The NF2 chipset is 5-10% faster than the KT600 but other than that the VIA chipset is fine. Just like the Nvidia chipset you need to load the VIA 4in1 chipset drivers to get full performance.
I have a KV7 running right next to me, it's an OK little board.
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Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited September 2004
Except for all the issues with Via chipsets and PCI cards (Creative ones particular). I stand by my previous statement:
Via baaaaad. With the exception of the Apollo Pro 266T, which was probably the best P3 chipset ever.
I dont use creative cards - And the problem with Creative cards lies mainly with Creative Labs. Remember when Cereative didn't Officially support Athlons at all, only Intel!
You got anything else concrete (other than personal feelings...)
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Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited September 2004
Firstly, keep in mind that other people DO use Creative cards. The chipset issue was not entirely Creative's fault. If it was, you'd hear about Intel chipset-based boards acting up too, which I never have.
Secondly, reasons I don't like Via (both the company and their chipsets):
-Most of their recent chipsets (at least the AMD ones) do not have PCI/AGP locks (KT266, 266A, 333, 400, the 600 as well I believe; dunno about their P4 chipsets)
-Other manufacturers' chipsets are faster (generally speaking)
-5 alphanumeric characters: KT266
-2 more: C3
-I've had Via's 4-in-1s hose my system multiple times; I've never had any other chipset driver do that
-My Via Envy24-based Turtle Beach Catalina won't output analog audio input over a digital output (although that may be Turtle Beachs' fault)
...and I'm sure I'll think of more reasons later on
Why don't I like the KV7? Above and beyond the Via chipset, I can summarize my problem with it in three words: piss. poor. layout.
The bottom line though is this:
The nForce2, especially with soundstorm, is a fundamentally better chipset than any other Athlon XP chipset. The NF7-S is one of the best, if not the best, Athlon XP board out there. Why on earth would you want an inferior board running an inferior chipset?
Firstly, keep in mind that other people DO use Creative cards. The chipset issue was not entirely Creative's fault. If it was, you'd hear about Intel chipset-based boards acting up too, which I never have.
Very few people use Creative cards anymore as most mobos have sound built in. Creative only tested their boards on Intel chipset mobos and never bothered to make them compatible with VIA boards. (also refer to the previous Athlon compatibility post) This is an old & dead issue.
Secondly, reasons I don't like Via (both the company and their chipsets):
-Most of their recent chipsets (at least the AMD ones) do not have PCI/AGP locks (KT266, 266A, 333, 400, the 600 as well I believe; dunno about their P4 chipsets)
Most (99%) of computer users dont OC & if you do VIA mobos will OC 10% above stock FSB anyway & many NF2 mobos wont do any better, PCI lock or no PCI lock. Many of us bought 3, 4, 5 or more NF2 mobos trying for that vaunted FSB250mhz. I built 3 Abit NF7-s V2 mobos that wouldn't do over FSB215mhz. (All bought from Newegg, used HyperX PC3500,PC4000 & Corsair XMS3500, & OCZ PC4200)
The P4 chipsets have the lock if the manufacturers wish to implement it.
-Other manufacturers' chipsets are faster (generally speaking)
Only one chipset was faster, the NF2 Athlon XP series was better than the KT400/600 series. The KT266a/333 outran the NF1. The NF3-150 was univerally panned vs the K8T800 (Abit wouldn't build one at all). It had poor HPT performance and IDE corruption issues. The K8T800 Pro & NF2-250 A64 series are neck and neck.
-I've had Via's 4-in-1s hose my system multiple times; I've never had any other chipset driver do that
Everyone's experiences are different...however...I've run VIA's entire KT series (excepting the KT880) and I've never had that happen.
I HAVE had the NF2 chipset drivers prevent me from switching from a Nvidia card to a ATI Radeon 9700. It would BSOD unless the Nvidia Gart drivers were uninstalled.
The bottom line though is this:
The nForce2, especially with soundstorm, is a fundamentally better chipset than any other Athlon XP chipset. The NF7-S is one of the best, if not the best, Athlon XP board out there. Why on earth would you want an inferior board running an inferior chipset?
Soundstorm is so important it has been removed form Nvidia's NF3/NF4/NF5 series chipsets.
If it runs, and it's priced right it'll sell. NF2 mobos are faster, although if you plop two unmarked systems VIA & NF2 in front of almost anyone they'll never know the difference.
I've grabbed several Abit & Epox KT600 mobos for ~$50. You get the latest features, multiplier and Vcore adjustments. For many people it's enough.
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Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited September 2004
I still use creative cards; boards as recent as the KX7 don't have onboard audio, and the only onboard audio I've ever been impressed by is the APU in the nForce2, so in many of today's boards, I'd still be using a sound card. Just because it's onboard doesn't mean it's any good.
As I recall, the nForce was on par with, if not faster than, the KT266A and KT333. I may be mistaken though. Their P4 chipsets weren't as fast as Intel's offerings (I believe this is still the case). Regardless of whether the PCI lock makes a difference or not, it's a matter of principle. There's a right way to design a chipset, and a wrong way to design a chipset. The right way is to use PCI locks. Via did it the wrong way. Repeatedly.
No, I'm not kidding about the C3 and the KT266. The C3 is utterly worthless. The KT266 was a POS.
I mentioned the sound card because as I said, the Turtle Beach card has a via chipset on it. Via makes audio chips as well; the one on the Turtle Beach is the same one as on the M-Audio Revolution iirc. And, like I said, I'm not sure that's Via's fault. But it wouldn't surprise me if it was.
So the fact that a long AGP card will interfere with the DIMM slots, the fact that the board is much narrower than most newer ATX boards which may cause issues if you're trying to plug in an IDE cable after installing a long AGP or PCI card, the fact that the power supply connector is in an even more idiotic position than it is on the NF7-S (something that I didn't think was possible), the fact that there's a bunch of caps around the cpu socket, etc... none of that bothers you at all, huh?
For many people, it may very well be sufficient. Many people feel that newer economy cars are sufficiently fast too. I wouldn't drive an economy car, and I wouldn't use the board. "Sufficient" doesn't cut it for me. Furthermore, why on earth would you spend $50-$75 or whatever to get a board that is merely "sufficient" when you can get a far superior one for not a great deal more? It just doesn't make sense.
The C3 is actually quite popular in lower income countries. It's a cheap, low power chip suitable for Internet appliances. But I wouldn't buy one either.
All I'm saying is that VIA chipset mobos can be quite good. The KV7 may not be a BMW/Mercedes, but it's an acceptable Chevy or Dodge.
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Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited September 2004
Some VIA chipsets and VIA-based boards are good, yes; the MSI Pro266TD-LR, Iwill DVD266U-RN, ABIT KX7-333 and ASUS A7V-333 come to mind. However, I think that SiS, Intel, AMD, nVidia and ATi provide better chipsets for the most part.
The KV7 may not be a BMW/Mercedes, but it's an acceptable Chevy or Dodge.
Very true, but when the price difference is only a few $$, why go with the slightly cheaper, but far worse (imo) board?
//edit
Oh, and anyone using a C3 should be slapped. Want a cheap, low-power CPU? Pick up a tualatin-core Celeron. They're still widely available, they're a hell of a lot faster than the C3, they cost about the same, and they run nice and cool too.
Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited September 2004
At least the layout is better than the KV7's, and it has 4 DIMM slots (wish the NF7-S did; the NF2 can do it, so I don't know why no one except Gigabyte has implemented the 4th slot). Still a Via-based board tho.
At least the layout is better than the KV7's, and it has 4 DIMM slots (wish the NF7-S did; the NF2 can do it, so I don't know why no one except Gigabyte has implemented the 4th slot). Still a Via-based board tho.
With the exception of the Floppy connector placement the Layout is essentially the same.
Abit KW7 - KT880
Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited September 2004
There is more space between the AGP slot and the DIMMs, and between the CPU socket and the power connector, northbridge, and power circuitry. There is also more space between the IDE connectors and the slots. It's the same basic layout on a much larger PCB.
Woh there fellas! interesting discussion. Sorry to interupt but I'd like to present my plans for any red flags you guys might see.
A few things first:
1] I'm not an overclocker.
2] No winXP O/S. I've designed a very unique/stripped down version of Win98SE (95 explorer + 20% ME system files upgrade, 40 MB install) for a very specific task (digital audio workstation).
3] My old system is a KT7-RAID w 1GHz Thunderbird.
I basically wanted to double my speed so it's Barton XP 3200+ and NF7-s v2.0 for me.
I gravitated to the KV7 at first because of my KT7 familiarity but after searching around these forums it seems to me that for pure support my best odds are to get what most people have. I also got turned off to the physical layout issues I'm hearing about the KV7. Not being an overclocker I just don't come across as many specific concerns as so many others around here. So I'm just going to play the odds and hopefully have a system that is just like what I have now only 2x faster which is fine for me.
Yeah when Adobe Audition, Cubase and the majority of Direct X DSP plugin companies go pure 64bit, I'll be an winXP a64 KV8 Pro Motherf**ker!
If you jump from the KT7 to the KV7 you should be able to just move the HD from one mobo to the other and just install drivers for any new devices. Update to latest VIA 4in1 beforehand though.
Comments
uh.. why is it a nasty board?
Thank you for recognizing that.
(p.s. I am sooooo going to take this one out of context
Holy Crap! I almost made a mistake. No budget woes either, at this time the price difference is less than $10.
Thanks for the heads up!
I have a KV7 running right next to me, it's an OK little board.
Via baaaaad.
You got anything else concrete (other than personal feelings...)
Secondly, reasons I don't like Via (both the company and their chipsets):
-Most of their recent chipsets (at least the AMD ones) do not have PCI/AGP locks (KT266, 266A, 333, 400, the 600 as well I believe; dunno about their P4 chipsets)
-Other manufacturers' chipsets are faster (generally speaking)
-5 alphanumeric characters: KT266
-2 more: C3
-I've had Via's 4-in-1s hose my system multiple times; I've never had any other chipset driver do that
-My Via Envy24-based Turtle Beach Catalina won't output analog audio input over a digital output (although that may be Turtle Beachs' fault)
...and I'm sure I'll think of more reasons later on
Why don't I like the KV7? Above and beyond the Via chipset, I can summarize my problem with it in three words: piss. poor. layout.
The bottom line though is this:
The nForce2, especially with soundstorm, is a fundamentally better chipset than any other Athlon XP chipset. The NF7-S is one of the best, if not the best, Athlon XP board out there. Why on earth would you want an inferior board running an inferior chipset?
Most (99%) of computer users dont OC & if you do VIA mobos will OC 10% above stock FSB anyway & many NF2 mobos wont do any better, PCI lock or no PCI lock. Many of us bought 3, 4, 5 or more NF2 mobos trying for that vaunted FSB250mhz. I built 3 Abit NF7-s V2 mobos that wouldn't do over FSB215mhz. (All bought from Newegg, used HyperX PC3500,PC4000 & Corsair XMS3500, & OCZ PC4200)
The P4 chipsets have the lock if the manufacturers wish to implement it. Only one chipset was faster, the NF2 Athlon XP series was better than the KT400/600 series. The KT266a/333 outran the NF1. The NF3-150 was univerally panned vs the K8T800 (Abit wouldn't build one at all). It had poor HPT performance and IDE corruption issues. The K8T800 Pro & NF2-250 A64 series are neck and neck. you're kidding right!
Everyone's experiences are different...however...I've run VIA's entire KT series (excepting the KT880) and I've never had that happen.
I HAVE had the NF2 chipset drivers prevent me from switching from a Nvidia card to a ATI Radeon 9700. It would BSOD unless the Nvidia Gart drivers were uninstalled. Sounds like a Turtle Beach issue or an unsupported ADC feature. Nothing to do with VIA's CPU chipset or drivers
OK - Layout is subjective - it doesn't bother me
Soundstorm is so important it has been removed form Nvidia's NF3/NF4/NF5 series chipsets.
If it runs, and it's priced right it'll sell. NF2 mobos are faster, although if you plop two unmarked systems VIA & NF2 in front of almost anyone they'll never know the difference.
I've grabbed several Abit & Epox KT600 mobos for ~$50. You get the latest features, multiplier and Vcore adjustments. For many people it's enough.
As I recall, the nForce was on par with, if not faster than, the KT266A and KT333. I may be mistaken though. Their P4 chipsets weren't as fast as Intel's offerings (I believe this is still the case). Regardless of whether the PCI lock makes a difference or not, it's a matter of principle. There's a right way to design a chipset, and a wrong way to design a chipset. The right way is to use PCI locks. Via did it the wrong way. Repeatedly.
No, I'm not kidding about the C3 and the KT266. The C3 is utterly worthless. The KT266 was a POS.
I mentioned the sound card because as I said, the Turtle Beach card has a via chipset on it. Via makes audio chips as well; the one on the Turtle Beach is the same one as on the M-Audio Revolution iirc. And, like I said, I'm not sure that's Via's fault. But it wouldn't surprise me if it was.
So the fact that a long AGP card will interfere with the DIMM slots, the fact that the board is much narrower than most newer ATX boards which may cause issues if you're trying to plug in an IDE cable after installing a long AGP or PCI card, the fact that the power supply connector is in an even more idiotic position than it is on the NF7-S (something that I didn't think was possible), the fact that there's a bunch of caps around the cpu socket, etc... none of that bothers you at all, huh?
For many people, it may very well be sufficient. Many people feel that newer economy cars are sufficiently fast too. I wouldn't drive an economy car, and I wouldn't use the board. "Sufficient" doesn't cut it for me. Furthermore, why on earth would you spend $50-$75 or whatever to get a board that is merely "sufficient" when you can get a far superior one for not a great deal more? It just doesn't make sense.
The C3 is actually quite popular in lower income countries. It's a cheap, low power chip suitable for Internet appliances. But I wouldn't buy one either.
All I'm saying is that VIA chipset mobos can be quite good. The KV7 may not be a BMW/Mercedes, but it's an acceptable Chevy or Dodge.
Very true, but when the price difference is only a few $$, why go with the slightly cheaper, but far worse (imo) board?
//edit
Oh, and anyone using a C3 should be slapped. Want a cheap, low-power CPU? Pick up a tualatin-core Celeron. They're still widely available, they're a hell of a lot faster than the C3, they cost about the same, and they run nice and cool too.
Abit KW7 - VIA KT880 Dual Channel Chipset
With the exception of the Floppy connector placement the Layout is essentially the same.
Abit KW7 - KT880
Abit KV7 - KT600
A few things first:
1] I'm not an overclocker.
2] No winXP O/S. I've designed a very unique/stripped down version of Win98SE (95 explorer + 20% ME system files upgrade, 40 MB install) for a very specific task (digital audio workstation).
3] My old system is a KT7-RAID w 1GHz Thunderbird.
I basically wanted to double my speed so it's Barton XP 3200+ and NF7-s v2.0 for me.
I gravitated to the KV7 at first because of my KT7 familiarity but after searching around these forums it seems to me that for pure support my best odds are to get what most people have. I also got turned off to the physical layout issues I'm hearing about the KV7. Not being an overclocker I just don't come across as many specific concerns as so many others around here. So I'm just going to play the odds and hopefully have a system that is just like what I have now only 2x faster which is fine for me.
Yeah when Adobe Audition, Cubase and the majority of Direct X DSP plugin companies go pure 64bit, I'll be an winXP a64 KV8 Pro Motherf**ker!
Thanks again for the info you've shared!
The NF7-S v2 is an excellent choice though.