Possibly putting together a new computer... Need opinions

MedlockMedlock Miramar, Florida Member
edited May 2005 in Hardware
Talking to my dad earlier, he's willing to help me put together a new computer. Basically my options are to upgrade my existing computer or build a new one. I want the new one because the P4 S478 is dead. :p

Here's the e-mail I'm sending to my dad (it's not finished yet... I'm going to add a third system with all the best parts that cost a fortune) with some parts I have listed for each system.

I don't know how much he's willing to spend... Here goes!

Putting these lists together based on prices, performance, and upgradeability. I think system #2 will end up being the most reasonable purchase...

Having a hard time choosing between these two cases...

Antec Performance I P-160WF Silver Computer Case
$130 at newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129141

This is another option... actually leaning more towards this one (I think this case looks great, and it has two 12cm fan slots for excellent airflow)
THERMALTAKE Tsunami VA3000BWA Black Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811133132

System #1
Upgrading current system, keeping a few parts to save money

Mobo:
ABIT IC7-MAX3
Expect to pay $100-$150 (couldn't find it at newegg)
eBay item# 6767469582 ends soon, paired with a 2.4 for $125 (awesome deal!!!!!!!!!!)

Processor: (consider keeping my 2.8, but it's a first-revision type 2.8 and i'm unsure of overclocking capabilities. Chances are it sucks at overclocking, and that's what this system's all about.)
Pentium 4 2.4 GHz 512kb 800mhz (the cache and FSB is important!!)
$171.99 at newegg, might wanna try ebay (again, cache and FSB is important)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116157

Video card:
Radeon 9800 Pro (may keep my 9700 Pro to save money)
$219 at newegg, try newegg (128MB 256-bit memory VERY important)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102286

Memory
pqi TURBO 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Dual Channel Kit
$218 (great deal in my opinion, this is some memory that uses samsung's super fast chips that I mentioned saturday)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141138

Power supply
THERMALTAKE Silent PurePower TT-420APD(D-FAN) PFC 420W Power Supply
$59 at newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153005

Sound card
keep what i got

Hard drive
probably keep what I have here as well

Total so far= $948 (-$390.99 if I keep my 9700 Pro and P4 2.8)
Verdict: very nice, maybe not worth it for a non-upgradeable computer


System #2
Current generation parts... will cost more but will perform better and will be able to upgrade in the future without much trouble.

Mobo:
DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D ATX AMD Motherboard (looks very nice, subject to change)
$128.00 at newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813136152

Processor:
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz FSB 512KB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor (looks to be the best value so far)
$202.99 at newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103535

Video card:
Leadtek PX6600GT TDH Video Card
$169 at newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814122201

Memory:
OCZ Enhanced Latency 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit
$134.49 at newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146896

Power supply:
OCZ ModStream OCZ45012U 450W Power Supply
$87 at newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104154

Sound card:
CREATIVE Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS GAMER (a 7.1 surround card, 24-bit dedicated audio sounds better)
$103.99 at newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829102171

Hard drive:
SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series SP0812C 3.5" Serial ATA150 (two would be nice for a RAID, it's 80 gigs)
$62.00 at newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822152018

Total so far= $1079.47
Verdict: computer should be VERY fast and last a long time. a new video card and processor is all it needs to last even longer.

What do you think? I could use any opinions/advice 'cause I threw this all together pretty quick, I haven't looked into reviews of any of these products yet.

Sorry for the long post! :o
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Comments

  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited May 2005
    After he comits, if he does and you have the moola. Say you have heard great things about the Karajan Audio that comes w/ the board and you would like to take the savings from the Audigy and upgrade the video to an Nvidia 6800GT or an ATI X800XL as you would be going from a 128bit interface card to a 256bit interface card. It will make a world of a difference. :cool:

    Unless you have a need for other features on the Audigy I would truly suggest rying the DFI sound first as it is the best onboard (but it's only partially onboard) I have ever had including my previous Soundstorm.

    Also, replace the memory you listed with this one as it is as it gets without spending an arm and a leg;

    OCZ Gold Series 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit System Memory - Retail $153.73
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited May 2005
    Another couple of choices for memory are the OCZ Value VX pc3200 which is cheap and in my kit like this will both overclock to 235 MHz with 2-2-2-10 1t timings at 3.1v and also the OCZ Platinum Rev 2 pc3200 , which has dropped in price significantly since I bought it and is actually a better deal than the PQI ram. The Plat Rev 2 also uses the same TCCD Samsung chips as the PQI ram.

    EDIT: Another choice for the partial upgrade plan is to go with the DFI Lanparty NF3 250Gb board, which runs around $100 and a mobile A64 3000+ DTR proc, which costs around $140. Cool it with a Thermalright XP90 (around $40 shipped from sidewindercomputers) and you have a kick-ass machine that overclocks like a mofo and runs cooler than a P4 Northwood, much less a Presshot.
  • MedlockMedlock Miramar, Florida Member
    edited May 2005
    Nice. Ok, questions ... concerns: (I think this will get kinda lengthy)

    Hate to admit, but I think I'm going with nvidia for my video card... Even though some ati cards are performing better, (at least with the games I play) nvidia seems more future-proofed with the SM3.

    mtgoat - Sounds good, but the audio chipset for the board is listed as "Realtek ALC850" at newegg. Are they one and the same? I'm confused...
    mtgoat wrote:
    Also, replace the memory you listed with this one as it is as it gets without spending an arm and a leg;

    OCZ Gold Series 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit System Memory - Retail $153.73
    The memory I suggested for system 2 is cheaper. For system I picked out PC4000 'cause it's intended to overclock. mudd's come up with better than what I had outlined anyway. :)


    mudd - About the OCZ Value VX pc3200... I like the price but the OCZ Enhanced Latency 1GB pc3200 seems to overclock better. I may not overclock right away but I'd like to have some more headroom.
    On the OCZ Platinum Rev 2 pc3200, that's awesome. It seems this memory's actually rated for pc4000 but sold as pc3200. It looks like this has better overclocking potential and it's cheaper than the PQI I had outlined. Great. :thumbsup:

    Now, about the NF3 board and DTR processor:
    I was trying to stay away from 754, but my current system has no future so I guess there's no difference huh? ;D

    The reviews at newegg have me concerned. One guy says that he had to borrow a friend's processor to update the bios so that the board would recognize the mobile processor. Do they sell them now with a newer bios?
    A few others mentioned taking off the mounting bracket for the HSF because the dtr chip has no heatspreader. How does the XP90 mount?

    Other than that, sounds great, both of you. :)
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited May 2005
    mtgoat - Sounds good, but the audio chipset for the board is listed as "Realtek ALC850" at newegg. Are they one and the same? I'm confused...
    Yes it is but DFI did a real good job with their implimentation and it is not part of the board but on a separate module. I couldn't beleive it myself when I first heard it. I also used the Nvidia drivers instead of the Realtek drivers and it comes up like below.

    Also, the memory I listed is intended for overclocking and is based on the new version BH-5 modules which is what Mack suggested to me for my second DFI NF4 Ultra-D board which has enough onboard voltage to take this memory to very high overclocks. I also suggested both Nvidia and ATI solutions that will give you a whole new perspective on anything you play as I am not really biased either way and just get what works best in my price range at the time.;)
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited May 2005
    TheGr81, about your concerns with a DTR and the DFI board:

    1. I've built 2 folding rigs with this setup now and no problems whatsoever on bootup. The first system was built with a CG stepping 3000+ DTR (bought from Newegg) and the second system was built with a C0 stepping 3000+ DTR (bought from Tex). On initial boot, both defaulted to using a 4 multi and around 1.0v vcore and no problems coming up. You have to go into bios and manually set a 9 multi and 1.5v vcore and then you're at rated speed. I think the very low vcore is what is giving some boards problems; they are probably trying to do their initial boot using a higher multi combined with that low vcore with earlier bioses. It was no problem to change to rated speed or to update the bios on either.

    2. I am having no clearance problems on either board using a Thermalright SLK948-U on one and an XP90 on the other. Maybe DFI uses a socket that doesn't have as high a step on the back side of the socket as some other manufacturers. My temps also show gret contact between the hsf and core; the CG runs in the upper 30's at 2700 MHz folding and the XP90 is running in the low to middle 30's at 2430 MHz and folding. BTW, these Clawhammer cores are honking big, probably double the size of a Barton core and maybe even a little larger. They are very easy to cool. :thumbsup:

    BTW, the XP90 comes with it's own mount for the mobo, which has clips on the sides like a P4 socket 478 HRM.

    One thing you have to unlearn with an A64 is that there is no real performance penalty running the memory asynch from the HTT (FSB) speed, unlike an NF2 board. That way you can run your ram most efficiently and not give up much if any performance. That Plat Rev 2 is a real good deal though; I paid almost $100 more for that around Christmas.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited May 2005
    that venice core is begging this copper xp-90 to "sit on my face"!
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited May 2005
    You got you a copper XP90, Chris?
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited May 2005
    muddocktor wrote:
    You got you a copper XP90, Chris?
    LOL I wish!
    I'm sticking with whitewater til I get my money's worth ...prolly a few years! ;D
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited May 2005
    I was just wondering. ;D;D


    Now back to our regularly scheduled thread. :buck::crazy:
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited May 2005
    well I just looked them up at newegg and they want about $67 before shipping.
    sidewinder has them at just under $50 http://sidewindercomputers.com/thxp.html
    svc is a little cheaper but none in stock.

    just a heads up. ;D
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited May 2005
    Personally I think the copper one is overkill for an A64 system. My regular XP90 is keeping temps in the low to mid 30's. The XP90C would probably7 be a good choice for a highly overclocked Presshot though.
  • MedlockMedlock Miramar, Florida Member
    edited May 2005
    I'm still not sure about the video card... I think the X800XL would be better 'cause it's 70 dollars cheaper. :)
    Does the venice core run hot? Would that be a good cooler to use if I ended up with one?

    mudd - You're talking about this DTR processor?
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103444

    Did I pick a good PSU? I don't think this system would need anything really special like a Neopower or anything...
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104154

    csimon - That's not a bad price at all... I paid almost as much for my SP-94 for my P4. :)
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited May 2005
    muddocktor wrote:
    Personally I think the copper one is overkill for an A64 system. My regular XP90 is keeping temps in the low to mid 30's. The XP90C would probably7 be a good choice for a highly overclocked Presshot though.

    overkill on air? now you know why I can't get much satisfaction out of my ww.

    yeah after all we're talking venice 65w 3000-3500 and not the new 3800 90w.
  • SoLoSoLo DirtySouth, USA
    edited May 2005
    I say,Go for the 6600gt..Personaly i have the apollo 6600gt OC and its runs VERY good for me...and i only paid $135 from a local seller...GREAT cards..GOOD LUCK :thumbsup: !!!!
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited May 2005
    muddocktor wrote:
    Personally I think the copper one is overkill for an A64 system. My regular XP90 is keeping temps in the low to mid 30's. The XP90C would probably7 be a good choice for a highly overclocked Presshot though.
    Last week I went from a 3000 Wichester to a 3700 San Diego cooled w/ an XP-90 and an enermax adjustable fan running @ 2450 (the fastest it runs without any noticeable noise) and I am getting the same temps I had @ stock speed folding that I had w/ my 3000 @ stock speed folding, which is 31C. Since the biggest difference between the Venice and the San diego is the extra cache I would venture to say the Venice will be the same also. Don't ask for OC'ed results as I have been busy w/ other matters and haven't had the chance to try it out yet except to run it @ 250 x 10 for an hour and my CPU temp only went to 38C while folding. So based on that I would say the copper version is a bit of overkill and from what I have seen on other sites it requires more CFM to disapate the heat (no real surprise to me).
  • MedlockMedlock Miramar, Florida Member
    edited May 2005
    Thanks for all the help guys, I think I've got it from here. I'll post back when we're ready to order or if I come across something that confuses me... Probably 2-3 weeks. :)

    How big a difference in performance is there between the 512k L2 cache of Venice vs the 1MB L2 of San Diego?
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited May 2005
    TheGr81 wrote:
    Thanks for all the help guys, I think I've got it from here. I'll post back when we're ready to order or if I come across something that confuses me... Probably 2-3 weeks. :)

    How big a difference in performance is there between the 512k L2 cache of Venice vs the 1MB L2 of San Diego?
    A lot of people say none or not much but I think there is a difference somewhere and we just don't really know it yet. I mainly went SanDiego since it is the same core that the new FX57 is coming out on along with some hunches I will be trying to confirm in the very near future as I have the time to test.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited May 2005
    Yes, that's the proc I'm talking about. I looked today and ChiefValue.com has the same proc for around $6 cheaper too. If you've seen in the pub, I've discovered that Newegg and Chiefvalue are one and the same. :D
  • sfleurietsfleuriet Texas New
    edited May 2005
    THERMALTAKE Tsunami VA3000BWA Black Computer Case
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16811133132 - DEFINITELY get that one. its so awesome
  • sfleurietsfleuriet Texas New
    edited May 2005
    i would recommend the Thermaltake W0014 PSU (480w). I have it, and its wonderful. It comes with fan speed controllers (one pci slot, one drive slot), and its been just fine for me.
  • GrayFoxGrayFox /dev/urandom Member
    edited May 2005
    Or he could get a thermaly efficent case for the same price
    Lian-li pc 61B
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811112025

    And a more relieable psu
    Antec TRUE480 ATX 480W
    And a better psu http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103909
  • SoLoSoLo DirtySouth, USA
    edited May 2005
    NOTICE...We are very sorry, the page that you requested does not exist.

    Newegg.com has been undergoing many improvements recently, which required some pages to be moved. Perhaps you can find what you are looking for in one of these areas

    ??? I couldnt find the case at the link you posted,but i found a goo pic of what you want.!!
  • madmatmadmat
    edited May 2005
    I've been running my Antec True Blue 480W for 2 years now with no complaints at all, the voltages are top-notch and rarely vary more than 2-3%. My PC's been running now all day and my 3.3ov is at 3.28v with an average of 3.29v and a max of 3.30v and minimum of 3.26v. The 5.00v rail is at 5.00v with an average of 5.00v, a minimum of 4.97v and a high of 5.03v and my 12.00v rail is at 11.97v with an average of 11.97v, a minimum of 11.90v and a max of 12.03v.

    The .10v sag on the 12.00v line is the about average, I check SpeedFan pretty regularly and I have seen it dip down to 11.86v from time to time but that's usually on really hot days when I've been doing a lot of disk intensive work and bouts of gaming during breaks.

    I really like the stability of the Antec PSU's though, my last one was a True Power 430w I got with a 1080 case and it's close to 4 years old, has had both the fans swapped out with lower CFM LED fans and it still is as reliable as ever.
  • MedlockMedlock Miramar, Florida Member
    edited May 2005
    Solo - Thi=e link works fine for me. :confused: I've pretty much decided to get this one anyway, unless I can find something bigger that still looks good. Any suggestions?

    madmat - I want a modular PSU for this computer. This computer and the last had rats nests for cables, so this time I'm using a modular PSU and SATA drives. I'm caught between these two.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104154

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103924

    I've heard a lot of good things about the NeoPower, and I like the dual +12v. It's just kinda expensive.


    Also, I completely forgot about the optical drive. What do you all recommend? I'd like a DVD burner... But I don't have a clue as far as optical drives go. :scratch:
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited May 2005
    Just remember 24 pin will treat you better. Especially if you plan on keeping this rig a while as it will also keep upgrade options open. I would also recomend these onstead.

    NON-MODULAR CHOICE(but better)
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103932

    MODULAR CHOICE
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104155
  • sfleurietsfleuriet Texas New
    edited May 2005
    i dont see why that case is so expensive.. that lian li all aluminum one... but ok i guess you guys know more about it than i do.
  • GrayFoxGrayFox /dev/urandom Member
    edited May 2005
    Anyone whos ever owned a lian-li will tell you how great they are and how they thing of everything. They even cover all the remotely sharp parts ;D.
  • madmatmadmat
    edited May 2005
    TheGr81 wrote:
    Solo - Thi=e link works fine for me. :confused: I've pretty much decided to get this one anyway, unless I can find something bigger that still looks good. Any suggestions?

    madmat - I want a modular PSU for this computer. This computer and the last had rats nests for cables, so this time I'm using a modular PSU and SATA drives. I'm caught between these two.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104154

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103924

    I've heard a lot of good things about the NeoPower, and I like the dual +12v. It's just kinda expensive.


    Also, I completely forgot about the optical drive. What do you all recommend? I'd like a DVD burner... But I don't have a clue as far as optical drives go. :scratch:

    The NeoPower has 2 very good things going for it, it's an Antec and it's modular.

    Antec makes top-notch PSU's and they back them with a full 3yr warranty, if they weren't sure of the quality of their products they wouldn't back them like that.
  • MedlockMedlock Miramar, Florida Member
    edited May 2005
    I've decided on the NeoPower. mtgoat, it has the 24-pin connector standard and an adapter for standard ATX boards.

    Is this a good DVD burner?
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827130034
  • madmatmadmat
    edited May 2005
    TG1, for the money go with Lite On, they make drives for many of the other makers and their drives are pretty solid, fast and better yet, cheap.

    I had an earlier Toshiba DVD-RW drive and while it was a good drive it for some reason refused to read certain types of disks although that's likely been fixed by now.

    I also recommend Asus optical drives as well, very fast and pretty cheap.
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