Cooling options for notebook

Jujitsu-JunkieJujitsu-Junkie
edited March 2005 in Hardware
I recently obtained a Toshiba Satellite A70-S249 (3.06 GHZ P4 w/HT). It does a great job overall, but I have encountered what I believe is a heat issue. The unit will shut down when running higher-end games and occasionally will do so when burning a cd. I've had the notebook for about 3 months and it has really become much more frequent of late. So, my questions are twofold, I guess:

1) Does this sound like an overheating issue? (the bottom of the notebook is really quite hot, and when it shuts off it does so without any notice whatsoever)

2) What would you suggest I do to help aid its cooling? (I'm not a really savvy individual [yet], so I'm a little leery of doing any complex hardware work that might void the warranty)

I really want to start folding, but I hear it can really cause a unit to heat up and I don't want to do any damage.

Any help anyone can offer would be very greatly appreciated. :)

Comments

  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited January 2005
    Read this excellent article:
    http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=258

    That might cure your problems.
  • kanezfankanezfan sunny south florida Icrontian
    edited January 2005
    You can buy these notebook coolers, they basically sit under the notebook and blow air up on the underside of the notebook. You might also check your RAM with memtest86, sounds like bad RAM might be to blame too.

    One thing about cooling, are you running your laptop on your lap, on your bed, or anything like that, or do you use it on your desk? It will get much hotter on you or carpet, or a bed than it will on a desk. Also make sure that the exhaust vent is clear, that there's nothing in front to stop the air from blowing out. Make sure the exhaust fan is spinning too, sometimes they die and then heat just sits in the computer.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited January 2005
    Define "recently", and as Kanezfan asked, are you using this on a desk or what? And have you got mobilemeter installed?
  • Jujitsu-JunkieJujitsu-Junkie
    edited January 2005
    The overheating has really only become a problem in the last week to two weeks. I've got it sitting flat on a wooden desk, so I'm not sure if that's part of the problem. I haven't installed mobilemeter (up until just now, I hadn't heard of it, I'm afraid), but I'll google it and install it. I'll try the steps listed in the article as well. Thanks for the great information. :thumbsup:
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited January 2005
    how old is the computer?
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited January 2005
    mobilemeter:
    http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Oakland/8259/release/0310/mm0310.zip

    may or may not work on toshiba laptops. if gives you a cpu temp., post what it is here.
  • Jujitsu-JunkieJujitsu-Junkie
    edited January 2005
    The computer is brand new (well, 3 months old), purchased direct from the manufacturer. I installed mobilemeter (thanks for that) and while running internet explorer, the HDD temp (hopefully that's the number we're looking for, as it's the only one that indicates temperature) is reading a steady 35.0 degrees C. Is this a good number?

    I have tried running memtest 86, but I can't seem to get my computer to boot from the CD. I went into the BIOS and moved the cd/dvd drive into the first position on the boot list, but it still went straight into windows (XP).

    Thanks again for putting up with a noob :) You guys rock!
  • mcwcmcwc Vancouver, BC Member
    edited January 2005
    What we are looking for is the CPU temperature. Unfortunately, Toshiba doesn't give a CPU temperture reading thus MobileMeter only reports a HDD temp.

    How dusty is the location that you live in?

    For me, I live three houses from a major street where there's usually quite a number of commerical diesel vechiles on it. It gets quite dusty and the heatsink in my Toshiba A30 gets half clogged with dust in about three or four months.

    Once the heatsink in the A30 is clean, the notebook runs cool and the fans run at low speeds and are not audible. In a month or two after cleaning, can feel my notebook run a lot warmer and the fans are on constantly and is audible.
  • Jujitsu-JunkieJujitsu-Junkie
    edited January 2005
    You know, there must be a problem with the number I posted. I noticed that after a fairly lengthy period of time running internet explorer, the temperature reading had remained at a constant 35.0 degrees C.

    I thought this was kind of strange, so I thought I'd try a little experiment. I felt around the cooling vents to get an idea of how much heat the computer was emitting and then I popped a dvd in to see if there would be a change in the actual heat emitted and/or the heat measured by mobilemeter. The computer did definitely begin to generate more heat, but the mobilemeter reading actually dropped to 34.0 C. After 6 minutes and 11 seconds of playing the DVD with WinDVD, the computer abruptly turned itself off.

    I'm not sure if this means that the program does not run correctly on my system? More likely, I am probably not quite clear on exactly what heat mobilemeter is measuring (what's HDD anyway? Hard Disk Drive?) :scratch: Sorry to seem so ignorant, but a good bit of this is outside my realm of experience. Thanks again!
  • leishi85leishi85 Grand Rapids, MI Icrontian
    edited January 2005
    yes the HDD is the hard drive, it makes sense, when u are using IE, it does not put much stress on the hdd, thus no temp change, or little temp change. when are u playing a DVD, it's the DVD rom that's being stress, and the CPU, so that's why there is no or little temp change on the HDD.

    and about your laptop shutting down or restarting, it's because when are u playing DVD, it's putting stress on your CPU, and your CPU is producing more heat, that's why your computer restarted, because your CPU is being overheated, probably due to reason other guys stated above. Dust, and the heatsink being clogged.
  • Jujitsu-JunkieJujitsu-Junkie
    edited January 2005
    Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. I'll try cleaning the heatsink. Wish me luck!
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited January 2005
    you'll need some thermal compound on hand to replace the old stuff...
  • Jujitsu-JunkieJujitsu-Junkie
    edited January 2005
    Do you recommend that arctic silver I keep seeing in the forums, or would there be another product that's superior? Also, any idea on whether or not this type of maintenance generally voids manufacturers warranties? Thanks!
  • TheBaronTheBaron Austin, TX
    edited January 2005
    arctic silver 5 is what you want
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited January 2005
    Honestly, there isn't much of a performance difference between Arctic Silver and anything else. HOWEVER, since it's in a notebook, every little advantage helps. Furthermore, the one distinct advantage that Arctic Silver seems to have is that it retains its "grease" consistency for much longer than the cheap silicon-based stuff, which is a good thing.

    Have you got a digital camera by any chance, and what model of Toshiba notebook are we talking about here?
  • Jujitsu-JunkieJujitsu-Junkie
    edited January 2005
    Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera as of yet (though I hope to get one in the near future). The notebook is an A70-S249. I noticed in the cleaning article posted by mcwc that the model shown is a Toshiba A30 and apparently there were difficulties with removing the heatsink. I wonder if this particular model will give me similar trouble. By the way, I've recently tried elevating the rear of the notebook and it seems to shut off far less. I know the fans are located on the bottom of the machine and I wonder if this could have something to do with it.
  • mcwcmcwc Vancouver, BC Member
    edited January 2005
    Another member, tcith, also has a Toshiba A30 notebook and he didn't have the problem I had. I think I just got unlucky. I doubt you'll have the same problem that I had.
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited January 2005
    Jujitsu Junkie wrote:
    Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera as of yet (though I hope to get one in the near future). The notebook is an A70-S249. I noticed in the cleaning article posted by mcwc that the model shown is a Toshiba A30 and apparently there were difficulties with removing the heatsink. I wonder if this particular model will give me similar trouble. By the way, I've recently tried elevating the rear of the notebook and it seems to shut off far less. I know the fans are located on the bottom of the machine and I wonder if this could have something to do with it.

    Yes, almost certainly it does have something to do with it. Your heatsink is probably clogged with dust. At the very least, you should blow out all the fan ports on the notebook with compressed air. But follow the steps in mcwc's article if you can.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited January 2005
    Lemme see if I can find a service manual for that thing, or at least pics of the bottom. The best way to do this is to pull the heatsink and clean it...
  • dragonV8dragonV8 not here much New
    edited January 2005
    We run 2 notebooks folding 24/7. Both are set up with a notebook cooler as mentioned before. Both run cool as.

    Lifting it up by a small amount was a good move, gives it a chance to get more cool air. If you have a small electric fan laying around, try using that to blow some fresh air towards your notebook.

    All the little bits help.
  • mcwcmcwc Vancouver, BC Member
    edited January 2005
    Geeky1 wrote:
    Lemme see if I can find a service manual for that thing, or at least pics of the bottom. The best way to do this is to pull the heatsink and clean it...
    Good luck in finding a service manual. I couldn't find one for my A30. If you manage to find Toshiba service manuals, link me to the A30 service manual.

    Geeky, at the bottom is a pic of the A70 bottom from newegg.
    Here's the link to a similar A75. Same looking bottom. Doesn't look like there is an access panel to the heatsink.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited January 2005
    *sighs* God I hate Toshiba notebooks.
  • Jujitsu-JunkieJujitsu-Junkie
    edited January 2005
    Yeah, I'm really starting to hate Toshiba notebooks as well. Since there's no heatsink access panel, I'm thinking I'm just gonna go ahead with a notebook cooler (I have absolutely no desire to take this thing apart, as I'm certain I'll never get it back together :confused: ) and do any minor maintenance that might be recommended (anything other than blowing out the air vents and fans with canned air that you would recommend?). That is, unless there's a way to get to the heatsink without dismantling the machine. What do you think?
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited January 2005
    Just using a cooling pad won't help much. It's shutting off because it's overheating, and overheating is as bad for a computer as it is for a car. It's not a good thing at all. Since you can't get to the heatsink, you need to blow and vacuum it out with canned air and a vacuum with a hose (if you have one).

    To clean the heatsink, use canned air to blow air into the heatsink from both the back of the notebook where the hot air comes out and the bottom where the fans pull cool air in.

    //IMPORTANT DIRECTIONS- BLOWING THE HEATSINK OUT WITHOUT READING THIS MAY KILL YOUR NOTEBOOK//

    Fans have a maximum speed that they're designed for; there are bearings and stuff inside fans that allow them to spin. Those bearings are rated to a certain speed. Vacuums and canned air cans produce airflow at much higher velocities than what the fans can produce. So if you blow the fans with canned air or suck on them with a vacuum, you will spin the fans up far beyond their rated maximum speed, cook the bearings, and kill the fan.

    To prevent this, you MUST stop the fan from spinning. Firstly, you need to shut the notebook off. Then you need to take a toothpick, or an unbent paper clip or something, and stick it down into the fan grill so the fan blades will hit it so the fan can't spin freely. Do this with every fan on the bottom and/or back of the notebook. Now you can blow air into it and vacuum it out and not have to worry about killing the fans.

    You want to blow air in from the back of the notebook where the air is exhausted first, then vacuum it out from the bottom. Then you can reverse the process, but it's important to blow INTO the exhaust vents and suck OUT of the intake vents because that will keep the dust from getting lodged further down into the heatsink's fins.

    Clean it like that once every 2 weeks. And invest in a notebook cooling pad- but you MUST clean the notebook too- just the pad alone won't do you a damn bit of good.
  • Jujitsu-JunkieJujitsu-Junkie
    edited January 2005
    Wow, thanks for the primer. I probably would have destroyed my notebook. You rock! :thumbsup:

    Edit: Followed Geeky1's instructions to the letter and now everything seems to be working great. The fans used to engage at startup and never ceased to run at full bore. They haven't even started up yet, and I've been surfing, word processing, etc. for almost a half an hour now! :rockon:

    I haven't checked the temperature radiating from the processor area, but it feels much cooler to the touch now. I'm pretty sure you guys solved it! :respect:

    On a side note, I waited an hour or two before starting it up, as some condensation had built up from the canned air around the fans and the vents. Is this necessary or recommended? (sorry for the emoticon overload, I'm just totally stoked!)
  • JChretienJChretien Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 2005
    haha yeah i cleaned out mcwc's brother's Tt Volcano12.. it was clogged up with this black oily dust stuff.. ugh >.< dust = bad. i'll have to clean out my aeroflow soon...
  • mcwcmcwc Vancouver, BC Member
    edited February 2005
    Heh, that was three months worth of dust build up. There was enough dust, about 1-2mm thick, to raise the full load temp about 2-3C. That's what I get for living near a busy street with semi and diesel buses running up and down it.
  • ProsenwProsenw
    edited March 2005
    I have an 11 month old TOSHIBA laptop
    It lost the hard drive and took all my son's university essays with it
    Granted, he should have backed up
    How many 19 year olds do?
    It is , after all a $ 2500 machine, 11 months old
    WARRANTY?
    Are you kidding?
    The drive is backordered ...has been for 2 weeks
    I had to get my kid back in the business school , I bought a drive from a jobber(he had no trouble getting one)
    It cost me over $ 500 for something that should have been warranty
    The drive has been out of stock for 2 weeks!!Imagine : being without a university laptop for 2 weeks!
    Then, I found out why it is on backorder
    The Satellite M30 Toshiba is on a long list they publish themselves that has "issues" with the very thing
    They knew all along! What incredible low forms of life!
    This corporation is just pure evil!
    Beware Toshiba laptops!
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