I need some help if I may, I have a dell 2.4 with 1G of Ram, dvd player, dvd burner, 1 hard drive. My question is can I use another tower with this mother board and a new power supply, I want to add some lights and another hard drive. thank you.
LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited July 2004
Yes, but with qualifications.
1) Most, of if not all Dell power supply units are proprietary - only work with Dell. Your motherboard probably also requires use of the Dell PSU. No biggy, your PSU should transfer without problem to a new case.
2) What model is your computer. We need to know so that we don't direct you to a case that won't allow for the format ('form factor') of your your motherboard. Do you happen to know whether your motherboard is form factor ATX or mini-ATX? Many cases will accept either of those formats; but we just want to make sure.
The answer is a definite maybe. You need to check out the PSU on your current system, maybe the mobo manual has the pin-out diagrams in it. In the past some Dell's have not used standard PSU configurations. The plugs were standard but not the wiring.
1) Most, of if not all Dell power supply units are proprietary - only work with Dell. Your motherboard probably also requires use of the Dell PSU. No biggy, your PSU should transfer without problem to a new case.
2) What model is your computer. We need to know so that we don't direct you to a case that won't allow for the format ('form factor') of your your motherboard. Do you happen to know whether your motherboard is form factor ATX or mini-ATX? Many cases will accept either of those formats; but we just want to make sure.
Actuially they have two 4600's. One is a tiny tiny thing and its like a 4600c or something but they also have a 4600 in a mini-tower. I have sitting here I need to unpack actually that I ordered for a customer is the only reason I know. But its also possible they both use the same motherboard Thrax.
I just got a Dimension 4600 for my parents. I'm going to have to check on the PSU compatibility myself, because stock that thing only comes with a 250W PSU!
I can definitely say that the case is a standard-sized mini-tower (I can't remember what size the mobo was, but I think it was bigger than Micro-ATX), and the motherboard will certainly transfer into a new case just fine. You just might have to bring the PSU along for the ride.
I have some cable pinout things for Dell PSU's but they didn't even keep them standard within Dell but varied it within their product line even so you really have to be very careful
DO NOT USE A STANDARD ATX POWER SUPPLY WITH THAT MOBO!!!
I just looked up your system here and that Dell system uses a 250 watt psu that uses a proprietary pinout arrangement on a standard ATX plug. If you try to use a regular non-Dell psu on it, you will fry the mobo, psu or both. That page clearly shows the pinouts on the plug, which are totally different from the regular ATX standard pinout arrangement. :banghead: :banghead: Go Dell and suffer the consequences!
However you aren't totally up the creek without a paddle. PC Power and Cooling makes psu's with Dell pinouts but they aren't cheap. There is a 360 watt version for $79 but the one that comes up with their selector for your system is the Turbo Cool 425 and costs around $150!
So if you want to transfer your system to a new case and run lights and stuff, you will need to make a decision on which way to go is best; Dell-wired PCP&C Dell-wired psu + case or standard psu+case and new mobo. BTW, I sincerely doubt that the 250 watt psu Dell installed in your system can take much more load than it's presently handling, ruling out using the present psu with lighting and extra fans and stuff.
One more thing to keep in mind: you'll probably need a new heatsink for the CPU. If you transplant the Dell into a new case, you may not be able to use the same duct that cools the CPU HS.
mudd: do you happen to know if Dell puts different PSUs in their systems if you configure them differently? The Radeon 9800 Pro and the Audigy 2 ZS were options on this system, and rather power-hungry options at that. If they left it with a 250W PSU with those options, I really don't think the system would hold up!
Google around as a couple years ago you could find adapters that you plugged a regular atx into and it swapped all the pins around and plugged into the Dell MB.
One more thing to keep in mind: you'll probably need a new heatsink for the CPU. If you transplant the Dell into a new case, you may not be able to use the same duct that cools the CPU HS.
mudd: do you happen to know if Dell puts different PSUs in their systems if you configure them differently? The Radeon 9800 Pro and the Audigy 2 ZS were options on this system, and rather power-hungry options at that. If they left it with a 250W PSU with those options, I really don't think the system would hold up!
From what I could tell looking at their tech docs at the link, it looks like the 250 watt psu is all they put in their boxes. That's not to say they didn't upgrade the psu with the high end vid cards, but it isn't shown in the docs for the Dimension 4600 with separate video cards (not the 4600 w/integrated video).
I looked up an ATX specification guide, and the only differences I can see from the Dell connector in your link is that Pin #9 is labeled "+5 VFP" on the dell and "+5 VSB" on the ATX spec, and that pin #18 is labeled "No connect" on the Dell and "-5VDC" on the ATX spec. I thought that -5V was a totally unused rail on modern motherboards.
Will the difference really fry the Dell motherboard?
OK, I asked over at Directron.com's forums about an adapter or Dell style psu and they didn't sell either, but supplied me with a Link to an adapter so you can use a regular ATX psu with your Dell.
GH, here is what I found, checking the pinouts on that page I linked to and comparing it to the pinouts on an IC7-G mobo, which is a standard ATX plug, using the same numbering as Dell does in that document.
Dell psu
ATX psu
1.--- +3.3VDC
+12VDC
2.--- +3.3VDC
+5vsb
3.--- COM
PWR_OK
4.--- +5VDC
COM
5.--- COM
+5VDC
6.--- +5VDC
COM
7.--- COM
+5VDC
8.--- POK
COM
9.--- +5VFP
+3.3VDC
10.-- +12VDC
+3.3VDC
11.-- +3.3VDC
+5VDC
12.-- -12VDC
+5VDC
13.-- COM
-5VDC
14.-- PS ON
COM
15.-- COM
COM
16.-- COM
COM
17.-- COM
PS ON
18.-- NO CONN
COM
19.-- +5VDC
-12VDC
20.-- +5VDC
+3.3VDC
As you can see, the pinouts are almost totally different and something will blow if you hook a regular psu to your Dell mobo. Attached are 2 pics of the pinouts used for this comparison:
mudd - think of this: You're looking at the motherboard pinout on one side and the PSU connector on the other side. Look at where the notch is, then flip it over...
I found a PDF for the ATX specification here, which had the following diagram, that's where I came up with my previous post.
So the mapping becomes this:
Dell psu
ATX psu
1.--- +3.3VDC
+3.3VDC
2.--- +3.3VDC
+3.3VDC
3.--- COM
COM
4.--- +5VDC
+5VDC
5.--- COM
COM
6.--- +5VDC
+5VDC
7.--- COM
COM
8.--- POK
PWR_OK
9.--- +5VFP
+5VSB
10.-- +12VDC
+12VDC
11.-- +3.3VDC
+3.3VDC
12.-- -12VDC
-12VDC
13.-- COM
COM
14.-- PS ON
PS_ON#
15.-- COM
COM
16.-- COM
COM
17.-- COM
COM
18.-- NO CONN
-5VDC
19.-- +5VDC
+5VDC
20.-- +5VDC
+5VDC
With differences at 9 (maybe, but I don't know what the different notations mean, might be the same thing) and at 18.
OK, GH, I see where I was messing up and you are right. I forgot to mirror image the connections to translate it to the psu plug compared to the mobo socket. That Dell mobo is using a regular ATX spec psu, praise the Lord!
So you guys should be good to go with a regular ATX psu if you want to upgrade it later. Did you look at the specs for that Dell psu by any chance? Pathetic, I tell you! 14 amps max on the 12v rail and 3.3/5v combined of 135 watts. Definitely a candidate for a psu upgrade.
The concern that I still have about it is this: first, do +5VFP and +5VSB mean the same thing? And second, if I plug in a normal spec PSU with a -5V rail that outputs -5V onto a 'no connection' header on the motherboard, will that cause a problem?(connection 18)
I did it with a HP/Compaq mobo with no problem, GH. It also had no connection on the -5v point(connection 18) on the connector. As far as the other, I think that is just a naming convention difference, as they are both +5v connections.
I know I'm a little late.... A bud of mine just changed out his Dell pc's Power supply due to his purchase of a new video card. He used the same case but found that dell had redone the way a standard atx ps fits in a case. So he basically used some nipers and made a little room. Since you won't be useing the dell case I don't think you will have a problem. I beleive he had a 2.2 p4 also.
Can you use any standard ATX PSU without an adapter in the Dell Dimension 4600 or not?
It does have a Pentium 4. It seems that is the big difference of whether or not you need the adapter. Also I have read that as long as you DO NOT have the AT looking socket on your Dell mobo on the left of the ATX socket where you plug in your PSU power you are good to go.
I'd hate to toast this mobo! So will a standard ATX PSU work with the Dimension 4600 or not?
Well how bout this from a post earlier in the thread:
OK, GH, I see where I was messing up and you are right. I forgot to mirror image the connections to translate it to the psu plug compared to the mobo socket. That Dell mobo is using a regular ATX spec psu, praise the Lord!
So you guys should be good to go with a regular ATX psu if you want to upgrade it later. Did you look at the specs for that Dell psu by any chance? Pathetic, I tell you! 14 amps max on the 12v rail and 3.3/5v combined of 135 watts. Definitely a candidate for a psu upgrade.
Sorry I only needed one word. You asked a simple question. Yes or No ? Wasn't real hard.
Dell uses a special MB made by Intel for them alone, and they change the pinouts on the standard ATX socket to force you to use their PSU's or find or make an adapter.
I suggest you go to eBay and get one made for that system. You really want to risk this or what?
You can usually get them on ebay for a fraction of the new price.
The Dimension 4600 model uses a standard ATX PSU. The only problem you may have is that the rear of the case may overlap the connector somewhat, easily fixed with a nibbling tool, or some filing.
Sorry I only needed one word. You asked a simple question. Yes or No ? Wasn't real hard.
Tex
Well I needed more than one because your "NO" conflicts with answers on this board and several other places. So I wanted to know your story or logic behind your answer. You gave some info on the last post but again you must be wrong.
that ebay power supply is the Dell standard 250w P/S so that wouldn't really help cause he's looking for a larger P/S to add stuff to his system.
No sir. It's just to replace. I didn't feel like going online and pay shipping plus wait for the darn thing if Best Buy sells standard ATX PSU's for 40 bucks.
I WROTE:
So what's the final verdict?
Can you use any standard ATX PSU without an adapter in the Dell Dimension 4600 or not?
It does have a Pentium 4. It seems that is the big difference of whether or not you need the adapter. Also I have read that as long as you DO NOT have the AT looking socket on your Dell mobo on the left of the ATX socket where you plug in your PSU power you are good to go.
I'd hate to toast this mobo! So will a standard ATX PSU work with the Dimension 4600 or not?
All your help is greatly appreciated!
Tony
TEX WROTE:
NO.
Tex
AND:
Sorry I only needed one word. You asked a simple question. Yes or No ? Wasn't real hard.
Dell uses a special MB made by Intel for them alone, and they change the pinouts on the standard ATX socket to force you to use their PSU's or find or make an adapter.
I suggest you go to eBay and get one made for that system. You really want to risk this or what?
You can usually get them on ebay for a fraction of the new price.
Well Tex, you WERE wrong. I had purchased a Dynex 300 watt PSU from Best Buy. It fit like a glove (no case mods at all) and the Dell Dimension 4600 PC works like a charm.
You need to be more alert. You obviously can get duped into buying a special PSU for the Dimension 4600 from eBay or PC Power & Cooling ($150 on top of shipping) and can simply use any standard ATX PSU.
It's easy. From what I have learned from going through this is:
-Dell Dimension 4600 takes standard ATX PSU's without a hitch.
-If you have a different Dell model be sure by seeing if there is a a half of an AT-type looking connector to the left of where the ATX PSU would plug into the mobo, you need the adapter.
-Also you can double check by simply taking a standard ATX PSU's connector and matching it up with the Dell's PSU's connector and if the colors match with the exception of the extra white wire, you can use the standard ATX.
Comments
1) Most, of if not all Dell power supply units are proprietary - only work with Dell. Your motherboard probably also requires use of the Dell PSU. No biggy, your PSU should transfer without problem to a new case.
2) What model is your computer. We need to know so that we don't direct you to a case that won't allow for the format ('form factor') of your your motherboard. Do you happen to know whether your motherboard is form factor ATX or mini-ATX? Many cases will accept either of those formats; but we just want to make sure.
Dimension 4600, I have no idea about the ATX
I can definitely say that the case is a standard-sized mini-tower (I can't remember what size the mobo was, but I think it was bigger than Micro-ATX), and the motherboard will certainly transfer into a new case just fine. You just might have to bring the PSU along for the ride.
I just looked up your system here and that Dell system uses a 250 watt psu that uses a proprietary pinout arrangement on a standard ATX plug. If you try to use a regular non-Dell psu on it, you will fry the mobo, psu or both. That page clearly shows the pinouts on the plug, which are totally different from the regular ATX standard pinout arrangement. :banghead: :banghead: Go Dell and suffer the consequences!
However you aren't totally up the creek without a paddle. PC Power and Cooling makes psu's with Dell pinouts but they aren't cheap. There is a 360 watt version for $79 but the one that comes up with their selector for your system is the Turbo Cool 425 and costs around $150!
So if you want to transfer your system to a new case and run lights and stuff, you will need to make a decision on which way to go is best; Dell-wired PCP&C Dell-wired psu + case or standard psu+case and new mobo. BTW, I sincerely doubt that the 250 watt psu Dell installed in your system can take much more load than it's presently handling, ruling out using the present psu with lighting and extra fans and stuff.
mudd: do you happen to know if Dell puts different PSUs in their systems if you configure them differently? The Radeon 9800 Pro and the Audigy 2 ZS were options on this system, and rather power-hungry options at that. If they left it with a 250W PSU with those options, I really don't think the system would hold up!
Tex
From what I could tell looking at their tech docs at the link, it looks like the 250 watt psu is all they put in their boxes. That's not to say they didn't upgrade the psu with the high end vid cards, but it isn't shown in the docs for the Dimension 4600 with separate video cards (not the 4600 w/integrated video).
I looked up an ATX specification guide, and the only differences I can see from the Dell connector in your link is that Pin #9 is labeled "+5 VFP" on the dell and "+5 VSB" on the ATX spec, and that pin #18 is labeled "No connect" on the Dell and "-5VDC" on the ATX spec. I thought that -5V was a totally unused rail on modern motherboards.
Will the difference really fry the Dell motherboard?
GH, here is what I found, checking the pinouts on that page I linked to and comparing it to the pinouts on an IC7-G mobo, which is a standard ATX plug, using the same numbering as Dell does in that document.
Dell psu
ATX psu
1.--- +3.3VDC
+12VDC
2.--- +3.3VDC
+5vsb
3.--- COM
PWR_OK
4.--- +5VDC
COM
5.--- COM
+5VDC
6.--- +5VDC
COM
7.--- COM
+5VDC
8.--- POK
COM
9.--- +5VFP
+3.3VDC
10.-- +12VDC
+3.3VDC
11.-- +3.3VDC
+5VDC
12.-- -12VDC
+5VDC
13.-- COM
-5VDC
14.-- PS ON
COM
15.-- COM
COM
16.-- COM
COM
17.-- COM
PS ON
18.-- NO CONN
COM
19.-- +5VDC
-12VDC
20.-- +5VDC
+3.3VDC
As you can see, the pinouts are almost totally different and something will blow if you hook a regular psu to your Dell mobo. Attached are 2 pics of the pinouts used for this comparison:
I found a PDF for the ATX specification here, which had the following diagram, that's where I came up with my previous post.
So the mapping becomes this:
Dell psu
ATX psu
1.--- +3.3VDC
+3.3VDC
2.--- +3.3VDC
+3.3VDC
3.--- COM
COM
4.--- +5VDC
+5VDC
5.--- COM
COM
6.--- +5VDC
+5VDC
7.--- COM
COM
8.--- POK
PWR_OK
9.--- +5VFP
+5VSB
10.-- +12VDC
+12VDC
11.-- +3.3VDC
+3.3VDC
12.-- -12VDC
-12VDC
13.-- COM
COM
14.-- PS ON
PS_ON#
15.-- COM
COM
16.-- COM
COM
17.-- COM
COM
18.-- NO CONN
-5VDC
19.-- +5VDC
+5VDC
20.-- +5VDC
+5VDC
With differences at 9 (maybe, but I don't know what the different notations mean, might be the same thing) and at 18.
So you guys should be good to go with a regular ATX psu if you want to upgrade it later. Did you look at the specs for that Dell psu by any chance? Pathetic, I tell you! 14 amps max on the 12v rail and 3.3/5v combined of 135 watts.
So what's the final verdict?
Can you use any standard ATX PSU without an adapter in the Dell Dimension 4600 or not?
It does have a Pentium 4. It seems that is the big difference of whether or not you need the adapter. Also I have read that as long as you DO NOT have the AT looking socket on your Dell mobo on the left of the ATX socket where you plug in your PSU power you are good to go.
I'd hate to toast this mobo! So will a standard ATX PSU work with the Dimension 4600 or not?
All your help is greatly appreciated!
Tony
Tex
I love answers but one word? No explanation?
Well how bout this from a post earlier in the thread:
Or how about this thread:
http://www.edbott.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=260
Seems like from the URL above this is a big issue which has been easily corrected by replacing it with a standard ATX PSU.
So what's your reasoning saying no?
ANYONE ELSE know for a fact that a standard ATX PSU will work with a Pentium 4 Dell Dimension 4600?
Dell uses a special MB made by Intel for them alone, and they change the pinouts on the standard ATX socket to force you to use their PSU's or find or make an adapter.
I suggest you go to eBay and get one made for that system. You really want to risk this or what?
You can usually get them on ebay for a fraction of the new price.
Here is one for 39 bucks
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42019&item=6762511523&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Tex
The Dimension 4600 model uses a standard ATX PSU. The only problem you may have is that the rear of the case may overlap the connector somewhat, easily fixed with a nibbling tool, or some filing.
Well I needed more than one because your "NO" conflicts with answers on this board and several other places. So I wanted to know your story or logic behind your answer. You gave some info on the last post but again you must be wrong.
Read this thread and the last post by profdlp:
http://www.edbott.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=260
No sir. It's just to replace. I didn't feel like going online and pay shipping plus wait for the darn thing if Best Buy sells standard ATX PSU's for 40 bucks.
I WROTE:
TEX WROTE:
AND:
Well Tex, you WERE wrong. I had purchased a Dynex 300 watt PSU from Best Buy. It fit like a glove (no case mods at all) and the Dell Dimension 4600 PC works like a charm.
You need to be more alert. You obviously can get duped into buying a special PSU for the Dimension 4600 from eBay or PC Power & Cooling ($150 on top of shipping) and can simply use any standard ATX PSU.
It's easy. From what I have learned from going through this is:
-Dell Dimension 4600 takes standard ATX PSU's without a hitch.
-If you have a different Dell model be sure by seeing if there is a a half of an AT-type looking connector to the left of where the ATX PSU would plug into the mobo, you need the adapter.
-Also you can double check by simply taking a standard ATX PSU's connector and matching it up with the Dell's PSU's connector and if the colors match with the exception of the extra white wire, you can use the standard ATX.
Figures that BS would come from a Boston Head Sox fan. With one dumbass avatar to boot.