Gotta build a dualie

pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
edited February 2005 in Hardware
Well, my dad has decided he wants a dualie to do his CAD work on. Fine with me cause I get to play with it!! I know absolutely nothing about dualies and the current hot setups so I was wondering if you guys could give me some suggestions. I'm an AMD fanboy of course, but I don't mind Intel stuff if I have to, all I know is that my dad says to keep it under 2k.
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Comments

  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    opterons!
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    Anyone know if the Abit WN-2S+ is out?
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited February 2005
    Well... right now the Xeon systems are cheaper than the Opterons, and my dual 2.8 Xeon @ 3.2 is a damn fast machine... easily the fastest machine I've ever used, in fact. A good Opteron system would certainly be faster, but the Xeons aren't bad either, and they're cheaper.
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited February 2005
    The abit board Thrax mentioned looks to be a nice one.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    What does the 2k need to include a monitor also?
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited February 2005
    Unless you need the high end opterons they are not that expensive.

    And thrax I don't know if the Abit board is out but as far as I know they never brought any dual amd board to market ( they had some intel ones I think) so I would hedge my bets and go MSI or Tyan. Doubt his Dad is gonna overclock or anything.

    Tex
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    Why build? I've got a dual CPU system for sale:

    Abit BP-6 motherboard, one month old rebuilt / RMA from Abit. Been running folding at 100% for a month, never a crash!

    Windows 2000 Pro

    Twin 533 Mhz Mendocino core Socket 370 Celerons overclocked to 600 Mhz (raised FSB to 75 Mhz).

    256 MB PC133 SDRAM

    CD drive

    6 GB hard drive

    Cheap computer case with 400 watt generic "Performance" brand power supply.

    Pentium 3 size all aluminum heat sinks and 60 mm Foxconn cooling fans.

    All for the bargain basement price of $190 plus UPS!!!

    What a deal, right? :D

    Seriously, it's for sale.
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited February 2005
    Yeah if he wants 4 or 5 year old technology that can be outrun by a new cpu/motherboard for $50 I guess its a cool deal.

    Tex
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    It's a dual system. He said he wanted a dual system. He didn't say a FAST dual system. :rolleyes:
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited February 2005
    Who wants a "dual" system slower then a single cpu system made a couple years ago?

    Get real.

    Tex
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    Tim wrote:
    It's a dual system. He said he wanted a dual system. He didn't say a FAST dual system. :rolleyes:

    thanks for the offer Tim, but I'm looking for something quicker.
    csimon wrote:
    What does the 2k need to include a monitor also?

    It will need a monitor. Probably a used 21" Trinitron or whatever good deal I can find at the time.

    The system needs to have a few gig of ram, good vid card, and then the dual proc. I'd like to go Opterons if I could I guess, a 64 bit system would be nice to have around.

    OCing would definitely not be done on this system, it needs to be very reliable (I know I can make it reliable, but I'd rather just spend a bit extra rather than go low and OC on this one).

    Other than that I guess a DVD burner so he could put big model files on it, and do you think I should RAID it? Seems to be the type of thing to do with a system like this.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited February 2005
    Tex wrote:
    Who wants a "dual" system slower then a single cpu system made a couple years ago?

    Get real.

    Tex

    I'm pretty sure he was joking tex... people don't generally put ":D" smilies in their post unless they're being funny (or at least trying to be...) ;)

    Oh, and to answer your question (which I'm sure was rhetorical) I buy old SMP stuff that's slower than a new single CPU & board combo... I'm actually sort of considering buying a Tyan Thunder 2500 (Dual slot 1, Serverworks chipset, 8 DIMM slots, takes ECC/REG SDRAM in pairs only) at some point :p
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    What CAD program does he like to use and what type of design/drawing?
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    csimon wrote:
    What CAD program does he like to use and what type of design/drawing?

    Welllll, He uses whatever he gets his hands on basically. Right now he uses Solidworks and is getting Pro-E, I am starting to use Catia and I know IDEAS (Still want a Windows copy). We are looking at doing some other stuff on it too (low level CFD, FEA etc).

    Everything he does now is 3d modeling, I don't think hes started doing full assemblys yet, but I'm sure thats going to come. What will come out of this design program of ours is a full 3d modeled race car assembly. Not as complex as say a road car, but still complex with excellent system choking capability. ;D
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited February 2005
    Just because Thrax mentioned the abit board, doesnt mean he thought you should overclock it. It looks like it will be a serious performer in a workstation system: Dual opterons, 2x PCIe 16x, SATA II, dual GIG Ethernet.

    http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/products.php?categories=1&model=264
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited February 2005
    My point was missed. If I was building a dual cpu system for my DAD who wanted stable probably above all else I would choose a manufacturer with a long line of experiance building and supporting this type of boards.

    Did that one make more sense? Abit tends to cater more to the enthusiast crowd. Tyan had much more experiance making and supporting dual cpu boards. It's a much "safer" choice especially when you will get crap from your dad forever if you make a wrong choice here. It's not the sexy choice but it's much safer in general.

    In fact I am a Opteron guy through and through. I have had a couple dual opterons and I still have one now along with a single opteron rig and a amd64 but... for my Dad.... he might get dual xeons.

    The choices would be based on a differant set of criteria for "Dad.

    Tex
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited February 2005
    The stability of the Dual Opteron Abit board has yet to be proven or disproven.

    And yes I know MSI and Tyan name stable dual CPU boards.

    And you missed my point. He didnt mention it for looks or sexiness but rather for its Dual CPUs, Dual Ethernet, and Dual Video cards which could come in handy (I'm not sure how taxing the CAD program he is using actually is). In fact I would like to see the board have another 2050 chip on it for some more I/O capabilities.

    I was merely supporting Thrax and his comment on the board, which I also think might be a good choice if it was even out yet.
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited February 2005
    I think its a sexy board with sexy features. Not one I would build anything for a client or my Dad on.

    New board from a company with little experiance in that marketplace. A year from now ? Maybe. Not now.

    Would I get one for me to play with? Yep. But I wouldn't sell one to a customer much less my Dad who is much less interested in cool features as rock solid stable and compatibility etc..

    Way to risky to sell to customers or have to listen to crap from my dad over a myriad of bios upgrades fighting instability and incompatibility etc..

    It's a "black hole". Thats not what you stake your reputation on.

    Tex
  • McBainMcBain San Clemente, CA New
    edited February 2005
    Hey pseudo,

    Want a kick ass computer? Theres an amd 2000+, radeon 9500 softmod, 512mb ram, and some other neat-o stuff sitting in my basement, not running, for the last 6 months. Oh....wait....ITS YOURS....come get your damn computer.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    ok when we start talking sexy computers it's gone over my head! ;D

    check out the matrox parhelia cards pseud ...they have nice pci-express cards too! :thumbsup:
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited February 2005
    The board has features his dad might need, nothing else does. They are not just sey features, the might be needed features. Only the nF4 Pro motherboards support dual opterons and dual PCIe x16 slots. No matter who the manufacture is stability is not guaranteed. Any manufacture is as good as another with a new chipset like this.
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited February 2005
    mmonnin wrote:
    Any manufacture is as good as another with a new chipset like this.

    Hogwash and Bologna.

    I remember how long I waited for Abits dualy based on the MPX chipset. It was out on their website for months. Never got it stable and it died before reaching market. But asus, msi, tyan and gigabyte all managed to get ones to market. Some better then others.

    Now I have experiance with dozens of dualies based on brand new chipsets from differant manufactures. How many roughly have you had hands-on experiance with to date to make statements such as this as fact?

    I bet NOTTA. As in zero as in none.

    Thanks. Have a great day.

    Tex
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited February 2005
    Psuedo, $2K doesn't give much scratching room for a decent dually unless you plan to overclock the procs some. Here's some quick numbers for you to ponder on both Intel and AMD duallies.

    Intel machine:
    mobo - Iwill DH800 - $265
    procs - Xeon 2.8/533 (Prestonia core) - $280 X 2=$560
    ram - Corsair VS reg ECC 1GB modules - $255.12 X 2=$510.24

    core system parts costs - $1335.24

    AMD machine
    mobo - MSI K8T Master2 FAR - $212
    procs - Opteron 244 (1.8 GHz) - $327 X 2=$654
    ram - Corsair VS reg ECC 1GB modules - $255.12 X 2=$510.24

    core system parts costs - $1376.24

    That's for 2 middle class dual systems. By the time you add in a good vid card and drives, you've eaten up at least $2K without the monitor. For a higher end dual system, I think you need to allocate at least $2500-3000 for a budget.

    And I agree with Tex 100% about the Abit board. Since Abit hasn't had the balls to make an AMD based dually before now, I dfefinitely wouldn't want my Dad to be a guinea pig to try that board on. With your situation, stability is paramount.
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited February 2005
    The 240 opterons are maybe half that also. I got my last pair on ebay for like $210 for the pair. Last time I checked newegg they were about $170 and are maybe lower now. From a single cpu box to even dual lowe end opterons he would probably be thrilled performance wise for his uses.

    To bad he doesnt have parts to scavenge from his old system. If he had a burner and hard drives it would help.

    What kinda video card does he use now? Isnt a good CAD card maybe differant thena good gaming card also? I know they overlap some.... The guys I knew into that alwasy had dual monitors also. Just something to consider.

    Sorry but a dual cpu AMD based rig from abit when they never produced one based ona chipset from nvidia who has also never had a dual cpu chipset for amd rigs is just bad mojo. not saying it's a bad board. Just not something for clients or family till its been tested and stable for a year.

    Tex
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited February 2005
    Did I ever say it would be stable or not? Did I ever say it would be my first pic over Tyan or MSI? I never said his dad should be the guinea pic. NO!

    Basically all I said was that it looks like its going to be a nice workstation board.

    And I bought a dualie board from you, Tex! How can you question if I have ever used a dual CPU system?
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited February 2005
    You are not reading well today.

    You made statements regarding the stability of NEW DUALIE BOARDS based on NEW CHIPSETS from DIFFERANT MANUFACTURES. And it was Bologna.

    And this was my reply....

    "Now I have experiance with dozens of dualies based on brand new chipsets from differant manufactures. How many roughly have you had hands-on experiance with to date to make statements such as this as fact?"

    You have NO EXPERIANCE at all with NEW DUAL CPU BOARDS based on NEW CHIPSETS from DIFFERANT manufactures. And the problems and incompatibilitys with other video cards and unstable drivers, hassles with new chipset drivers and their problems etc...

    Your bought one OLDER dual board from me that had DOZENS of bios updates on it etc.. Years to get stabilized. Hello?????

    So you have zero experiance with new boards on new chipsets from differant manufactures and how they are stable or not stable.

    You have no buisness GUESSSING about stuff you have no experiance with and I stand behind what I posted.

    Tex
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    McBain wrote:
    Hey pseudo,

    Want a kick ass computer? Theres an amd 2000+, radeon 9500 softmod, 512mb ram, and some other neat-o stuff sitting in my basement, not running, for the last 6 months. Oh....wait....ITS YOURS....come get your damn computer.

    Muahahahahaha, McBains basement storage, cheap and easy!!
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited February 2005
    Marc, have you read Tex's previous posts? He said that he wouldn't mind that Abit board to try out for himself at all; it's just that Abit has NO AMD DUALLY TRACK RECORD to base deploying that board for anyone not intimately familiar with tweaking and troubleshooting. After all, that is Abit's first AMD dual board (if you don't count their pathetic aborted MPX board) and it's also based on a new chipset. I would think of trying a nf4 based dually from Asus or MSI or Tyan before I would try the Abit in the environment that psuedo wants to use this board in. At least those other manufacturers have a proven track record with dual AMD machines; Abit doesn't. Now 6 months from now, that might be different if the Abit board has been proven to be troublefree.
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited February 2005
    Well he actually does his stuff on a P4 2.4, 512 MB, LAPTOP from Toshiba. Don't ask why, he just does and I think hes going batty.

    Well, since Mudd's costs def make it look like I'm going to surpass 2k I'll have to come up with some creative solutions. It will need a CD-Rom drive, but I could probably forgo the DVD burner and he can transfer over the network and use mine if he was desperate, so that will drop some costs. Doesn't need a floppy drive, he just uses memory sticks. Maybe a zip drive, he does use those every blue moon, but I doubt it. Probably will RAID the thing so there is some more cost.

    What size case do I need with a dualie?

    Also heatsinking, I'm sure I won't need some monster thermaltake on it, so that will save some costs. I have a crapload of fans around the house that I bought for cheap so as long as it uses 80mm I'm set. I'd actually rather not use OEM heatsinks though, I'd like it to run cooler than that.

    Now vid cards is the other issue, Parhelia is probably the way to go for the workstation. I remember talking to someone before about this and that ATI or NVidia cards were actually overkill for this sort of thing?

    edit// Forgot about PS. I'm assuming it has to be a monster.
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited February 2005
    And neither of you have any experience with this board or this chipset so **** off.
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