Oh, I'll add this: OS X having Unix is really great. It thoroughly beats cygwin in every respect; if you know Unix but Linux is tough or not compatible enough, OS X is a good compromise.
definitely another reason. I mean, dude, it's unix.... that's half of what we do at sarcnet industries!
0
Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
I mean seriously. Everyone knows I am a hardcore PC guy, Windows shop, all the way, etc... I just happen to really like OSX and I have to buy a Mac to use it.
I am really looking forward to CherryOS. But the claims they make seem too good to be true. On top of that they keep pushing the flippin release date back. It's really sounding fishy.
But Ill be grabbing it on release date. At least the Eval copy.
Congrats on the purchase. I find that macs are great for office type (admin) tasks. The different approach is what most people complain about. Enjoy the new experience.
Well, the experience isn't necessarily new - I've been working on macs for years. But the experience of being an owner of a mac IS a first.
I have to tell you.... Since I'm doing a business lease, I couldn't do it over the web. I had to call Apple.
I called, a PERSON ANSWERED. Like, for real, a real human being.
His name was Shane, and he was from California. We actually spoke the same language, the same dialect - it was very refreshing. He was awesome, explained the business lease to me, and then today a guy named Brian called from Apple Finance. Apple Finance just so happens to be about two miles from my office. Brian is like "Hey dude, crazy drive this morning, huh?" And we talked about the snow and weather and whatnot. He emailed the lease documents to me and then said "Normally we have people fedex them. But dude, I can just swing by and pick them up or you can just throw them in a normal postal envelope. We're just up the road".
I mean, the personal service I got was just astounding. Maybe the old adage "you get what you pay for" is true.... I have NEVER received good service like this from Dell. I did receive pretty good service from Sun Micro when I bought a server from them a few years back, but not this good.
I have been following this story with some interest b/c i use pc's at home and mac's at work, and i have to say that i am surprised with your decision to waste money on an iMac. First of all, i can't stand the design of the new iMacs, and they are underpowered. If you had to get a Mac, why not at least get a g5? You know make it worth your while.
Secondly, i understand you had to finance you new computer, but that is not justification for going the iMac route. Haven't you ever heard of a P.O.? You know Purchase Order? With you being the CEO and all, you could have easily written up a P.O. for a new pc at newegg.
Let's see....new iMacs start around $1299, while a nice a64 s939 sysytem with lcd monitor, 1 gb of ram, and a 6800gt can be built for less. Hell you could even go the SLI route for less...
Look, if you want to experiment with a Mac and osX, then by all means go right ahead. It seems that you are trying to justify your purchase by telling us you had to finance it, and therefore apple is the only choice b/c it is slightly less evil than dell...
Since you are the CEO, you should never be backed into a decision. You have the ability to creatively deal with a problem b/c you are the boss. If you just wanted a Mac to play with then just tell us...we will forgive you.
0
BlackHawkBible music connoisseurThere's no place like 127.0.0.1Icrontian
Well, the experience isn't necessarily new - I've been working on macs for years. But the experience of being an owner of a mac IS a first.
I have to tell you.... Since I'm doing a business lease, I couldn't do it over the web. I had to call Apple.
I called, a PERSON ANSWERED. Like, for real, a real human being.
His name was Shane, and he was from California. We actually spoke the same language, the same dialect - it was very refreshing. He was awesome, explained the business lease to me, and then today a guy named Brian called from Apple Finance. Apple Finance just so happens to be about two miles from my office. Brian is like "Hey dude, crazy drive this morning, huh?" And we talked about the snow and weather and whatnot. He emailed the lease documents to me and then said "Normally we have people fedex them. But dude, I can just swing by and pick them up or you can just throw them in a normal postal envelope. We're just up the road".
I mean, the personal service I got was just astounding. Maybe the old adage "you get what you pay for" is true.... I have NEVER received good service like this from Dell. I did receive pretty good service from Sun Micro when I bought a server from them a few years back, but not this good.
I'd rather talk to a half assed english speaking foreigner and be put on hold for an hour, then pay those prices for a mac.
I have been following this story with some interest b/c i use pc's at home and mac's at work, and i have to say that i am surprised with your decision to waste money on an iMac. First of all, i can't stand the design of the new iMacs, and they are underpowered. If you had to get a Mac, why not at least get a g5? You know make it worth your while.
1.8ghz G5, for quickbooks, general office work (email, web browsing) and unix tools such as SSH and SFTP. Oh, and folding. I believe a 1.8ghz PowerPC 970 will be sufficiently powerful for those tasks.
Secondly, i understand you had to finance you new computer, but that is not justification for going the iMac route. Haven't you ever heard of a P.O.? You know Purchase Order? With you being the CEO and all, you could have easily written up a P.O. for a new pc at newegg.
Let's see....new iMacs start around $1299, while a nice a64 s939 sysytem with lcd monitor, 1 gb of ram, and a 6800gt can be built for less. Hell you could even go the SLI route for less...
I do not want a gaming system. I do not need yet another PC. I have an office full of PCs. Again, you didn't read anything I said:
2) We support several mac clients. They all exist on homogenous networks (mac + windows). We have no mac in-house to experiment/learn with, especially in the realm of mac/windows internetworking. We've always played it by ear, it's time to learn this stuff for real. If I have a mac, I can do this.
You can see that I support mac clients - we support about 20 different mac computers between our various client locations, AND WE DON'T HAVE A SINGLE MAC IN HOUSE to do stuff like OS X/Active Directory integration, or even the simple stuff, like "technician is at a client location, stumped about some printing problem on customer macintosh. Call in to main office to have mac expert help him through problem", oh wait, the mac expert doesn't have a mac on hand to try to recreate the problem or follow along the prompts with the tech on the phone. Guess the expert has to drive out to client location, wasting tons of time.
Look, if you want to experiment with a Mac and osX, then by all means go right ahead. It seems that you are trying to justify your purchase by telling us you had to finance it, and therefore apple is the only choice b/c it is slightly less evil than dell...
It's not an experiment. People asked my reasons for buying a mac, I told them. Jeez! :o
Look, I read everything you said and everybody's responses....
I meant a g5 tower instread of a g5 iMac. I should have been more clear. Why anybody would want something with such a lack of upgradeability is beyond me.
Ok so newegg doesn't accept P.O.s. I would think with the money you could have saved vs. the $1300 financed, you could have come up with a better solution. Newegg accepts checks. I assume your business has some sort of banking account. Business credit card? You could have even started a new credit line specifically for this. I mean you are doing the same thing with Apple Finance essentially.
I understand that you don't want/need a gaming system for the office. I was trying to point out that you wasted money. A good office machine pc would be under $500, but
for the money you spent you could have had a elite gaming rig, or 2 office pc's.
Also, to me, it sounds like you the exact reason you want a Mac is to experiment with it. Troubleshooting customer problems is often described as experimentation. I don't really want to get into a debate on symantics though.
You started the thread and said flame away, and IMO, it seems like you are trying to justify your iMac purchase. It must be hard to waste money on a Mac, so you start this thread knowing that Mac-haters will say you are stupid, and then you can prove them wrong by qualifying your original statement a little bit at a time and, in the process, make yourself (and your accountant) feel better.
Nice Prime, good to hear you found some customer service....
Why does everyone care that its a mac though. Hes using it for spreadsheeting, websurfing, and managing his business contacts, you don't need some monster powerhouse for that!! It does the job, it does the job well, and he'll be able to do everything he needs on it. Upgradability isn't a concern because of the use intended for the computer. This is business people. It isn't a waste of money if-
1) It improves his business speed instantly
2) Its probably more reliable than his old POS
3) He didn't waste valuable business or family time comparing prices, buying things, ordering them, installing everything, making the SMJ fix it, yadda yadda yadda.....
and.......
4) The cardinal rule of modern business... ITS THE CHEAPEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE OPTION FOR HIM. He not only gets a better computer, but he now has a mac to allow him to give better customer service to his weirdo mac clients
Look, I read everything you said and everybody's responses....
I meant a g5 tower instread of a g5 iMac.
Why would I want to upgrade it? Why would I want a huge steel tower under my desk? I want to reduce my clutter, not take up even more space. What will I need to upgrade? Ram? I can do that. Hard Drive? I can do that... What else would I need to upgrade for my email and SSH workstation?
This thing is small, flat, and clean. That's what I wanted.
Ok so newegg doesn't accept P.O.s. I would think with the money you could have saved vs. the $1300 financed, you could have come up with a better solution. Newegg accepts checks. I assume your business has some sort of banking account. Business credit card? You could have even started a new credit line specifically for this. I mean you are doing the same thing with Apple Finance essentially.
You keep saying that you read everything, but I'm going to have to quote myself again in order to show you that you didn't read everything:
If I had the money in my checking account to write a $500+ check for, I would have done that. Fact is, december had 3 pay periods instead of two, which just kills me for monthly cash flow. The couple of weeks after a 3-pay month are about bone dry. Since you seem to be fluent in business terms, I will tell you without any embarassment that we do not have sufficient operating capital at this particular time to purchase any assets. Then, as my operating capital gets replenished by receivables, a pay period will once again be on me. It will be a few months before operating capital is back to a comfort zone. Therefore, leasing is a sound business decision for me. As I said before, if I'm going to lease, I may as well lease something that I have been meaning to buy for some time now anyway.
I understand that you don't want/need a gaming system for the office. I was trying to point out that you wasted money. A good office machine pc would be under $500, but
for the money you spent you could have had a elite gaming rig, or 2 office pc's.
None of which I need. How would having an elite gaming rig or 2 office pc's help my business? I made a purchase decision based on multiple uses for this particular asset. It will serve more than one purpose, whereas a gaming rig or two extra PCs would serve no extra purpose.
Also, to me, it sounds like you the exact reason you want a Mac is to experiment with it. Troubleshooting customer problems is often described as experimentation. I don't really want to get into a debate on symantics though.
You started the thread and said flame away, and IMO, it seems like you are trying to justify your iMac purchase. It must be hard to waste money on a Mac, so you start this thread knowing that Mac-haters will say you are stupid, and then you can prove them wrong by qualifying your original statement a little bit at a time and, in the process, make yourself (and your accountant) feel better.
Sweet! I'm having fun, are you? This is WAY easier than debating with my wife, and I'm enjoying it a LOT more
I said "flame away" mostly in jest, because I knew I would have the obligatory "omg macs suck" comments.
...You can see that I support mac clients - we support about 20 different mac computers between our various client locations, AND WE DON'T HAVE A SINGLE MAC IN HOUSE to do stuff like OS X/Active Directory integration, or even the simple stuff, like "technician is at a client location, stumped about some printing problem on customer macintosh. Call in to main office to have mac expert help him through problem", oh wait, the mac expert doesn't have a mac on hand to try to recreate the problem or follow along the prompts with the tech on the phone. Guess the expert has to drive out to client location, wasting tons of time....
That's a valid point. I worked for two computer repair companies that didn't have a Mac onsite. This didn't stop them from sending me out on field service calls when a Mac user called for service. It was a real learn-as-you-go experience (while the customer was footing the bill). I am proud to say that I do have a 100% success rate with the few of them I have had the opportunity to work on. I also had a few battles with bosses who didn't see the fairness in the fact that I adjusted my billed-hours downward as a result of having to learn as I went along.
As far as Newegg, did you know that they offer their own credit card now? It has taken all the willpower I can muster to resist the urge to get one. (I'd max-out any line of credit they gave me in a week )
prime, I'm not a mind reader, but I think the bottom-line is that you're getting a Mac because you want one. Why don't you just say that, and tell anyone who doesn't like it to pound sand? I'd still love you in the morning.
0
Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
Ok now seriously... Prime, are you gonna post pics of this when you get it? take the back of and stuff? I really really really wanna see teh inside of this thing in detail.
1) Reboot at least once a day or it isn't a MAC.
2) Update the OS but usually by the final update...things go wonky forcing you to want to consider buying a new MAC.
3) A MAC upgrade is simple. Buy a new MAC. They don't upgrade well...hardware that worked well on OS 9.x...is worth poop on OSX.
4) MACs don't talk well to the rest of the planet for office document. The "hey look at my excel sheet." created on a MAC...may not do too well when sent to the windows world.
5) MACs are the graphic and video professionals "preferred" platform. Doesn't mean that they are better.
6) MACs are better for After Effects and Final Cut Pro.
7) After Effects is faster on Windows machines.
8) Windows machines are faster period.
9) MACs are more expensive.
10) Use a MAC...don't tinker with the damn thing. Buy it fully configured and equipped for the task you want it to do. After that...don't mess with it. Turn it on...turn it off.
Most of that list was indeed true until the G5s and 10.3 ... 10.3 is actually as stable as XP. Most of my customers reboot once a month, when I make them. Just like my XP customers.
Upgrades are fine since the G4s.... PCI, AGP, what else do you need? You can upgrade every component of a tower mac, except the "platform" (i.e. you can't really swap the motherboard), but you can get processor upgrades.
as for 4) on your list -- that's what we're working on. The technology and tools are there. Nobody knows how to do it right, that's the problem I intend to fix (at least in the metro detroit area )
Windows machines are indeed faster. I should properly say, x86 hardware is generally faster than "equivalent" mac hardware (comparing apples to oranges here).
9) very, very true. You pay for image, marketing, industrial design, chassis, and an actual american/english speaking support staff.
10) not at all true in my experience I've supported hundreds of macs in my career. I used to be in charge of all the macs at a region's worth of kinko's stores.... Believe me, I know how crappy they were. They are a LOT LOT better now.. Kinda like WinXP is better than Win95....
0
Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
Ok now seriously... Prime, are you gonna post pics of this when you get it? take the back of and stuff? I really really really wanna see teh inside of this thing in detail.
with plans to eventually upgrade it to a 1-1.7GHz G4 or dual G4, 1-1.5GB of RAM, a Radeon 9800 Pro, 9000 Pro, 8500, GeForce 4 or GeForce 3, a DVD or CD burner (possibly both) and some fast, big (7200rpm, 80-120GB) hard drives? Oh, and I wanna overclock it if I can.
Comments
definitely another reason. I mean, dude, it's unix.... that's half of what we do at sarcnet industries!
I am really looking forward to CherryOS. But the claims they make seem too good to be true. On top of that they keep pushing the flippin release date back. It's really sounding fishy.
But Ill be grabbing it on release date. At least the Eval copy.
Me too!
I have to tell you.... Since I'm doing a business lease, I couldn't do it over the web. I had to call Apple.
I called, a PERSON ANSWERED. Like, for real, a real human being.
His name was Shane, and he was from California. We actually spoke the same language, the same dialect - it was very refreshing. He was awesome, explained the business lease to me, and then today a guy named Brian called from Apple Finance. Apple Finance just so happens to be about two miles from my office. Brian is like "Hey dude, crazy drive this morning, huh?" And we talked about the snow and weather and whatnot. He emailed the lease documents to me and then said "Normally we have people fedex them. But dude, I can just swing by and pick them up or you can just throw them in a normal postal envelope. We're just up the road".
I mean, the personal service I got was just astounding. Maybe the old adage "you get what you pay for" is true.... I have NEVER received good service like this from Dell. I did receive pretty good service from Sun Micro when I bought a server from them a few years back, but not this good.
Secondly, i understand you had to finance you new computer, but that is not justification for going the iMac route. Haven't you ever heard of a P.O.? You know Purchase Order? With you being the CEO and all, you could have easily written up a P.O. for a new pc at newegg.
Let's see....new iMacs start around $1299, while a nice a64 s939 sysytem with lcd monitor, 1 gb of ram, and a 6800gt can be built for less. Hell you could even go the SLI route for less...
Look, if you want to experiment with a Mac and osX, then by all means go right ahead. It seems that you are trying to justify your purchase by telling us you had to finance it, and therefore apple is the only choice b/c it is slightly less evil than dell...
Since you are the CEO, you should never be backed into a decision. You have the ability to creatively deal with a problem b/c you are the boss. If you just wanted a Mac to play with then just tell us...we will forgive you.
Maybe you didn't follow it closely enough.....
1.8ghz G5, for quickbooks, general office work (email, web browsing) and unix tools such as SSH and SFTP. Oh, and folding. I believe a 1.8ghz PowerPC 970 will be sufficiently powerful for those tasks.
Dude, I've been doing this for years. I know how to buy equipment. Thanks for the advice though.
You can see that I support mac clients - we support about 20 different mac computers between our various client locations, AND WE DON'T HAVE A SINGLE MAC IN HOUSE to do stuff like OS X/Active Directory integration, or even the simple stuff, like "technician is at a client location, stumped about some printing problem on customer macintosh. Call in to main office to have mac expert help him through problem", oh wait, the mac expert doesn't have a mac on hand to try to recreate the problem or follow along the prompts with the tech on the phone. Guess the expert has to drive out to client location, wasting tons of time.
It's not an experiment. People asked my reasons for buying a mac, I told them. Jeez! :o
Excellent advice.
I meant a g5 tower instread of a g5 iMac. I should have been more clear. Why anybody would want something with such a lack of upgradeability is beyond me.
Ok so newegg doesn't accept P.O.s. I would think with the money you could have saved vs. the $1300 financed, you could have come up with a better solution. Newegg accepts checks. I assume your business has some sort of banking account. Business credit card? You could have even started a new credit line specifically for this. I mean you are doing the same thing with Apple Finance essentially.
I understand that you don't want/need a gaming system for the office. I was trying to point out that you wasted money. A good office machine pc would be under $500, but
for the money you spent you could have had a elite gaming rig, or 2 office pc's.
Also, to me, it sounds like you the exact reason you want a Mac is to experiment with it. Troubleshooting customer problems is often described as experimentation. I don't really want to get into a debate on symantics though.
You started the thread and said flame away, and IMO, it seems like you are trying to justify your iMac purchase. It must be hard to waste money on a Mac, so you start this thread knowing that Mac-haters will say you are stupid, and then you can prove them wrong by qualifying your original statement a little bit at a time and, in the process, make yourself (and your accountant) feel better.
Why does everyone care that its a mac though. Hes using it for spreadsheeting, websurfing, and managing his business contacts, you don't need some monster powerhouse for that!! It does the job, it does the job well, and he'll be able to do everything he needs on it. Upgradability isn't a concern because of the use intended for the computer. This is business people. It isn't a waste of money if-
1) It improves his business speed instantly
2) Its probably more reliable than his old POS
3) He didn't waste valuable business or family time comparing prices, buying things, ordering them, installing everything, making the SMJ fix it, yadda yadda yadda.....
and.......
4) The cardinal rule of modern business... ITS THE CHEAPEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE OPTION FOR HIM. He not only gets a better computer, but he now has a mac to allow him to give better customer service to his weirdo mac clients
Why would I want to upgrade it? Why would I want a huge steel tower under my desk? I want to reduce my clutter, not take up even more space. What will I need to upgrade? Ram? I can do that. Hard Drive? I can do that... What else would I need to upgrade for my email and SSH workstation?
This thing is small, flat, and clean. That's what I wanted.
You keep saying that you read everything, but I'm going to have to quote myself again in order to show you that you didn't read everything:
If I had the money in my checking account to write a $500+ check for, I would have done that. Fact is, december had 3 pay periods instead of two, which just kills me for monthly cash flow. The couple of weeks after a 3-pay month are about bone dry. Since you seem to be fluent in business terms, I will tell you without any embarassment that we do not have sufficient operating capital at this particular time to purchase any assets. Then, as my operating capital gets replenished by receivables, a pay period will once again be on me. It will be a few months before operating capital is back to a comfort zone. Therefore, leasing is a sound business decision for me. As I said before, if I'm going to lease, I may as well lease something that I have been meaning to buy for some time now anyway.
None of which I need. How would having an elite gaming rig or 2 office pc's help my business? I made a purchase decision based on multiple uses for this particular asset. It will serve more than one purpose, whereas a gaming rig or two extra PCs would serve no extra purpose.
Ok, sure. You're right. *shrug*
Sweet! I'm having fun, are you? This is WAY easier than debating with my wife, and I'm enjoying it a LOT more
I said "flame away" mostly in jest, because I knew I would have the obligatory "omg macs suck" comments.
As far as Newegg, did you know that they offer their own credit card now? It has taken all the willpower I can muster to resist the urge to get one. (I'd max-out any line of credit they gave me in a week
prime, I'm not a mind reader, but I think the bottom-line is that you're getting a Mac because you want one. Why don't you just say that, and tell anyone who doesn't like it to pound sand? I'd still love you in the morning.
*gasps* WHAT WOULD SNUFFIE SAY!?
Ok now seriously... Prime, are you gonna post pics of this when you get it? take the back of and stuff? I really really really wanna see teh inside of this thing in detail.
1) Reboot at least once a day or it isn't a MAC.
2) Update the OS but usually by the final update...things go wonky forcing you to want to consider buying a new MAC.
3) A MAC upgrade is simple. Buy a new MAC. They don't upgrade well...hardware that worked well on OS 9.x...is worth poop on OSX.
4) MACs don't talk well to the rest of the planet for office document. The "hey look at my excel sheet." created on a MAC...may not do too well when sent to the windows world.
5) MACs are the graphic and video professionals "preferred" platform. Doesn't mean that they are better.
6) MACs are better for After Effects and Final Cut Pro.
7) After Effects is faster on Windows machines.
8) Windows machines are faster period.
9) MACs are more expensive.
10) Use a MAC...don't tinker with the damn thing. Buy it fully configured and equipped for the task you want it to do. After that...don't mess with it. Turn it on...turn it off.
Upgrades are fine since the G4s.... PCI, AGP, what else do you need? You can upgrade every component of a tower mac, except the "platform" (i.e. you can't really swap the motherboard), but you can get processor upgrades.
as for 4) on your list -- that's what we're working on. The technology and tools are there. Nobody knows how to do it right, that's the problem I intend to fix (at least in the metro detroit area
Windows machines are indeed faster. I should properly say, x86 hardware is generally faster than "equivalent" mac hardware (comparing apples to oranges here).
9) very, very true. You pay for image, marketing, industrial design, chassis, and an actual american/english speaking support staff.
10) not at all true in my experience
Oh, and Mediaman... so what would you say if I told you that I bought this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5153534621
with plans to eventually upgrade it to a 1-1.7GHz G4 or dual G4, 1-1.5GB of RAM, a Radeon 9800 Pro, 9000 Pro, 8500, GeForce 4 or GeForce 3, a DVD or CD burner (possibly both) and some fast, big (7200rpm, 80-120GB) hard drives? Oh, and I wanna overclock it if I can.
O M G Macs SUCK
Have never used one, have no idea. Just trying to participate a little