cool search annoying opening page

Hi everyone! since a week my computer doesn't open with yahoo web page any longer but with cool search.biz and it is very annoying because i cannot replace it. i do erase it in inernet tools but as soon as i shut down internet and come back to it here it goes again. and it also doesn't let me go to certain pages, for example i wanted to download avg, hijack this and others and impossible it gives me an error page. help please!!!

Comments

  • ishiiiishiii Cold lake, AB, CA
    edited April 2004
    The real experts will be here soon with an answer.
    But I would suggest you download, install, and run Adaware and spybot search and destroy.
    If your browser will not let you search the net and download these programs, then get a friend to download them and send them to you threw AIM ICQ or MSN messenger.
    Good luck
  • edited April 2004
    thank u ishii!
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited April 2004
    Download "HjackThis!", run it, and post the log output here.
  • ishiiiishiii Cold lake, AB, CA
    edited April 2004
    np
    Let us know what happens
  • KwitkoKwitko Sheriff of Banning (Retired) By the thing near the stuff Icrontian
    edited April 2004
    Sounds like a job for CWShredder. Run that first, then run HiJackThis and post the log to see what's left over.
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    edited April 2004
    Hi everyone! since a week my computer doesn't open with yahoo web page any longer but with cool search.biz and it is very annoying because i cannot replace it. i do erase it in inernet tools but as soon as i shut down internet and come back to it here it goes again. and it also doesn't let me go to certain pages, for example i wanted to download avg, hijack this and others and impossible it gives me an error page. help please!!!

    "cool search.biz" is a front for Cool Web Search. cwshredder is a specialized Cool Web Search remover. the ohter programs can , if updated, kill parts of what it can do also, but cwshredder is dedicated to that particular task, so cross-check with that program.

    One thing some folks seem not to much realize about HijackThis, the Tools button lets you get rid of tracking cookies, URLs know to be fronts for questionable things, and is a complement (not a replacement) for the registry scanning that HijackThis can also do. This button appears in Advanced mode runs of the latest Hijackthis!
  • ishiiiishiii Cold lake, AB, CA
    edited April 2004
    See I told you that they would arrive.........................................
  • RADARADA Apple Valley, CA Member
    edited April 2004
    Carlos,

    Check out my post under the Spyware tab called "Ugly new CoolWWWSearch variant ".

    I got slammed by this one about a week ago. Lemme know if can help you get rid of it.

    RADA
  • edited May 2004
    can people help me fix this iono wat to do next


    Logfile of HijackThis v1.97.7
    Scan saved at 2:21:51 PM, on 5/5/2004
    Platform: Windows XP SP1 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
    MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 SP1 (6.00.2800.1106)

    Running processes:
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\winlogon.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
    C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccEvtMgr.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\DRIVERS\CDANTSRV.EXE
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\DVDRAMSV.exe
    C:\Program Files\Norton AntiVirus\navapsvc.exe
    C:\Program Files\Analog Devices\SoundMAX\SMAgent.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\00THotkey.exe
    C:\Program Files\Analog Devices\SoundMAX\PmProxy.exe
    C:\Program Files\ltmoh\Ltmoh.exe
    C:\Program Files\Apoint2K\Apoint.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\TFNF5.exe
    C:\Program Files\TOSHIBA\TOSHIBA Controls\TFncKy.exe
    C:\Program Files\TOSHIBA\TouchED\TouchED.Exe
    C:\Program Files\TOSHIBA\ConfigFree\NDSTray.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\TPWRTRAY.EXE
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\EZSP_PX.EXE
    C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccApp.exe
    C:\Program Files\Winamp\winampa.exe
    C:\Program Files\Java\j2re1.4.2_04\bin\jusched.exe
    C:\Program Files\Internet Optimizer\optimize.exe
    C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
    C:\Program Files\Apoint2K\Apntex.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\RAMASST.exe
    C:\Program Files\Internet Optimizer\actalert.exe
    C:\toshiba\ivp\ism\ivpsvmgr.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\wt\updater\wcmdmgr.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
    C:\Program Files\Common Files\Real\Update_OB\realsched.exe
    C:\Program Files\AIM\aim.exe
    C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\IEXPLORE.EXE
    C:\Documents and Settings\Timmeh\Desktop\HijackThis.exe
    C:\Program Files\Wizards of the Coast\Magic Online\magic113261.exe

    R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Bar = http://www.toshiba.com/search
    R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.cnn.com/
    R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Page_URL = http://www.toshiba.com
    R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Connection Wizard,Shellnext = http://www.toshiba.com/
    R3 - URLSearchHook: (no name) - _{CFBFAE00-17A6-11D0-99CB-00C04FD64497} - (no file)
    O2 - BHO: (no name) - {000006B1-19B5-414A-849F-2A3C64AE6939} - (no file)
    O2 - BHO: (no name) - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat 6.0\Reader\ActiveX\AcroIEHelper.dll
    O2 - BHO: (no name) - {71ED4FBA-4024-4bbe-91DC-9704C93F453E} - c:\progra~1\iesearchbar\iesearchbar.dll
    O2 - BHO: (no name) - {9C691A33-7DDA-4C2F-BE4C-C176083F35CF} - C:\WINDOWS\System32\bridge.dll
    O2 - BHO: NAV Helper - {BDF3E430-B101-42AD-A544-FADC6B084872} - C:\Program Files\Norton AntiVirus\NavShExt.dll
    O2 - BHO: (no name) - {F7F808F0-6F7D-442C-93E3-4A4827C2E4C8} - C:\WINDOWS\nem214.dll
    O3 - Toolbar: &Radio - {8E718888-423F-11D2-876E-00A0C9082467} - C:\WINDOWS\System32\msdxm.ocx
    O3 - Toolbar: IE Search Bar - {71ED4FBA-4024-4bbe-91DC-9704C93F453E} - c:\progra~1\iesearchbar\iesearchbar.dll
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [00THotkey] C:\WINDOWS\System32\00THotkey.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [000StTHK] 000StTHK.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PmProxy] C:\Program Files\Analog Devices\SoundMAX\PmProxy.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [LtMoh] C:\Program Files\ltmoh\Ltmoh.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Apoint] C:\Program Files\Apoint2K\Apoint.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [TFNF5] TFNF5.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [TFncKy] TFncKy.exe /Type 28
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [TouchED] C:\Program Files\TOSHIBA\TouchED\TouchED.Exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NDSTray.exe] NDSTray.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Tpwrtray] TPWRTRAY.EXE
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ezShieldProtector for Px] C:\WINDOWS\System32\EZSP_PX.EXE
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ccApp] "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccApp.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ccRegVfy] "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccRegVfy.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Pinger] c:\toshiba\ivp\ism\pinger.exe /run
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [TkBellExe] "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Real\Update_OB\realsched.exe" -osboot
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [WinampAgent] C:\Program Files\Winamp\winampa.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SunJavaUpdateSched] C:\Program Files\Java\j2re1.4.2_04\bin\jusched.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [RunDLL] rundll32.exe "C:\WINDOWS\System32\bridge.dll",Load
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Internet Optimizer] "C:\Program Files\Internet Optimizer\optimize.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [WT GameChannel] C:\Program Files\WildTangent\Apps\GameChannel.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [wcmdmgr] C:\WINDOWS\wt\updater\wcmdmgrl.exe -launch
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [kdx] C:\WINDOWS\kdx\KHost.exe
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [MSMSGS] "C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe" /background
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [AIM] C:\Program Files\AIM\aim.exe -cnetwait.odl
    O4 - Global Startup: Adobe Gamma Loader.lnk = C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Calibration\Adobe Gamma Loader.exe
    O4 - Global Startup: Microsoft Office.lnk = C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\OSA9.EXE
    O4 - Global Startup: RAMASST.lnk = C:\WINDOWS\system32\RAMASST.exe
    O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Sun Java Console (HKLM)
    O9 - Extra button: Create Mobile Favorite (HKLM)
    O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Create Mobile Favorite... (HKLM)
    O9 - Extra button: AIM (HKLM)
    O9 - Extra button: Related (HKLM)
    O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Show &Related Links (HKLM)
    O9 - Extra button: Real.com (HKLM)
    O9 - Extra button: Messenger (HKLM)
    O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Messenger (HKLM)
    O12 - Plugin for .spop: C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\Plugins\NPDocBox.dll
    O14 - IERESET.INF: START_PAGE_URL=http://www.toshiba.com
    O16 - DPF: Yahoo! Chat - http://us.chat1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/chat/applet/c381/chat.cab
    O16 - DPF: {01CA75F1-054B-4A63-9221-C6926369EC52} (HS_live Control) - http://install.homestead.com/~site/InstallFiles/SIFiles/lpxlive/HS_live.cab
    O16 - DPF: {166B1BCA-3F9C-11CF-8075-444553540000} (Shockwave ActiveX Control) - http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/director/sw.cab
    O16 - DPF: {2B323CD9-50E3-11D3-9466-00A0C9700498} (Yahoo! Audio Conferencing) - http://us.chat1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/chat/applet/v45/yacscom.cab
    O16 - DPF: {33564D57-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71} - http://download.microsoft.com/download/F/6/E/F6E491A6-77E1-4E20-9F5F-94901338C922/wmv9VCM.CAB
    O16 - DPF: {56336BCB-3D8A-11D6-A00B-0050DA18DE71} (RdxIE Class) - http://software-dl.real.com/1323dadda7e46a410418/netzip/RdxIE601.cab
    O16 - DPF: {7D1E9C49-BD6A-11D3-87A8-009027A35D73} (Yahoo! Audio UI1) - http://chat.yahoo.com/cab/yacsui.cab
    O16 - DPF: {D27CDB6E-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000} (Shockwave Flash Object) - http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab
    O16 - DPF: {F54C1137-5E34-4B95-95A5-BA56D4D8D743} (Secure Delivery) - http://www.gamespot.com/KDX22/download/kdx.cab
  • edited July 2004
    Hi
    Im having trouble with Cool Web Search... I've tried everything already... AVG 7.0, Spysweeper, Spyware remover, Spyware blaster, Spyware stormer, BHO, Spyware Search and Destroy, Ad-Aware 6.0 (updated) Bitdefender.... What should I do?

    I've downloaded Hijack This, my log:

    Logfile of HijackThis v1.98.0
    Scan saved at 20:42:26, on 8-7-2004
    Platform: Windows XP (WinNT 5.01.2600)
    MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 (6.00.2600.0000)

    Running processes:
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
    C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccSetMgr.exe
    C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccEvtMgr.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\nvsvc32.exe
    C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\CCPD-LC\symlcsvc.exe
    C:\Program Files\Common Files\Softwin\BitDefender Communicator\xcommsvr.exe
    C:\Program Files\Common Files\Softwin\BitDefender Scan Server\bdss.exe
    C:\Program Files\Softwin\BitDefender Professional Edition\vsserv.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\SOUNDMAN.EXE
    C:\Program Files\Java\j2re1.4.2_03\bin\jusched.exe
    C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccApp.exe
    C:\PROGRA~1\README~1\site upload burn.exe
    C:\Program Files\Messenger Plus! 3\MsgPlus.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\wintime.exe
    C:\Program Files\Softwin\BitDefender Professional Edition\bdswitch.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\ezSP_Px.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\rundll32.exe
    C:\Program Files\Alcatel\SpeedTouch USB\dragdiag.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\explorer.exe
    C:\Program Files\DC++\DCPlusPlus.exe
    C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgupsvc.exe
    C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgamsvr.exe
    C:\Program Files\Grisoft\AVG7\avgcc.exe
    C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger\msnmsgr.exe
    D:\Games\Harry Potter\system\hppoa.exe
    C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\IEXPLORE.EXE
    C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\IEXPLORE.EXE
    C:\HJT\HijackThis.exe

    R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Page_URL = http://213.159.117.134/legal.php
    R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://213.159.117.134/legal.php
    R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Page_URL = http://213.159.117.134/legal.php
    R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://213.159.117.134/legal.php
    R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Local Page = http://213.159.117.134/legal.php
    R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Local Page = http://213.159.117.134/legal.php
    R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Toolbar,LinksFolderName = Koppelingen
    F0 - system.ini: Shell=
    F2 - REG:system.ini: UserInit=C:\WINDOWS\system32\userinit.exe,
    O2 - BHO: DAPBHO Class - {0096CC0A-623C-4829-AD9C-19AF0DC9D8FE} - C:\Program Files\DAP\DAPIEBar.dll
    O2 - BHO: (no name) - {021BB032-80A8-4FB6-B3D5-CF27B1553B95} - C:\WINDOWS\mslagent\4b_1,0,1,0_mslagent.dll (file missing)
    O2 - BHO: AcroIEHlprObj Class - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat 6.0\Reader\ActiveX\AcroIEHelper.dll
    O2 - BHO: programglobalthe - {36DE0C72-D7B4-6B04-6131-190835F260D5} - C:\Program Files\FORDGRIM\SECOND TEST.dll (disabled by BHODemon)
    O2 - BHO: (no name) - {53707962-6F74-2D53-2644-206D7942484F} - C:\Program Files\Spybot - Search & Destroy\SDHelper.dll
    O2 - BHO: NAV Helper - {BDF3E430-B101-42AD-A544-FADC6B084872} - C:\Program Files\Norton AntiVirus\NavShExt.dll
    O3 - Toolbar: Norton AntiVirus - {42CDD1BF-3FFB-4238-8AD1-7859DF00B1D6} - C:\Program Files\Norton AntiVirus\NavShExt.dll
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SpeedTouch USB Diagnostics] "C:\Program Files\Alcatel\SpeedTouch USB\Dragdiag.exe" /icon
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SoundMan] SOUNDMAN.EXE
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvCplDaemon] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\WINDOWS\System32\NvCpl.dll,NvStartup
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Popup XP] C:\Program Files\Popup XP\PopupXp.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SunJavaUpdateSched] C:\Program Files\Java\j2re1.4.2_03\bin\jusched.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [HPDJ Taskbar Utility] C:\WINDOWS\System32\spool\drivers\w32x86\3\hpztsb05.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [QuickTime Task] "C:\Program Files\QuickTime\qttask.exe" -atboottime
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvMediaCenter] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\WINDOWS\System32\NvMcTray.dll,NvTaskbarInit
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ccApp] "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccApp.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [BDNewsAgent] C:\Program Files\Softwin\BitDefender Professional Edition\bdnagent.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [knobace] C:\PROGRA~1\README~1\site upload burn.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MessengerPlus3] "C:\Program Files\Messenger Plus! 3\MsgPlus.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Inbelverbinding Alcatel] "C:\Program Files\Alcatel\SpeedTouch USB\stdialup.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [BDSwitchAgent] C:\Program Files\Softwin\BitDefender Professional Edition\bdswitch.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ezShieldProtector for Px] C:\WINDOWS\System32\ezSP_Px.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AVG7_CC] C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgcc.exe /STARTUP
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [MessengerPlus3] "C:\Program Files\Messenger Plus! 3\MsgPlus.exe" /WinStart
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [mslagent] C:\WINDOWS\mslagent\mslagent.exe
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [Ltom] C:\Documents and Settings\Ger\Application Data\atha.exe
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [msnmsgr] "C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger\msnmsgr.exe" /background
    O8 - Extra context menu item: E&xport to Microsoft Excel - res://C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\Office10\EXCEL.EXE/3000
    O8 - Extra context menu item: E&xport to Microsoft Office Excel - res://C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\OFFICE11\EXCEL.EXE/3000
    O9 - Extra button: Research - {92780B25-18CC-41C8-B9BE-3C9C571A8263} - C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\OFFICE11\REFIEBAR.DLL
    O16 - DPF: {00B71CFB-6864-4346-A978-C0A14556272C} (Checkers Class) - http://messenger.zone.msn.com/binary/msgrchkr.cab28177.cab
    O16 - DPF: {0594AF7E-573B-40DF-8165-E47AB2EAEFE8} - http://akamai.downloadv3.com/binaries/P2EClient/EGAUTH_1015_EN_XP.cab
    O16 - DPF: {093F9CF8-0DE1-491C-95D5-5EC257BD4CA3} - http://akamai.downloadv3.com/binaries/IA/dtc32_EN_XP.cab
    O16 - DPF: {1EB17D1C-141D-4D9D-91CB-24D99215851D} - http://akamai.downloadv3.com/binaries/IA/netia32_EN_XP.cab
    O16 - DPF: {205FF73B-CA67-11D5-99DD-444553540000} (CInstall Class) - http://www.spywarestormer.com/files2/Install.cab
    O16 - DPF: {2917297F-F02B-4B9D-81DF-494B6333150B} (Minesweeper Flags Class) - http://messenger.zone.msn.com/binary/MineSweeper.cab
    O16 - DPF: {2BC66F54-93A8-11D3-BEB6-00105AA9B6AE} (Symantec AntiVirus scanner) - http://security.symantec.com/SSC/SharedContent/vc/bin/AvSniff.cab
    O16 - DPF: {469C7080-8EC8-43A6-AD97-45848113743C} - http://akamai.downloadv3.com/binaries/IA/nethv32_EN_XP.cab
    O16 - DPF: {74D05D43-3236-11D4-BDCD-00C04F9A3B61} (HouseCall Besturing) - http://a840.g.akamai.net/7/840/537/2004033001/housecall.antivirus.com/housecall/xscan53.cab
    O16 - DPF: {8E0D4DE5-3180-4024-A327-4DFAD1796A8D} (MessengerStatsClient Class) - http://messenger.zone.msn.com/binary/MessengerStatsClient.cab
    O16 - DPF: {9EB320CE-BE1D-4304-A081-4B4665414BEF} - http://www.mt-download.com/MediaTicketsInstaller.cab
    O16 - DPF: {A27AD582-5BE5-4C2D-82F0-48B24FE02040} - http://www.adshooter.com/pop_shooter/install/win2000/SYSsfitb.cab
    O16 - DPF: {B3A5878E-5B4C-4D12-9156-4D7FD8D0AF6C} (Cltbuilder Class) - http://akamai.downloadv3.com/binaries/one2one/one2oneSvcEN.cab
    O16 - DPF: {C2FCEF52-ACE9-11D3-BEBD-00105AA9B6AE} (Symantec RuFSI Registry Information Class) - http://security.symantec.com/sscv6/SharedContent/common/bin/cabsa.cab
    O16 - DPF: {F6BF0D00-0B2A-4A75-BF7B-F385591623AF} (Solitaire Showdown Class) - http://messenger.zone.msn.com/binary/SolitaireShowdown.cab28177.cab
    O17 - HKLM\System\CCS\Services\Tcpip\..\{A371DDF0-CD62-415D-9B79-A0BE2069C5AC}: NameServer = 194.134.5.5 194.134.0.97
    O20 - AppInit_DLLs: sockspy.dll
    O21 - SSODL: System - {19A4F4B1-5C3C-44C7-A939-655B98BF3F4E} - C:\WINDOWS\system32\system32.dll

    Whatever I do, my homepage changes to http://213.159.117.134/legal.php 5 seconds after I've done it... I'm desperate... please help me!
  • edited July 2004
    Ow.. I'm sorry I posted in this thread... this is my first time... And I forgot to mention I tried CWS shredder several times, but it just won't work
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