decision time...which power supply would you take

fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
edited February 2005 in Hardware
thanks to everyones suggestions here need a new power supply ive narrowed it down to a few choices...but would like one last imput from you guys before i buy on friday. choices are:

<strike>Ultra X-Connect 500w $89</strike> >nevermind on this one

OCZ Modstream 450w $90

Fortron Blue Storm 500w $89

Antec TruePower 480w $85

lemme know your opinions, thank you
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Comments

  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    My vote goes to the Antec.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited February 2005
    Well you can rule out the X-Connect right now, as it's a complete POS. These pics of the interior came from a review... this is not a 500w PSU. It's a 250w PSU that they're marketing as a 500w PSU.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited February 2005
    ...and while Fortron is generally a decent manufacturer, this is not likely to be a 500w PSU either. Regardless of the fact that it has a 120mm fan, these heatsinks are unacceptably small.

    Pics:
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited February 2005
    The OCZ looks ok in this pic, although the lack of large transformers and caps worries me... the heatsinks are a decent size tho for sure.
    ocz.JPG 47.7K
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    geeky1...MM found the fortron to be a pretty good psu here..

    http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=277
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited February 2005
    I would say to go with either the Antec or the OCZ, since both have 3 year warrantees. Also, the OCZ can be configured with just the cables you need and they also have an official representative here at Short Media too.

    EDIT: the X Connect is manufactured by Powmax, 'nuff said about it. ;)
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited February 2005
    fatcat: I'm aware of that; he also didn't test it properly. I know he did the best he could, and I know that most PSU reviews are done the same way, but hooking up a computer to a power supply and then checking the voltages doesn't tell you **** about how good the PS actually is. This is why I haven't reviewed any of my PSUs yet... I don't have the means to test them properly right now, so the reviews would be worthless. The data in the Thermalright XP-120 review I did is bad enough... I won't write a PSU review with data that'll be even more worthless. Until I see those PSUs tested under controlled conditions I can't reccommend any of them except the Antec or maybe the OCZ.
  • madmatmadmat
    edited February 2005
    I say an ANTEC 480w NeoPower would give you the performance and the removable cables you want.
  • lemonlimelemonlime Canada Member
    edited February 2005
    I've had great luck with Antec products. I have a True430, and it works great. One thing you may want to keep in mind though..

    I believe the True series of PSUs are ATX1.1, and do not have 24-pin ATX connectors (something for the PCI-e spec). I just built up my DFI NF4 system (which is an ATX2.0 board). It still works great with my 20-pin antec, but if you are looking for a future friendly PSU, something like the OCZ may be a better bet, as it is a native 24-pin PSU, and has pci-e power leads.

    The OCZ PSUs have had glowing reviews, so you cant go wrong. Another thing to keep in mind is the dimensions of the OCZ PSUs. They are a bit deeper than the usual size, and have trouble fitting in some lian-li cases.

    The X-connect has also gotten some decent reviews surprisingly, however I can't wrap my head around all the bling :mullet:

    Fortron makes a good overall PSU as well. I believe the OCZ powerstream PSUs are based on Forton design actually. I have not had the chance to use one though, they are hard to find in Canada.
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    My head hurts too much to look them up right now, but I have two criteria.
    1. Combined 3.3 +5 load rating
    2. weight

    If it has a 240W or higher rating and it is heavy I like it. Weight relates to the tranformers and gives you an idea of how much overbuilt it is . If they have cut every last ounce out then you have no reserve capacity.
  • GrayFoxGrayFox /dev/urandom Member
    edited February 2005
    Antec it will provide a tru watage :) .
    The ocz one is aparenly decent too :D .
  • floppybootstompfloppybootstomp Greenwich New
    edited February 2005
    Geeky1 wrote:
    The OCZ looks ok in this pic, although the lack of large transformers and caps worries me... the heatsinks are a decent size tho for sure.

    It's probably a switched mode PSU, hence no TX or smoothing Caps.

    And another vote for the Antec - I got one of those 480W jobbies - no probs :)
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    I have had 2 Antecs died on me lately and they are not getting my support anymore.
    It's a close match between the Fortron (i have the superb 530W) and the OCZ Powerstream (i'd chose that one over the modstream if you are not into casemodding), but i vote for the OCZ since it have adjustable rails, and comes with a 5 year warranty (3 year swapout and 2 year rtb).
    Just over a hundred at the "Egg" http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-150&depa=0 or $86 at Atacom http://www.atacom.com/program/atacom.cgi?USER_ID=www&cart_id=&SEARCH=SEARCH_ALL&ordered_number=&KEYWORDS=O4_20

    Ohh...btw. Fortron isn't the manufacturer ;)
  • floppybootstompfloppybootstomp Greenwich New
    edited February 2005
    I also had an Antec PSU die on me recently, first Antec PSU I ever bought, a 300 Watter.

    But it was five years old and had been on 24/7 with machine at constant full load, so, really, that weren't so bad, I suppose.

    I'll still buy Antec. Or Enermax. Or Tagan.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited February 2005
    IMO, Enermax is way overrated. They are just too expensive for what you get. I recently had a 550 watt Enermax 651P-VE die on me and it was only around 3 years old and it took the mobo out too. :bawling: Luckily, the procs and memory and drives were OK though.
  • floppybootstompfloppybootstomp Greenwich New
    edited February 2005
    muddocktor wrote:
    IMO, Enermax is way overrated. They are just too expensive for what you get. I recently had a 550 watt Enermax 651P-VE die on me and it was only around 3 years old and it took the mobo out too. :bawling: Luckily, the procs and memory and drives were OK though.

    That's interesting. I've never actually used an Enermax PSU, but I read so much good stuff about them I just assumed they were one of the better ones.

    Noted.
  • leishi85leishi85 Grand Rapids, MI Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    just recently had my Antec 400 watt smart power die on my too.
  • MediaManMediaMan Powered by loose parts.
    edited February 2005
    If I may offer an observation on ANTEC.

    ANTEC's reputation is by word of mouth...or rather word of forum. The common belief is that ANTEC is a better power supply than most other brands on the market...especially when it comes to overclocking.

    To the best of my knowledge there has been no formal double-blind studies run on ANTEC power supplies...or others for that matter. A proper load tester is an expensive piece of machinery and very few, if any, websites have access to a DC load tester where power supplies can be tested under normal and heavy loads over a short and long period. OR that a several of the same brand and model can be tested for an average.

    So to say one brand or another is the best is a matter of that poster's opinion.

    You'll find, however, that the majority will agree on brands to be avoided.

    Heatsink size is also not the proper way to measure a power supply's performance or reliability. If a power supply has a 120 mm. fan then the manufacturer may have determined that the active cooling provided by the fan was enough to warrant a smaller heatsink. If the manufacturer wants a "slient" power supply with an 80mm. fan at lower RPM..then the heatsink would have to be larger to dissapate the thermal energy.

    Heatsink size should alert the buyer to questions. A small or large heatsink may not make a PSU worse or better. Look at the big picture before making a decision.

    For example: A PSU that features a lower RPM cooling fan that is 80 or 90 mm. with a small heatsink may be headed for heat failure in warm environment where a PC is under continual load. EG: a gaming rig in Florida in a room with no air conditioning.

    RAILS are also another misunderstood area of a power supply.

    The "rail" or the particular voltage supply line (EG: the 5 volt line may be called a RAIL) should be steady. A rail that fluctuates 0.5 to 1.0 volts on a continual basis may cause hiccups in the system. Like riding a bike with a wobbly tire...something is going to crash sooner than later.

    A RAIL that is rated at 5 volts (for example) that is steady but measures in a 4 volts will also be insufficient for proper PC performance.

    There is nothing that can be gained from a RAIL that greatly exceeds its rating. Example: A 12 volt rail that measures in at 13 volts isn't better.

    What you want is a steady rail idle and under load. Think of it this way. You have a truck that goes zero to 60 in 15 seconds and then holds steady at 59-61 MPH. Add a trailer and you want that same 0-60 in 15 seconds and a steady 59-61 MPH speed average. Add more weight or a hill...and you want the same performance.

    You want steady and consistent delivery under light or heavy acceptable loads. No jerkiness or overheating, etc. etc. etc.

    Figuring out SPECs is another baffling area. PSUs typically rate 3.3/5v rails combined then a second rating for 3.3/5/12 volt combined but both are..or should include...at a specific amperage.

    This is where mathematics comes into play rather than the good old written language....but here's what I have learned; it may not be totally correct but this is what a forum is for...to educate each other.

    Drives usually work on 12 volts. RAM, I believe is 3.3 or 5 volt supplied and a video card is 5 volt supplied. The rest of the motherboard may be a smattering of all three but the motherboard itself isn't a big power drain.

    So you have to look at your entire system.

    A lot of hard drives, which are always spinning, and if you are burning a lot of CDs/DVDs all the time or listening to music means that you are loading up the 12 volt lines drawing power.

    Combine this with the fact that you are running a newer video card which draws a lot of 3.3/5 volt power and 4 sticks of RAM...well then...you've got a pretty even draw on all of your PSU....

    So you may want to look at a PSU that has a good rating on all lines...EG: 400 watts at 20 amps combined 3.3/5/12 volt. (realize I just made that up for example sake)

    But then...on a different side of the coin...let's suppose you run a big video card drawing a lot of power...heaps of ram but only on DVD rom and a single hard drive....you may want to choose a power supply that favors the 3.3/5 volt line combined with good specs.


    "Fine tuning" a choice involves knowing how to figure out loads, amperages, volts, watts..etc. and how to combine multiple loads by multiple devices. Something I know that I'm not particularily adaept at.


    I'm not saying that ANTEC is a good or bad brand. I'm saying that it isn't the best and most of what I have read comes from reputation that is passed down but no one really knows where the "truth" comes from.

    With respect to the peformance of an FSP power supply that I have reviewed...two of them so far....I can only say this. Under the month that each of them were operational in an average new system under average usage conditions...there were no problems. The rest is my notes on what length of each lead was...what type...what pros and cons were.

    Conversely I have had an Enermax 465 PSU running 6 SCSI drives, 2 optical drives, 1 EIDE drive, a dual processor motherboard with 4 x 512 MB of memory, 10 fans, 8 neon sticks, 5 LED switch lights, 1 LCD display device for nearly 2 years and it hasn't failed or shown any power problems.

    Is Enermax the best?

    No...that's just what my system has...I may replace it with the FSP for a while and see if anything goes BORK just to compare.




    ANTEC and FSP are only 4 bucks apart so it's not a matter of price. The features of each as far as leads and connections (or noise) may make your decision for you...or you may look at the specs and base a decision on that...or any other combination of factors but I don't think you'll go wrong with either.


    That's my humble two Canadian cents...or sense...


    :)


    phew...


    copyright 2005 mediaman long winded posts inc.
  • floppybootstompfloppybootstomp Greenwich New
    edited February 2005
    A good idea may be to make up an extension ATX main connector extension lead with a terminal block half way along where an ampmeter can be plugged in to measure current.

    Connect meter probes between one open rail at a time, then measure current on each rail. At the same time, use another meter on DC volts setting to measure stability on that particular rail.

    Add to that taking temps from various heat sinks on voltage regulators and you could probably apraise a PSU's performance just by observation.

    You really don't need an expensive test machine to judge a PSU, just a whole heap of time and patience.

    I've done the above on PSU's in the past, to investigate problems, it really is quite surprising how much extra current is drawn when an optical drive kicks in, for example.

    On one thing, I think everybody is agreed. Good PSU's are rarely judged, cos they don't give you problems. A cheapo POS PSU will soon show itself, so yes, I can understand why many forum members can say 'this particular make is bad' yet nobody can say with certainty if a PSU will deliver it's quoted potential.

    All we really know, without testing, is that it works OK on a particular system without problems.
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    As strange as it seems the only tests that I have seen that involve fully loading PSUs were done by Tom's. While they are not exactly an unbiased source the information was solid, but,,, they only tested one of each. A bunch did smoke before they reached rated output.
    Recent hardware reviews by Anandtech involve measureing the actuall current draw of a system, CPU, mem, vid etd. Most big systems don't really push the PSU.

    I am going to have to think about this, I'll check out our load bench at work.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited February 2005
    Yeah, Tom's actually did some meaningful psu tests and on Anandtech's last psu roundup, they also built a resistive-based load tester for loading the rails.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    I would go with OCZ Powerstream. They come with ATX and EPS (EPS is preferred for NF4 SLI boards) connections and have adjustable rails. From what I have seen they also seem to be quite solid. I am also in the market for a new PSU (not that there's anything wrong with my Truepower 480) and have it down to 2 right now.

    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-918&depa=1

    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-152&depa=1
  • lemonlimelemonlime Canada Member
    edited February 2005
    If you were to take money out of the picture..

    http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/power_supplies/highperformance/index.htm

    :thumbsup:
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    hey, thank you to everyone for their imput, I appreciate it greatly.

    I will be buying the psu tonight after my paycheck gets direct deposited, but while I was looking I noticed this on excaliberpc.com
    http://www.excaliberpc.com/product_info.php?cPath=208_608_209&products_id=4424
    anyone bought one of these?, or any comments on buying a refurb psu?..I've gotten numerous motherboards refurb before, but not a psu. wondering if i should throw this one into the pile?

    thankse
  • MediaManMediaMan Powered by loose parts.
    edited February 2005
    Refurb could mean "restocked" then it's a deal...or fixed...

    Ya rolls the dice...yas takes yer chances.
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    thank you for all the replies

    i decided to get this one
    http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/power_management/ocz_powerstream_power_supply
    PSUfull.jpg
    couple reasons why...it was within my price range, it supports ATX, BTX, etc. has a 5yr warranty, adjustable rails, good reviews, and i can bug mackanz like hell if it dont work well ;D

    btw i got the 420w version off www.svc.com for $89

    fc6.
  • GnomeWizarddGnomeWizardd Member 4 Life Akron, PA Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    yea i might be replacing my ultra x connect 500 sooner or later and go with an ocz just cause if it goes i cna come a knocking to mack
  • djstubbsdjstubbs NJ
    edited February 2005
    geeky, i have an ultra x-connect 500 w, and have had absolutely no problems running it.

    My old psu could barely run my system so i upgraded to this one, and it runs great. (the old psu was a 350w antec)..., (so obviously this one isn't 250 w, or it wouldn't be able to run everything.)

    it's given me awesome performance as well.

    please explain.

    ---

    but if i were to be in the market for a psu again, i'd go with an ocz 600w, because it's superior in a few ways.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    fatcat
    Good choice!!! :thumbsup:

    BTW
    Bugging Mack is the best reason of all! ;)
  • GnomeWizarddGnomeWizardd Member 4 Life Akron, PA Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    mine runs fine too but he still doent like em
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