Laptop only boots up when IT wants to!

TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
edited October 2004 in Hardware
I've got a Dell Latitude CPi-A366XT and it generally works good, but it has an annoying startup problem.

When I press the power button, the laptop's BIOS screen with the blue DELL logo and model number & BIOS version may come up on the first try, or it may take a dozen tries or more to get it to come up. No kidding!

I don't know why this is, all I know is that if I press the power button and the BIOS screen doesn't appear in 2-3 seconds, it will never appear. Press the power button to shut it off and try again.

The hard drive always starts working when the power button is pressed, whether or not the computer boots up.

The computer has 192 MB of memory and is running XP Home.

Maybe it needs a new CMOS battery? It IS a 5 year old laptop after all. I have no idea if the battery was ever replaced or not.

It did this when it had only 64 MB of memory in it, it does it both on battery power and on the AC adapter power. There doesn't seem to be any specific set of circumstances for it. It may boot up on the first try once or 3-4 times in a row, but then it'll go back to needing 10 or more attempts to turn it on.

The hard drive is an IBM 4.53 GB unit, 4200 rpm, and it's probably the original. I don't remember the date code, but it's 1999 something.

All I know is that it annoys me.

I have tried running the computer with a bootable Knoppix 3.6 CD, and the same thing applies. The computer will run it only after it gets around to starting the BIOS screen.

Aside from the boot up problem the computer works fine.

Comments

  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    The BIOS battery sounds like a feasible culprit. I've seen a dying battery affect everything from the ability to boot at all, to the duration of POST, to timekeeping, to the failure to maintain a proper IRQ table.

    It's worth a shot. You've tried everything I would've tried, specifically related to your power source. The button seems to be ok, as the system initiates its mechanical devices. The RAM doesn't affect the ability to boot..

    Give the battery a go. Be sure to take it with you when you seek a replacement.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited October 2004
    The battery may be all but impossible to replace tho. :( The battery on my sager is a CR-2032 as far as I can tell, but it has like heatshrink around it and some connector soldered to it; it's not mounted on the mobo, so it's something I need to have the factory replace. Your Dell may have something similar. :(
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    Geeky1 wrote:
    The battery may be all but impossible to replace tho. :( The battery on my sager is a CR-2032 as far as I can tell, but it has like heatshrink around it and some connector soldered to it; it's not mounted on the mobo, so it's something I need to have the factory replace. Your Dell may have something similar. :(

    Geeky, Jameco sells pre-tailed-and-heatshrink-covered CR-2032s. You can solder the connector plus tail to the old nipped-off tails if the connector that comes is wrong. the connector for the tailed cells usually fits OK. Just be careful about polarity if you jury-rig the tails, ok??? Jameco also sells the connector shells and the inserted female pins for many form factors. Pins come in min qty of ten. A REAL crimp pliers is nice, but a needlenose with very fine points can be used to crimp, or you can tack-solder the wires to connectors and then fold over the gripping parts of connector pins over your wire and dot of solder with a tiny needle-nose or very small forceps.

    TO THE THREAD topic: Second, one way to get this is to have a main laptop battery that never got deep cycled when first charged up. If computer also shuts down itself often and seemingly all by itself, try deep-cycle charging the battery. Essentially, assume batter yis real low on charge, and charge for full charge time given in manual. Then do that two more times with two hours unplugged and not used between cycles. Reason for two hours unplugged and not in use it to let battery cool between charges.

    IBM lappies are kinda unique(and I mention that because some lappies DO have redundant backup batteries in them), they have TWO backup batteries. When main cell dies and both backups are discharged, you get to replace THREE batteries. For a Dell computer, best thing is to set up a support ticket, and then let them tell you what to do. They can at least tell you if the batteries need replacing.
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    I forgot to mention that the main battery for this laptop is brand new. I got it a few weeks ago. It's a newer 4460 MaH battery, 8 cell.

    I looked on the Dell website, and it seems to be called a "reserve battery", and is comprised of 6 small cells put together. 7.2 volts, 30 MaH.

    Would that be the right battery, or is there another BIOS battery somewhere? I didn't see anything else referring to other batteries in the online manuals.

    Anyone got a part number for this battery? I'm going to call the local Radio Shack and see if they know anything about it.
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    I don't think the CMOS battery is bad. I disassembled the laptop and WITHOUT unplugging the battery, I cut into the insulation on the 2 wires to test the voltage. It read 8.2 volts.

    The main 8 cell battery was not in the computer for the test.

    The CMOS battery is a 6 cell Varta battery, part number 60906, 7.2 volt 40 mAH. Nickel Metal Hydride cells. It also says 6/V 40 H.

    It measures 2-5/8" long, 1/2" wide, and 1/4" tall. Green shrink wrap plastic / vinyl all over it.

    I called a few computer stores and they say they don't stock anything like it.

    So if the CMOS battery isn't bad, what else could be causing the hard startups?
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    Does anyone think the hard drive could be going bad? I pulled it out today while testing the CMOS battery, and it's dated November 1999. IBM Travelstar 4.86 GB (actual 4.53 GB).

    During the times I'd be restarting the computer 10+ times to get it going, I'd tap lightly on the hard drive side of the laptop. Sometimes it seemed to help, sometimes it didn't.

    It never shuts down abruptly or anything. It just doesn't want to start up easily.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    It's possible that it's failing to be detected in the POST sequence, and it could be that the entire sequence is invisible to you because of the way most laptops start up (Blank screen -> OEM logo -> Windows load).
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    It's getting worse. Today it took 15 tries to get the thing to boot up. I hate to spend cash on a hard drive if I'm not sure that's the problem. I tried unplugging the hard drive and reinstalling it. Didn't help.
  • jaredjared College Station, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    I'm w/ thrax, doesnt sound like it would be the drive

    If you want to eliminate that possibility just for grins download Powermax and test the drive. (http://www.softpedia.com/public/cat/13/8/13-8-19.shtml)
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    So if it is in the POST sequence, how can I test and/or fix the the problem?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    Remove the HDD.
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    What will that do? How's it going to boot up with no hard drive? What should happen if I pull the hard drive out and try to start the computer?
  • pcscustompcscustom Oklahoma
    edited October 2004
    It should boot w/o hard disk.. I have an apple g4 15" in the shop and It came to me with a hard disk problem.. I took the hard disk out and it booted like it should, Well to a point anyway.

    Trev
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    I tried turning it on with no hard drive. It didn't do anything. I didn't think it would.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    Here's why it might've done something.

    If the boot sequence was being interrupted by a faulty hard drive, which is entirely possible considering you can't see the post sequence ;) and the computer was still turning on, removing the hard drive would've let the system boot atleast until the point where it couldn't see a system disk.
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    So what does that mean?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    It means something else is wrong.
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