Unstable AMD

ShadowRyo

Hi guys I have a AMD Athlon XP 2600+ Thoroughbred that I got from a friend, I'm not quite sure what he did to it but man it's majorly unstable, and I was wondering what the normal settings or some stable overclocked settings are.

The current settings are:
Vcore Bios: Normal
Vcore CPU-Z: 1.6v
FSB Bios: 166MHz
FSB CPU-Z: 166.4MHz
Bus Speed CPU-Z: 333.7MHz

Also the avaible settings in the bios are:
Speed: 100, 133, 166, 200
VCore: Normal, +5%, +7.5%, +10%

Sorry I kind of new to all of this Overclocking stuff (The only Overclock I've done was my Video Card)

Any input would be much appreciated
Well Thanks in advance

lemonlime

I would see about getting that puppy stable at stock clocks before you attempt any overclocking. Those parameters look correct for the model of processor you mentioned. The vcore is a little low, it should be closer to 1.65V. You can increase that a bit in the bios.

I would take a closer look at other components in the system, such as memory and power supply.

First thing I'd do is run some loops of Memtest86+. [URL=
http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=276]See this article..[/URL]

Also, how are your other system voltages? (3.3V, 5V and 12V) ?

Also, could you give us some more information on your system configuration (i.e. what motherboard, ram etc you have installed..)

ShadowRyo

Thanks for the fast response!

Ok I ran Memtest86+ like the article said and let it run 10 passes with no errors
and here is a list of the other parts:

Mother Board: Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro2 w/ nForce 2
RAM: Kingston DDR 512MB Vauleram PC3200
Video: ATi Radeon 9600 128MB (DX9, OGL1.5)
PSU: Startek 400 Watt
IDE-0: Western Digital 40GB 7200RPM
IDE-2: Toshiba 16x DVD-Rom
Cooling: 2-In 1-Out Case Fans, Copper Slim Volcano CPU Cooler
(I'm planning on putting another out soon)
OS: Windows XP Pro

I Tested the 3.3V, 5V and 12V in a PSU tester and they checked out, But i'm sure that the tester doesn't put full load on it.

Thanks for all your help lemonlime

Leonardo

On the surface, given your machine's specifications, I don't see any obvious hardware conflicts. One more diagnositic before we examine specific hardware components is to evaluate temperatures. Do you have any temperature monitoring software installed? If not, please go to the Short-Media download page, download and install Motherboard Monitor 5 and report your computer's CPU core temperature and system temperature. You show that you have two intake fans and one exhaust fan? That might be good configuration, but the best airflow equation is usually zero pressure or negative case pressure, that being same volume being pumped as what is being drawn in, or slight more power on the exhaust than intake. Well anyway, please record the temperatures.

ShadowRyo

Thanks for the tip Leon, but would it be more effective for me to add another exhaust or reverse one of the current fans?

Here are the temps:
CPU: 57 c (in red letters)
Case: 55 c (in black letters)

Thanks

Leonardo

Those temperatures are high, very high. And that's with the computer at idle, I bet. Am I right? Any overclock with those temperatures would be nearly impossible. I'm wondering about the reported 55 for the case. I don't think that's correct. Perhaps that sensor monitors some other computer component in the system. But if it's correct, it's a wonder your computer will run stabily at any CPU setting! A typical case temperature should be in the neighborhood of 24-32*C. Your reported CPU temp is also high, even if you are using the stock OEM CPU heatsink.

For most computer cases, the best fan configuration is:

fresh air comes in from the front bottom
exhaust air is ported out the back, the higher the better

What is brand and model of your case? What are the fan sizes? What heatsink/fan unit is installed on the CPU?

While you are absorbing, please remove the side panel of your case. I'd like to see the temperatures your computer generates with more fresh air entering.

Edit: 57 is not a volcano, but considering you weren't overclocked, and that your CPU core voltage was not pumped up, and that your system wasn't even under load, that's just way too high.

ShadowRyo

I opened the side panel and the temps are the same, maybe my sensors are out of wack

Leonardo

Is it hot in your room? What's the ambient (room) temperature. Is your computer in a corner where the warm exhaust has nowhere to go and is being recirculated in your computer?

Also, do you know what model of CPU heatsink you have? Tell us about the installation. What thermal interface material (goop, paste..) you applied between the heatsink and the processor?

This information will be instrumental in for us in evaluating the problem. Maybe, just maybe we can get you through this without you having to spend money on heatsinks or new fans.

ShadowRyo

Woah I don't wanna burn the poor thing alive!

The CPU cooler is a TermalTake Slim Volcano

I've got 1 fan in the bottom front for intake
the next fan is on the left side panel near the CPU and it is intake
the last is in the top back and it is exhaust
and the computer up on a desk and is set a bit away from the wall for exhaust

Leonardo

How did you install the heatsink on the CPU. Did you use thermal paste in between the CPU and the heatsink's bottom?

ShadowRyo

the cooler came with some kind of thermal transfer stuff
BTW, where is the sensor anyways?

Should I try moving the computer to a diffrent part of the house?

oh all of the case fans are 80mm

Leonardo

You need to be more descriptive. Was it a paste, or a pad affixed to the heatsink? Is your room very warm? Do you know what brand and model of case you have?

ShadowRyo

It was pad but it was still a little gooey I'm not sure how to describe it
"Heatsink Material Opti Fin, Cu-Cu soldering" From NewEgg

The case is a Linkworld 3210-04-c2628
like this one
the front grate kind is sucky for intake

and the room is a little hot, but I don't think it's that hot

oh, and thaks so much for spending your time helping me

Leonardo

Unfortunately for you, thermal interface pads are about the least effective of all thermal interface materials. You aren't going to have much success overclocking your computer (CPU) without better cooling. I'd like to advise you on your heatsink, but I don't know anything about that model. Again, unfortunately for you, Thermaltake brand does not have a very good reputation for effectiveness. One step you could take right away is to apply a very, very thin layer (paper thin, literally) of quality thermal paste, such as what OCZ sells, or Arctic Silver to the top of the CPU core. I won't strongly suggest this, as I don't know if the resultant drop in temperature would be enough to allow you overclocking headroom. I wouldn't want you to purchase the paste only to find your heatsink is inadequate, or that your case doesn't have enough air flow. Seriously, before you can consider overclocking that CPU, your CPU core temperature needs to come down at least 10*C.

Considering that the temps are the same with the case side open, it would appear that case airflow is not the problem. Your heatsink is simply transferring too little heat energy away from the CPU.

ShadowRyo

Well what to do think the best move would be, New thermal grease? and a new Cooler? or an allout new Case?

Or is it completely hopeless?

Oh, and thank you a ton for getting me this far!

Leonardo

Frankly, with your setup (mobo and CPU) being already a couple generations old, I'd just leave it as is, run it at stock speeds, and save your money for the day you want to do a complete upgrade. That's essentially what I'm doing with my Athlon XP system (System No. 2 below). Besides, you don't even know if that CPU will be an overclocker or not.

If at stock speeds, you have stability problems, then you will need to take some heat reduction steps. In that event, you should remove and clean the heatsink and the CPU core, to follow with an application of quality thermal paste.

Any other opinions out here, guys?

ShadowRyo

so as long as I get my next computer's CPU running at 10 degrees over freezing it will be a easy as pie to overclock?

Leonardo

10 degrees over freezing

The temperatures you and I have been discussing, and the temperatures you posted are in the Celsius scale. It's the standard for not only science but for computer electronics. No you won't need to run a computer at 40*F for an overclock. But boy, you could get some great results that way!

dragonV8

Lots of good advise and help sofar, ShadowRyo.

The only thing that i can think of as a cheap mod to assist cooling is to use a dremel type tool to achieve something like this in post # 145 & 146.

This could be done on the front intake also to improve airflow by minimising any obstruction. You will need fan guards as accident do happen.

This may not fix your problem, but will assist with better flow.

Jon

lemonlime

Some great suggestions from Leonardo above. 57 degrees idle is far too hot. I have seen temperatures like that on my barton 3000+ and OEM HSF. The problem was that the heatsink was not 100% flat on the bottom, and made poor contact with the core. I'm not sure if that is your case, but I would suggest looking into a new heatsink and fan regardless. You don't need to spend a lot of money either, so I think a new cooler for $30 is a good investment, even if you plan to get a new system in a year or so. Thermalright used to produce a socket A cooler called the ALX-800, that took an 80mm fan. It was an awesome price-performance ratio. I don't know where you can get them in the US, but in Canada, they retail for around $30CDN without a fan. If you spend another $5 on arctic silver, you'll be set.

Ideally you'll want to see load temperatures in the mid 40s if not lower.

Also, there is a good possibility that heat is causing your instability if your load temperatures exceed 65-70 degrees, however I would still be hesitant to rule out other system components. Could you be more specific about the instability you are experiencing? Is it completely random lockups, or a specific blue-screen error over and over again? Does it only happen when you begin 'loading' your CPU in a game etc?

ShadowRyo

It's always a Blue Screen Of Death I never usually get any lock-ups. I also do get some slow downs but not very often,
But as for the BSoD some times it says MACHINE_CHECK_EXCEPTION. ATDIAGDL.dll, IRQL_EQUAL_OR_LESS, or even just a blank blue screen.

But the weird thing is that I can play certain games like Crazy Taxi 3, FFXI, Quake 3, or Silent Hill 3 for hours with no problem, but when I do something simple like play Half-Life 1 or a music video in Windows I get the BSoD. I also get the BSoD in Half-Life 2, Warcraft 3, Halo PC, Etc.
But when I'm playing a game now, I minize it and check the temp and it's only ever a couple degrees higher, the max i've seen it was 60.

Also about the heatsink is all copper w/ a 60mm fan, 21.19CFM Airflow (I'm sure if that's good or not), TermalTake Slim Volcano 10+ it was around $20, it was rated for a AMD AXP 3400+, So I figured that if it could cool a 3400+ stock, it would cool my 2600+ prutty good. Is this the ALX-800 you are talking about?

this site says that the AMD AXPs are maxed at 85°C does that mean once it reaches 85°C it's fried?, I also checked my friend's computer temp and it was around 55°C CPU and it's a 2400+, Is his too hot too?

Decided to improve the airflow on 2 new cases before using them.

Also that is a nice mod, maybe I should do something like that.

Leonardo

21.19CFM Airflow

One of the reasons your CPU core is so hot. 21CFM is very, very low. As mentioned in a previous post, it could be that your heatsink is seated perfectly on the CPU core, that it's tilted a slight bit. Get some quality thermal paste, take care in seating the heatsink, and perhaps you won't need a new one. Something else you could try is mounting a beefier fan on top of the heatsink.

ShadowRyo

Ok, I checked and the heatsink seems to be on pretty close, but I removed it and reinstalled it anyways but the temp seems to be the same.

I'm gonna go out and get some paste soon,
But for the time being I underclocked it to 133FSB (it's not stable either but still better) and now I'm getting 54*C CPU and 44*C Case.

BTW, is this the same Arctic Silver thermal paste you guys are talking about?

Leonardo

Yes, that's it. I didn't know CompUSA was carrying it now. They surprise me. They are continually improving their inventory for computer do-it-yourself types.

ShadowRyo

Ok I've got the Arctic Silver, but now I want to know if a rubbing acohol is ok for removing the old stuff, or is there something better?

Leonardo

I use acetone, to which I think nothing compares. Many are using denatured alcohol, which seems to work quite well. If you don't have either of those, you can use rubbing alcohol. Before using your solvent (alcohol or acetone), use a dry, lint-free cloth to remove as much of the old stuff as possible. After you've used the alcohol, use the clean, dry cloth again. The CPU should be spotless, and without a chemical film from the previous paste before you apply the new material. When you spread on the Arctic Silver (or any quality paste, for that matter), just put a small dot on the core. Use a credit card or razor blade to fan the mass out to occupy the entire surface of the core. It should be complete coverage, but paper thin, literally. You should almost be able to see through the AS down to the core.

lemonlime

ShadowRyo, I'm still a little hesitant to begin blaming your instability on the temperatures (although it is definatly an issue that needs to be resolved regardless) You said it was peaking at about 60 degrees while playing games. This is clearly too high, but AMD's maximum die temperature for your CPU is 85 degrees celsius, and the CPU should stay reasonably stable right up to that maximum temperature (usually beyond) while at stock clocks.

Have you tried booting up your computer using nothing but the bare essentials? (i.e. no special add-in cards)

One item I would like to eliminate first would be your graphics card. Do you have another one you could borrow to test with in this system? It seems a lot of your instability is occuring during games and graphical tasks. Also, you may want to try 'driver cleaner' and wipe all traces of your graphics card drivers, and re-install. The nature of your instability seems to lead me more towards hardware, but drivers can do some funny things too.