I'm quite sure that the HDD is powered, as I am using a direct connector from the PSU (the only other item on that lead is my floppy, and it's getting juice).

Maybe the bios rom is missing on this particular board....it's starting to look quite possible?

I have scoured the bios for other options relating to sata, the only one's present are the boot order (using "SCSI" for sata drives) and "Onboard Raid Boot First" (have tried this both enabled and disabled). Nothing else relates to the sata controller.

At this time, I only have the one hdd on this computer, and have yet to load windows successfully, so can't check to see if it's seeing it.


So.....let's talk about integrating the latest Sil3112A bios into my board's R1.06 bios.....maybe there wasn't one present to begin with? On that note, should I reflash my board with the R1.06 bios from the site?? See if it was a fluke? I'm willing to try either to get this rig up and running .

Park_7677

An easy way to see if the HDD is on would to be to "hold it touching" on something sensitive while power is on. If you have glass drinking cups, fill one with some water. Then, hold your drive against the side softly, see if the water moves as if the drive is spinning. Then you'll have your answer about the drive running or not

Also, I failed to find a review where they mentioned ANYTHING about SATA besides that it has it. Sort of a dead end we have there. I've also Googled a bit, and no result of problems.

mr malt wrote:

So.....let's talk about integrating the latest Sil3112A bios into my board's R1.06 bios.....maybe there wasn't one present to begin with? On that note, should I reflash my board with the R1.06 bios from the site?? See if it was a fluke? I'm willing to try either to get this rig up and running .

1) Changing out the SATA BIOS version is a couple of simple commands and it's done. Very simple. I'll do it for you if you want I've done it for my own BIOSes MANY times (10+ .. flash happy you may call me ) and they have all worked just fine.

2) You could reflash with the BIOS from the site, however you'd still have the older SATA BIOS. Basically, I doubt that there is a difference from yours and the one off the site. The modified version I can offer is the same BIOS from the website (downloaded hours ago), just modified

mr-malt

PaRK,
Just remembered reading a review on newegg regarding sata and this board (a little over halfway down). I had gone through the consumer reviews before purchase....can't recall why that particular one didn't stick with me :banghead:,seriously though, they were all positive but that one.

Another thought, wouldn't I have a sata bios as long as it was enabled on the board....regardless of whether the drive hooked to it worked or not? Then it would just not have a drive listed when viewing it?

Also, any clarification on the "Onboard Raid Boot First" as is in the bios.
Manual states for definition:
"If you install over two SCSI devices then this item allows the system to boot from the onboard Raid controller device."
If I had even just a single drive on my 3112 controller, wouldn't I still want the system to boot from/through it? You could say I'm confused regarding this setting. Though enabling/disabling didn't seem to make a difference. Why can't my voice genie help me??? Aren't mass storage devices important to a functional system? I thought it seemed kinda gimmicky .

I'll check the hardware first, then maybe we can give that modded bios a shot?

Park_7677

I read the Newegg review, not good news considering he's the only one who bothered to write about SATA--and it doesn't work.

However, consider:

1) He doesn't elaborate on "Also tried all kinds of BIOS tricks, etc, but to no avail." Could mean he reflashed 1 version of the BIOS over, tried all BIOSes on Albatron's site, or actually took time to swap out the SATA BIOSes. Even if he did swap SATA BIOSes, the review is old enough (12/18/2003) that there have been new SATA BIOSes released after.

2) He says the Windows install hangs. Yours, gauging from your original post, does not. It just simply does not see your HDD.

I have the modded BIOS done, so let me just get this out of the way:

DISCLAIMER:
BIOS supplied "as-is" with no guarantee. I, nor Short-Media, take responsibility for damage that may be caused by using said BIOS. BIOS passes CBROM checks of being a valid BIOS, but you agree to use it without beta testing. By downloading, you forfeit signature agreement. Blah Blah...

^ Something like that

If you want to try it, I'll upload it for ya and supply any help ya need.

mr-malt

My plan for after work tomorrow-->
Double check all connections, check HDD for power. Then, if I haven't heard from Albatron, or if the reply is not conclusive, I'll flash the modded bios. I have no problem taking responsibility for the flash. It's not like Albatron is keeping up with bios revisions anyhow.
If you wouldn't mind throwing it up, I'll get it tomorrow PM. You have been most helpful on this matter, let me know if you need health advice on your dog or cat;).

Park_7677

Here ya go. It's packaged just like it's from Albatron. I also included the CBROM dump files of the BIOS before and after the SATA BIOS swap.

The SATA BIOS happens to be file #8 on the list ("PCI ROM[.B]") inside the logs. Version indicated by the filename at the end of the line. --- For those who care.

Albatron KX18D ProII
BIOS R1.06 (2003/11/21) with SATA BIOS 4.2.47


Enjoy I guess I'll hear from you tomorrow then.

-PaRK

profdlp

I've been following this thread with interest, since I'm hoping to go the SATA route soon. Don't worry, you're in good hands with Park.

mr malt wrote:

...let me know if you need health advice on your dog or cat;).

You've done it now - we have lots of pet lovers here at Short-Media!

Flintstone

I notice where you said that there was no "switch" in the bios for the SATA controller. Just a thought as on the surface, there is none in the bios for my NF7-S either until you expand the Integrated peripherals section of the bios where it's listed under another heading to be expanded as an "Onboard PCI Device" to be either enabled or disabled. Just a thought before you flash but you've probably already looked at all possibilities.

Flint

Spinner

Like I said before, though it is obviously a good idea to try another BIOS with the latest SATA controller rom, I think it will make no difference.

Even if the SATA Bios rom is absent, the controller itself should still be detected by Windows at the very least. It sounds to me that your board has some serious issues with SATA.

Try the new BIOS though and post back.

Cheers

Park_7677

Here's a question: does your HDD show up when the SATA BIOS askes if you need to enter? Mine, list the HDDs I have hooked up to the controller. I'll try and find my camera, and snap a shot of mine boot process.

I found a guy who says he got his Hitachi working:
http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34984&highlight=sata

I guess we mainly focus on the HDD actually working and the SATA BIOS maybe rejecting it.

Trying a new BIOS and doing the simple "wanter-in-a-glass" method to see if the HDD is spinning will tell us where to go next.

mr-malt

Flinstone,
Sata is not mentioned anywhere in the bios. Only in the forms of setting boot order/devices where SCSI is to be chosen when using a sata drive; and the "Onboard Raid Boot First" option. No other mention of sata in any other category. I have expanded all the categories that are available.

Spinner,
Unfortunately, I only have the one HDD (the sata drive of this topic) in th is system, and can't even get windows loaded to see if the controller is present.

PaRK,
I loaded the bios successfully, but there was no change.
HDD seems to be running (pressing finger on label, I sense some "vibration"), though rarely accessed by mb. I think I've actually heard it spin up, however, had thought it was my cd drive. It's definitely not a grind or chirp like I'm used to, but more of a whine?)
I literally have no SATA bios, the first screen I have, is that of the Award bios and processor/memory/ide drive detection. At that point, all I can do is enter my cmos bios. There is nothing that preceeds regarding sata, period :confused2.
Though a screen shot would be nice, as I'm curious as to what I'm missing!
I'm starting to think about RMA'ing the board :sad2:

Spinner

Unplug all non-essentially IDE based devices, as well as all non-essentially PCI cards, so you only have the GPU, memory, CPU and your SATA hard drive plugged in. And also, forgive me if this has been asked before but, have you tried swapping out the SATA cable?

mr-malt

I actually had not yet tried a different sata cable, as I had only the one. I will get one this weekend and post back on Monday with any progress or lack thereof.
In the meantime, any other thoughts or suggestions will be gladly accepted!

mr-malt

Still no luck getting my sata to work. I've tried booting with no ide devices connected (as was suggested). I still can't access a sata/raid bios as I know I'm supposed to be able to. The manual even states so. My HDD is warming up, which I'll take as a sign it's working. Besides, I'm still under the impression that I should have a sata bios as long as my mobo sata switch is to "on", regardless of whether or not I have any drives connected to it. Needless to say, I'm rather discouraged. At this point I'm suspecting hardware failure, as opposed to configuration problems (have tried all bios possibilities...all 2 of them). Unless anyone has any new suggestions, I guess I'll RMA the board and post back when I've received the replacement. Hopefully that will solve my problem.
On a separate note, I still haven't received a reply from Albatron support, and am limited to email communication as I can't find a US number for service.

Spinner

Hmm, well I'm sorry you're still having problems. I can run through troubleshooting routines with you till the cows come home, but by the sound of things it probably wouldn't get us anywhere. RMA seems the best bet. However I think I'll use this opportunity to make the well versed "You get what you pay for!" speech.

I don't know much about Albatron, and that fact probably re-iterates my point. The motherboard is the back bone of any computer system, it doesn't matter how good your other components are if your motherboard ain't up to the task. Also, when you buy from a reputable manufacturer, or at least one with more local support bases, such as MSI, GIGABYTE or ABIT, you may pay more, but that money goes towards offering you a better product as well as, and more relevantly, higher quality customer support.

If it were me, I'd return the board any and which way I could, and get a refund, then go out and get a better board. $20 extra goes a long way, and I think you'd agree, it's a bargain price when you know it will go towards ensuring you get a full working product with top line support.

With regard to the problem itself, the last obvious thing I can think of trying is, to test the hard drive in another computer. But to be honest it doesn't sound like the drive. The SATA controller seems to be the Brian, er... I mean the prime suspect in this case.

Let us know how you get on, and if you decide to go with a different board, we'll be here to help you choose.

Sorry I couldn't have been of more help.

Cheers

SPINNER

mr-malt

Update.........

My new board arrived today (RMA'd old one about a week ago). Threw it in and low and behold...a sata bios option was present!! Having seen the bootup process, I can honestly say the old board was "missing" that option/screen; it didn't know the controller was there, and therefore, didn't see the drive.
So....it actually was a bad board .

I can now appreciate the rattle of the speedy Hitachi sata drive (thankfully it's a quiet rattle, but still caused me to check for anything too close to a fan, etc.)

I am thankful for all the help, because it likely would have solved the problem 9 of 10 times...unless the board in question was an Albatron, then we could say 50/50 . On that note, I still haven't heard back from tech support (Point made, Spinner). If this board had been bad, definitely would have gone with an nf7-s and cut my shipping/restocking losses. But, since she works so far, I'll make the best of it!

Spinner

mr malt wrote:

Update.........

My new board arrived today (RMA'd old one about a week ago). Threw it in and low and behold...a sata bios option was present!! Having seen the bootup process, I can honestly say the old board was "missing" that option/screen; it didn't know the controller was there, and therefore, didn't see the drive.
So....it actually was a bad board .

I can now appreciate the rattle of the speedy Hitachi sata drive (thankfully it's a quiet rattle, but still caused me to check for anything too close to a fan, etc.)

I am thankful for all the help, because it likely would have solved the problem 9 of 10 times...unless the board in question was an Albatron, then we could say 50/50 . On that note, I still haven't heard back from tech support (Point made, Spinner). If this board had been bad, definitely would have gone with an nf7-s and cut my shipping/restocking losses. But, since she works so far, I'll make the best of it!

That's great news bud. Glad you got it all working.

Park_7677

Spinner wrote:

That's great news bud. Glad you got it all working.

I echo that

Sanies

Howdy Guys
Just wondering if anyone has had a problem with hdd activity leds on this motherboard with sata drives connected?
I have a 80G seagate & a 120G seagate and use of either drive gives nothing on the activity led at all.
Thanx

Sanies

Spinner

Sanies wrote:

Howdy Guys
Just wondering if anyone has had a problem with hdd activity leds on this motherboard with sata drives connected?
I have a 80G seagate & a 120G seagate and use of either drive gives nothing on the activity led at all.
Thanx

Sanies

The problem won't be with the drives or the SATA controller. It will be no doubt either a user based config error, e.g you've plugged the L.E.D connector onto the wrong jumper, or it's a bug with the mobo.

I've had a few boards come my way which didn't like flashing the HD L.E.D. You could check it's not the case 'diode itself by connecting it up as the Power L.E.D or something, that way you'll know it's a config or mobo problem. If you can't get the L.E.D to light up in under any circumstances, then it might be the light itself.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Sanies

Cheers for the reply
I have double checked that the HDD led is plugged right.
I have also plugged the HDD led onto the power led plug and it works fine so the led is OK.
Its not a major issue just thought it may have been something with silicon image but no matter.
Thanx again

Sanies