Whoa... This is getting crazy... I'm not even sure how this whole discussion of having it in another city/venue got started. This is all seeming sort of hazy and dreamlike to me right now. These are the facts:
LAN '04 was, in my opinion, a success.
The facility was not perfect, but it was pretty damned good
No facility will ever be perfect
I was assuming that I was planning LAN '05
If I plan LAN '05, it will be in Detroit, very likely at Deebe's again - black and white
See, we're talking about growing this thing, talking about corporate sponsorships and huge venues, and more than doubling the registration fee. Whoa! Reign in the horses! This thing is PRIMARILY A SOCIAL EVENT from my perspective. Incresing the size and bringing in corporate sponsors just sounds NUTS to me. WTF?!?! This was a gathering of 30 friends. Maybe part of the problem is this huge divide of ideas on what the LAN "should" be. I mean, I was operating under the assumption that next year's lan would be just a better version of this year's.. More friends, etc.
Tell you what. I'm taking a couple of weeks off from this whole ordeal. The LAN was just a week and a half ago, and we're already stressing about next year's... I just bought a house, and I'm going to start moving today. I'm getting ready for the party I'm throwing this weekend. It's a busy time for me. I'm going to breathe for a bit, have some fun, and then get back to the LAN discussion in a couple of weeks.
I dont mind the whole no outside food thing. I would have most likely have spent more then.
I guess I am out of the door prizes if DogSoldier makes the rules. I am a bit past the 5 computer limit at like 7. Wow I thought I had more, time to build another I guess.:) Hehe
We can make room at DeeBee's for more people. I mean in the back we had those two plastic racks we could probably move to put a table or two there. I feel that we could fit more people in the basement if we just moved some stuff. DeeBee's was a great place IMO.
Nice recap QCH Vote for your dates everyone.
Step two will be to narrow down the best host city that's most convenient.
I thought the members asked to look into somewhere else and that was an option. I see that for SM LAN'05 in not really open for discussion. Since Brian has said that he assumed that he would be organizing the next SM LAN and now that MediaMan has claimed that Brian is "The Man", that's it... SM LAN'05 is in Warren, MI.... Brain will host the LAN, and I'll back him up much as I can. No hard feelings. I was only trying to provide another option, that's it. Case closed.
Sit back and relax, Brian. Enjoy the "fun" of moving and we can end this discussion.
The next time we should talk is to narrow down the dates... That's it.
I don't know if I started the whole thing or not but I don't want to see this denigrate into something negative when the LAN is such a great concept. The rationale at the beginning was to explore the options of having it in a city next year that was convenient for the most people to drive the least overall to give the most people the chance to drive to the LAN. The discussions has taken on a whole new life into other areas not intended. The dialogue has been good on exploring the options for having the venue moved and it is apparent that the only viable alternative would either be in Chicago with QCH/ocomik organizing it or somewhere around the northwest usa/vancouver area with Doug organizing that event. It looks like none of the locations would be particularly central for the most amount of people so I'd say don't mess with a winning formula that is known to work. Sure, maybe it's not perfect, but it's certainly workable and there are active measures to address the problems that have arisen. The last thing we want here is people getting alienated and frustrated and turning cold to the whole idea in the first place. Let's not descend into a heated debate about it but continue to discuss the pros and cons of various elements of the LAN. Let's remain objective and not turn it into something personal. It appears, unless someone steps forth with a solid workable solution that takes into account the many many factors needed to make a LAN a success, that the best solution thus far is to leave it in Detroit. We still have plenty of time, no need to get too stressed about it this far in advance. Brian, enjoy your new house, kick back and relax, and I may see you up there for next year or whenever. The discussion is good, let's not kill this thread.
I think the possibility of changing locations was first brought up in the picture thread, and then this thread was started because there was too much OT discussion of the next LAN in the other thread.
I don't know if I made this clear enough, but I had a tremendously great time at this year's LAN. I think Brian did an excellent planning job. I am fully behind anything he decides to do with LAN '05.
I agree, Bruce spent his time and resources to ensure the event was a success.. and I for one appreciate it. I'm probably being selfish here, but I thought the suggestion about sponsership was a good one. Short-Media is a hardware/software specific site and I thought we could use that to our advantage, that is, to obtain sponserships of some kind.. normally this includes free hardware as door/tourny prizes and the like. In return we need to include their logo in our collateral, or host their banners, posters at the event.. I think that's a pretty good trade-off for some free hardware/software.
However this next animal evolves, you can be sure I'll be making my time available to produce whatever graphics (And name-tags) are neccessary to help "polish" the event.
No matter where you put the LAN, people will be alienated.
Therefore, considering Brian's willingness to do it again, his past experience this year, the cheap reg fee, the free location, it should be his project until he says otherwise.
He started it, he organized it. Wouldn't be fair to take it from his hands.
Here's what I'm going to do: I'm going to talk to George about different ways to work around the food/drink thing. I also want everybody to know that I did broach the subject with him before LAN '04. He was immediately disapproving of the idea. His thoughts were (I'm paraphrasing), "Look, my goal is to provide you guys a space for your event that will be mutually beneficial. If outside food and drinks are brought in, that significantly reduces my benefit from this event." to which I wholeheartedly agreed. The food at Deebe's, as most attendees will attest, is really good. A huge sandwich (a meal itself) is about $6.00 ($7.00 for the "I'm a pig" one). I mean, yeah, you could go down the street to ram's horn or to Burger King, but you're not gonna spend much less than $6.00 anyway, plus you have to drive over there. The drinks can get expensive, especially since they are so damned good (Peach Jet Tea, anyone?) and you find yourself ordering just one more. The pop is cheap, on par with any other food establishment ($1.25 for a large) but there are no refills. Of course there are no refills. $1.25 for an entire weekend of pop drinkage doesn't make sense. We still got to leave and eat elsewhere. I guess I just don't see the food/drink thing as being that big of a deal.
0
Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited May 2004
With the clarification that's been given, I don't think its that big of a deal either, actually.
I would agree with that. George has to get some benefit from it especially if he is bending over backwards to accomodate the event. I don't see it being that big of a deal either.
On another related subject, what sights/landmarks/tourist traps does Detroit have to offer that you'd recommend prime?
Well, I know that Clutch was really excited to see the Ford plant.. They just completely redid the Rouge plant, it's now like a "showcase auto plant" -- very eco-friendly, grass roofs, natural wetlands habitat surrounding it, extreme recycling, biological wastewater filtering, etc. I'm kinda interested to see it myself.
There's a number of "MUST TRY" food establishments. I will confidently say that Detroit is the home of one of THE BEST Chicken Wings restaurants in the country. Nobody got a chance to try it for LAN 04 but they are just incredible.
There's Greektown, which is always a big tourist destination. Royal Oak is a happening night spot. There are casinos for the over-21 crowd who are into that sort of thing. And for the extreme crowd, prostitution is legal just across the river in Windsor, Ontario (canada)
I'm not that extreme. I'm rather married. I can go to the "look but don't touch" places though. I can put away some chicken wings, especially if it's Hooters. I may endeavor on some side trips for the heck of it.
How do we work the upstairs at Deebee's? With the language (b!tch... Crap... God D@mn it...) and the mantouch'n gags? Wouldn't the upstairs crew be forced to tone down a bit. Otherwise, the normal patrons may be offended.
Could we work out a curtain across the back (or partitions) and then "Sleep upstairs" and run the server upstairs? I figure downstairs, we move all the extra chairs and storage shelves out of the way and really try to maximize the space downstairs. We'll need more fans... I think we can get 40 people downstairs without cramping too much. Overflow can go upstairs but with the understanding... WATCH you language until after 10:00 PM. Just my thoughts...
I wouldn't mind a Plant trip, but in the three day's, I will want to play and hang as much as possible.
...I'm going to talk to George about different ways to work around the food/drink thing...
As a businessman yourself, maybe he'd be candid enough to give you an idea of how he did financially for the weekend. Maybe if he was guaranteed a certain profit he would amend the rule. (As I've said before, I personally would have no problem with the policy as it stands now.)
0
Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited May 2004
With the language (b!tch... Crap... God D@mn it...)
That's it? You haven't heard me work on my computer yet...
Yeah, I agree that the space downstairs could be maximized quite a bit. I also agree that being "upstairs" would be awkward. I think theoretically we MIGHT be able to squeeze 45 people down there.
We would definitely need some ventilation at that point. Fans at both outdoor entrances (the obvious front one and the obscure back "fire exit" one.)
0
Straight_ManGeeky, in my own wayNaples, FLIcrontian
I would agree with that. George has to get some benefit from it especially if he is bending over backwards to accomodate the event. I don't see it being that big of a deal either.
On another related subject, what sights/landmarks/tourist traps does Detroit have to offer that you'd recommend prime?
KF
I actually think George should get something out of it. How about this??? Extend the lan, for one year, to four days for those who can come and stay all four-- take first day, install a hardwired wiring job for networking only in about half a day, take rest of day and do things most would not necessarily want-- other than gaming. Collect enough from all who come that year so the place could have network wires safely left in place. Then George has a place that is LAN wired for other meetings, if he were to own and provide or purchase a router that could be wired in for downstairs. He gets a free network hardwiring job, among other things-- if you bring him into planning the wiring job, do you think he would agree, Prime??? With that there, if done carefully and major lines labelled and a network wiring diagram provided, the setup for most future and for repeat LANs at Deebe's would be easier and much faster (until and IF the LAN outgrows DeeBe's). Folks could spend more time gaming and socializing.
I actually think George should get something out of it. How about this??? Extend the lan, for one year, to four days for those who can come and stay all four-- take first day, install a hardwired wiring job for networking only in about half a day, take rest of day and do things most would not necessarily want-- other than gaming. Collect enough from all who come that year so the place could have network wires safely left in place. Then George has a place that is LAN wired for other meetings, if he were to own and provide or purchase a router that could be wired in for downstairs. He gets a free network hardwiring job, among other things-- if you bring him into planning the wiring job, do you think he would agree, Prime??? With that there, if done carefully and major lines labelled and a network wiring diagram provided, the setup for most future and for repeat LANs at Deebe's would be easier and much faster (until and IF the LAN outgrows DeeBe's). Folks could spend more time gaming and socializing.
Good idea.... I would be more than willing to "pull cable" and help setup a permanent network. That would save a lot of time and effort for future LAN's.
As for the setup, I figured that each table would have three network lines. That way we can tape them under the tables to avoid all the problems that we had with cords all around. Same with power. Each table would have 2 power strips to allow all the extension cords to be run prior to people arriving.
Primesuspect, I could ask my dad the squarefootage of the basement and than we can try and figure it out that way and what the area for a basic setup of a computer and all that good stuff. :Rocker:
Comments
LAN '04 was, in my opinion, a success.
The facility was not perfect, but it was pretty damned good
No facility will ever be perfect
I was assuming that I was planning LAN '05
If I plan LAN '05, it will be in Detroit, very likely at Deebe's again - black and white
See, we're talking about growing this thing, talking about corporate sponsorships and huge venues, and more than doubling the registration fee. Whoa! Reign in the horses! This thing is PRIMARILY A SOCIAL EVENT from my perspective. Incresing the size and bringing in corporate sponsors just sounds NUTS to me. WTF?!?! This was a gathering of 30 friends. Maybe part of the problem is this huge divide of ideas on what the LAN "should" be. I mean, I was operating under the assumption that next year's lan would be just a better version of this year's.. More friends, etc.
Tell you what. I'm taking a couple of weeks off from this whole ordeal. The LAN was just a week and a half ago, and we're already stressing about next year's... I just bought a house, and I'm going to start moving today. I'm getting ready for the party I'm throwing this weekend. It's a busy time for me. I'm going to breathe for a bit, have some fun, and then get back to the LAN discussion in a couple of weeks.
Hopefully '05 will be just as fun as it was this year.
I guess I am out of the door prizes if DogSoldier makes the rules. I am a bit past the 5 computer limit at like 7. Wow I thought I had more, time to build another I guess.:) Hehe
I thought the members asked to look into somewhere else and that was an option. I see that for SM LAN'05 in not really open for discussion. Since Brian has said that he assumed that he would be organizing the next SM LAN and now that MediaMan has claimed that Brian is "The Man", that's it... SM LAN'05 is in Warren, MI.... Brain will host the LAN, and I'll back him up much as I can. No hard feelings. I was only trying to provide another option, that's it. Case closed.
Sit back and relax, Brian. Enjoy the "fun"
The next time we should talk is to narrow down the dates... That's it.
-qch
KF
I don't know if I made this clear enough, but I had a tremendously great time at this year's LAN. I think Brian did an excellent planning job. I am fully behind anything he decides to do with LAN '05.
However this next animal evolves, you can be sure I'll be making my time available to produce whatever graphics (And name-tags) are neccessary to help "polish" the event.
Take a map.. and map Cambridge to any of those states/places.. and then see how that compares to anyone else
I think I win
Therefore, considering Brian's willingness to do it again, his past experience this year, the cheap reg fee, the free location, it should be his project until he says otherwise.
He started it, he organized it. Wouldn't be fair to take it from his hands.
Here's what I'm going to do: I'm going to talk to George about different ways to work around the food/drink thing. I also want everybody to know that I did broach the subject with him before LAN '04. He was immediately disapproving of the idea. His thoughts were (I'm paraphrasing), "Look, my goal is to provide you guys a space for your event that will be mutually beneficial. If outside food and drinks are brought in, that significantly reduces my benefit from this event." to which I wholeheartedly agreed. The food at Deebe's, as most attendees will attest, is really good. A huge sandwich (a meal itself) is about $6.00 ($7.00 for the "I'm a pig" one). I mean, yeah, you could go down the street to ram's horn or to Burger King, but you're not gonna spend much less than $6.00 anyway, plus you have to drive over there. The drinks can get expensive, especially since they are so damned good (Peach Jet Tea, anyone?) and you find yourself ordering just one more. The pop is cheap, on par with any other food establishment ($1.25 for a large) but there are no refills. Of course there are no refills. $1.25 for an entire weekend of pop drinkage doesn't make sense. We still got to leave and eat elsewhere. I guess I just don't see the food/drink thing as being that big of a deal.
On another related subject, what sights/landmarks/tourist traps does Detroit have to offer that you'd recommend prime?
KF
There's a number of "MUST TRY" food establishments. I will confidently say that Detroit is the home of one of THE BEST Chicken Wings restaurants in the country. Nobody got a chance to try it for LAN 04 but they are just incredible.
There's Greektown, which is always a big tourist destination. Royal Oak is a happening night spot. There are casinos for the over-21 crowd who are into that sort of thing. And for the extreme crowd, prostitution is legal just across the river in Windsor, Ontario (canada)
KF
Could we work out a curtain across the back (or partitions) and then "Sleep upstairs" and run the server upstairs? I figure downstairs, we move all the extra chairs and storage shelves out of the way and really try to maximize the space downstairs. We'll need more fans... I think we can get 40 people downstairs without cramping too much. Overflow can go upstairs but with the understanding... WATCH you language until after 10:00 PM. Just my thoughts...
I wouldn't mind a Plant trip, but in the three day's, I will want to play and hang as much as possible.
-qch
That's it? You haven't heard me work on my computer yet...
We would definitely need some ventilation at that point. Fans at both outdoor entrances (the obvious front one and the obscure back "fire exit" one.)
I actually think George should get something out of it. How about this??? Extend the lan, for one year, to four days for those who can come and stay all four-- take first day, install a hardwired wiring job for networking only in about half a day, take rest of day and do things most would not necessarily want-- other than gaming. Collect enough from all who come that year so the place could have network wires safely left in place. Then George has a place that is LAN wired for other meetings, if he were to own and provide or purchase a router that could be wired in for downstairs. He gets a free network hardwiring job, among other things-- if you bring him into planning the wiring job, do you think he would agree, Prime??? With that there, if done carefully and major lines labelled and a network wiring diagram provided, the setup for most future and for repeat LANs at Deebe's would be easier and much faster (until and IF the LAN outgrows DeeBe's). Folks could spend more time gaming and socializing.
Good idea.... I would be more than willing to "pull cable" and help setup a permanent network. That would save a lot of time and effort for future LAN's.
As for the setup, I figured that each table would have three network lines. That way we can tape them under the tables to avoid all the problems that we had with cords all around. Same with power. Each table would have 2 power strips to allow all the extension cords to be run prior to people arriving.
-qch
I wouldnt mind seeing some sites of detroit or wherever the LAN is going to be held.
/me shudders at that one thought
Is Hooters on the list of historic places for their chicken wings? Oh well, sounds good anyway.
KF
Primesuspect, I could ask my dad the squarefootage of the basement and than we can try and figure it out that way and what the area for a basic setup of a computer and all that good stuff. :Rocker:
The largest LAN party in the US. www.lanwar.com
It's a lot bigger and a lot LESS fun than the SM LAN.