first time builder

xxkkangxxxxkkangxx
edited October 2005 in Hardware
i always had my brother or his frends make my computers but i decided to try it myself this time around. so far i got down some of the main parts that i want but im not so sure about everything because im not really an expert at this are anything.

for my hard drive i saw a 250gb seagate for a pretty good price so i think im going to go with that.

my friend told me to get amd proc. so i think im either gonna go for the athlon 64 3700+ sandiego or athlon 64 4000+ sandiego.

i'm not really sure about the motherboard yet. ive been lookin into MSI, DFI, ABIT, and ECS boards but ive heard a few mixed reviews for some of them so im unsure here.

for ram ive been told to get: CORSAIR XMS 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit System Memory - Retail

from a friend of mine but if theres anything better or if this is a bad stick to begin with i hope someone can lead me in the roight direction. also i heard some people saying this ram doesn't work sometimes and on some boards.

that's about it for now i think. i know i have to pick the case and drives/power supply but i think i can get to those a little later. alright if anyone can help me with my little project id be grateful. thanks :)
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Comments

  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited September 2005
    Thanks for joining our community! This is type of thread we love pouncing on. Before we make hardware recommendations, we need to know some very important information. The fundamental questions any builder must answer before designing a system:

    1. How will the computer be employed? What will it's principle use(s) be?
    2. What is the budget?
    3. How long do you wish to keep the computer. What upgrades might you be interested in for the future?

    Without those questions, one will build just for the sake of building, which is fine, as long as money is only a secondary issue.
  • xxkkangxxxxkkangxx
    edited September 2005
    im a pretty heavy gamer though i never really cared much about playing on less than "good" comps. i watch quite a bit of dvds and anime on my comp also. i listen to a lot of music as well.

    my budget should be good as long as it doesnt go to far above the 1500 line.

    i want to keep my computer for at least 3-4 years. i may make some upgrades in the future like speed and memory but i wont be sure until the time comes.

    thanks for helping me out. im pretty lost so.... :)
  • ronboronbo Connecticut
    edited September 2005
    Leonardo, correct me if I am wrong but I think he should go with the MSI or Abit if he is a first time builder. The DFI is a great board but for a first time builder he might run into a lot of problems with it..... ;D;D
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited September 2005
    MSI does have a reputation for an excellent compromise of performance and flexibility (ease of integration into new systems). I would not go Abit or NFI for a first time build.
  • xxkkangxxxxkkangxx
    edited September 2005
    oh really? ill make a note of that thanks
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited September 2005
    If you are a gamer, you need to go AMD. If your ownership horizon is three years, and you continue gaming, you will definitely be upgrading down the road. I need to do some thinking on this before I start making specific hardware suggestions.

    Omega, Muddoktor, where ya at?

    For starters, here's what we'll be looking for:

    - Motherboard, very recent tech, for-AMD, fast, resilient (probably needs to SATA-hard drive, PCI-E video card for future upgrades)
    - CPU - fast, but doesn't have to be the fastest
    - Video card - best you can afford
    - Sound card - depends on how much you value this quality (on a computer, I don't care)
    - Power Supply Unit - don't skimp on this!
    - memory, good quality, but doesn't have to be the expensive, high end stuff unless you will go overclocking bananas
    - hard drive - how much capacity do you need? will you want a backup? can be IDE or SATA -- your motherboard will probably have ports for both
  • xxkkangxxxxkkangxx
    edited September 2005
    that sounds really good for starters. i dont really care about sound much at all so it doesnt matter that much for now and i can always upgrade if i feel like it or i can move my audigy out to the new computer. thanks for all the help so far!
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited September 2005
    Must of our best tech experts are already in bed. I'm too tired to start looking around this evening. Your start getting specific suggestions tommorrow. In the meantime, start browsing the various forums in the Hardware section.

    Oh, I forget to add cases to your list. It needs to be something roomy with room to work in and needs to be designed for good air flow.
  • xxkkangxxxxkkangxx
    edited September 2005
    ^^

    thanks for everyting
  • ronboronbo Connecticut
    edited September 2005
    Leonardo is right again. Go with a full size case and and if you can, SATA hard drives. With the sata drives your case will not be cluttered up with big wide ide cables, giving you much better air flow. Get a very good power supply, the heart of your computer, a cheap power supply will give you problems down the line. If your budget is $1500 you will be able to build a very good computer with money left over. Remember, big case, good power supply and good memory. The first time I built one by myself I went with the MSI K8N neo2 platinum motherboard. It was so easy a child could do it. Good luck with your build and If you run into any problems the good people here will go out of their way to help you out... :thumbsup::thumbsup:
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited September 2005
    I keep recommending MSI boards to people who want a fast, stable, and easy to set up computer. This model is a step up from the board I bought last January, which has been running like a champ from day one. :)
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited September 2005
    OK kang, you are on the right track.

    Case. Pick something that you like the looks of. Make sure that it is well built. I use crap for cases, but then no one ever sees my machines. If in doubt look at Coolmaster, Antec, Lian-Li, Chieftec. You want a full tower case with 3 or 4 120mm fans (large, slow and quiet, but still move a lot of air).

    Power supply (PSU). Big and reliable. I use a bunch of Thermaltake 480W jobs, nice price and decent power. PC Power and Cooling are the tops, but they start at over $200. Solid units come from Antec among others. One thing that I look for is that I want the combined load rating for the 3.3V and 5V lines to be over 220W.

    Mobo: I am in favor of simple for a beginer. MSI and ASUS are good for first builds. Later you should try a DFI or Abit.
    You really should stay with a NForce4 socket 939 to start with. PCI-e is needed. Personally, I wouldn't go with SLI. A single new video card will be better than two old ones.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130484

    CPU; Hey, if you cut corners here you can upgrade latter. Don't blow the budget. Go with single core now. How about a 3500+? the 3700+ SanDiego is almost $100 more than the 3500+Venice. I would go 3500+ now. And then when you move to an OS and application that can use dual core you can step up to X2.

    Memory: Find a review where the specific memory was run in your mobo. XMS is good sh!t. Buy the fastest memory (timings) that will fit your system. It is a small thing but fast memory helps the feel of a system.

    HDD: buy at least two disc drives. You can keep backups and such on hand. You can also keep programs on one drive and storage on another. It helps keep things organised. The Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 SATA drives are nice and reliable. Prices where they are not it doesn't make sense to buy anything less than 160GB.

    Drumroll..............
    Video Card: This is where you sell your soul. Are you buying this stuff today, or in a couple of weeks? The new ATI cards are coming out, which might cause a slight price drop in the GeForce 7800GT. Today that is the card that you want.

    At least that is how I see it.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited September 2005
    The advice you're getting is very good. Slight disagreement with the case recommendation: although 3 or 4 120mm fans would be excellent, that much air isn't necessary unless you are looking for advanced overclocking.

    Also, you might wish to purchase a motherboard that has SLI capability (dual, simultaneous video card use).

    But....

    please help us help you by addressing a couple more questions:

    - do you think you will be overclocking?
    - do you think future upgrades might include SLI video operation?
  • JChretienJChretien Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited September 2005
    also depending on the operating environment, you may want to consider an aftermarket cpu cooler. I recently built a winchester 3500+ for a friend and his room is 30C+ ambient all the time. Its a REALLY hot apartment -_- anyways, i decided to shove the biggest cooler i could find on that sucker, since its location is such a harsh one. You may find that the stock heatsink may not be up to snuff.
  • xxkkangxxxxkkangxx
    edited September 2005
    - do you think you will be overclocking?
    - do you think future upgrades might include SLI video operation?

    is overclocking hard to do and does it help tat mujch?

    acording to your post im going to guess sli is where you run two video cards on one board? i dont know about that. im not really sure about it since i dont know if its going to help or not.

    if i can overclock by myself then i think i would try it but if its too hard for me then no.

    and the sli video..i just found out you could even do that just now so i have no idea yet. ill try to go look into it today though i dont know if ill understand anything i read. :confused:
  • JChretienJChretien Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited September 2005
    overclocking isnt hard, as long as you know what to look for. We'll tell you all about it once you have it all built. As for SLI, according to benchmarks (you can go to toms hardware guide for some nice graphs and various things) it helps, but it depends on what games you're playing. But as more and more people get SLI, game developers will make their games support SLI
  • xxkkangxxxxkkangxx
    edited September 2005
    i guess ill take a shot at overclocking then and im not sure about the sli thing but if its better to have it atleast for the future i guess i should maybe be looking into that?
  • NightwolfNightwolf Afghanistan Member
    edited September 2005
    Leonardo wrote:
    MSI does have a reputation for an excellent compromise of performance and flexibility (ease of integration into new systems). I would not go Abit or NFI for a first time build.

    I love MSI board!!!!
  • xxkkangxxxxkkangxx
    edited September 2005
    okay since i got so much from everyone here i took your advice and browsed thru some hardware parts.

    -for casing, there aren't any antec cases in newegg (correct me if im wrong) and the two coolmaster cases wernt all that great. from waht i can see the lian li cases look pretty good. the two i picked out were:

    Lian Li PC-V2000B Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811112074

    and

    Lian Li PC-7077A Silver Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811112049

    they are both pretty nice but then again i might not know what im talking about here so any input and other suggestionswould be great.

    - i think everyone is pretty much pushinhg for a msi board so i think ill go with that. im not really sure what specific board i want but a few people mentioned sli so ill be looking into that soon.

    - edcentric made a prety good point i think. i think it might be better if i bought the 3500+ venice and save $80 from the 3700+ san diego or there up. if anyone has another opninion please help me out since i become more and more lost as i move onto more complicated stuff. :scratch:

    - i was looking at some thermaltake, antec, and ocz power supplies but i have no idea what all the voltage stuff is and other information it gives.

    - i was going to go with the corsair xms because everyune here said it was a good chip, but a friend of mine said corsairs were only so-so chips. is it just my friend whos delusional or..?

    - i think im still going to stick with my seagate baraccuda 250gb unless someone else has a better idea.

    - i looked at the video cards and...x_x
    all i can say is wow. some are very expensive but my cousin said he thinks he can get a pretty good price for a 7800gt (wholesale price?) from a friend of his who sells some computer stuff if i really needed it.

    thanks again for all the help guys i wouldnt be able to even approach making my computer without all your help! :D
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited September 2005
    xxkkangxx wrote:
    ...- edcentric made a prety good point i think. i think it might be better if i bought the 3500+ venice and save $80 from the 3700+ san diego or there up. if anyone has another opninion please help me out...
    Ed gave you great advice. If elves snuck into your house while you were asleep and replaced the 3700+ with a 3500+ (or vice-versa) you would never notice the difference. Put that $80 toward a better video card or more RAM and you'll see a big improvement. :)
  • NightwolfNightwolf Afghanistan Member
    edited September 2005
    Sounds good. The corsair xms is great memory theres just better stuff out there!
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited September 2005
    When it comes to memory, yes, you will need good memory for a peppy gaming rig. But you won't have buy premium $$$ unless you intend to overclock the whole memory bus and CPU. For the performance I think you want, the spread of prices could be anywhere from around $100 up to $300 for one gigabyte of RAM. You won't see much, if any noticeable difference in game play between good (but unremarkable) DRAM and top of the line. Benchmarking and overclocking? Sure, it makes a big difference. But we don't know if you want to overclock or not.
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX Icrontian
    edited September 2005
    thats a really nice case. as far as proc and mem goes sounds like your on the right track, but id go for ocz plat. rev 2 mem. i have 1 gig in my system right now and stuff flies by. I have it running 2-2-2-5, which are really good timings. but xms memory is ocz's competitor, so its all good.

    on video cards, id go for nvidia seeing as they have sli, and are currently domminating the high performance market. Although ATI's new card will be out shortly, so im not sure what they have up there sleve as far as performance goes. ATI's crossfire, which is like nvidia's SLI hasnt really caught on yet. so id recoment a 7800 GTX if you can afford it. I have a 6800 GT overclocked to ultra specs, which is the step down from a 7800. I would at least get a mobo that supports sli so down the road when games go mainstream with sli you can always upgrade, but for right now the increase in performace is marganal. but if it fits in the budget, then by all means...

    Do you have a monitor, cause if you dont, you need to get yourself a decent one. Id go witha 17" or 19" lcd. with at least a 16ms response time at the most. try for a 12 or 8 ms.

    Id definatley go with the ocz powerstream or modstream power supplies. I have a 520 watt power stream and for about a month now it been rock solid. Dont be afraid to spend $100-$120 on a power suppluy because if you skimp on this, you WILL live to regret it, especially with power hungry video cards.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited September 2005
    Do you have a monitor, cause if you dont, you need to get yourself a decent one. Id go witha 17" or 19" lcd. with at least a 16ms response time at the most. try for a 12 or 8 ms.
    Right on. Recommend 8ms response time and 19" viewable. If you have a 17", it will only be a matter of time before you wish you'd spent $100 more for the larger monitor.
    but id go for ocz plat. rev 2 mem. i have 1 gig in my system right now and stuff flies by
    That is indeed excellent DRAM. But if you're not going to overclock, you can spend half the amount that costs and never know the difference.
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX Icrontian
    edited September 2005
    Leonardo wrote:
    That is indeed excellent DRAM. But if you're not going to overclock, you can spend half the amount that costs and never know the difference.

    guess your right. but ya gotta admit, it does have some sick timmings.
  • ronboronbo Connecticut
    edited September 2005
    I would like to add, if I may, another option for memory. When I was first building my new rig the folks here, I think it was Jimborae, told me about Patroit XBLK memory. The timing is very fast and it loves to work with the MSI motherboards. At the time I paid $225 for 1 gig of dual channel. Now it is down to $157. It is right up there with the premimum memory. 1 gig should be all you ever need for gaming. Anymore would be a waste of money in less you are doing CAD work... :thumbsup::thumbsup:

    here is the link to newegg for it.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=20-220-033&depa=0
  • rykoryko new york
    edited September 2005
    here are my suggestions...i say skip SLI or crossfire b/c you will save money on having to buy just 1 card, and in 6-8 months the next generation of single cards usually beats out the previous generation in SLI config. :thumbsup:

    case = antec sonataII w/ 450w atx 2.0 psu
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811129155

    mobo = asus a8n-e, nf4ultra
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131530

    cpu = a64 3200+ (oc to 3500+ speeds (2.4ghz) - it's easy and we will help you!)
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103535

    hs = thermalright si-97a
    http://www.svc.com/si97-amd-21.html

    fan = thermaltake 90mm smart led-blue (built in fan control)
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811999121

    ram = 1gb kit ocz (2.3.3.6)
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820227031

    gpu = sapphire x800gto<sup>2</sup>, 256mb/bit (16 pipelines, can oc to x850xt speeds)
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814102595

    hdd = hitachi 250gb sataII
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822145087

    dvd-burner = nec 3540a
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16827152047

    lcd = hyundai ld90d+ 19" 8ms, dvi
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824179014

    spk = logitech 2.1 z-2300
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16836121122

    key/ms = logitech cordless desktop mx3100
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16823126169

    total = $1481.90 @ newegg (shipping included) + 34.90 @ svc (plus shipping) = just over your $1500 limit.

    plus you will need an OS if you don't already have one. winXP pro w/ sp2 will set you back another $148.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16837102153
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX Icrontian
    edited September 2005
    I never said to buy two video cards now, i just said to buy a modo that was sli capable, so that he could upgrade in the future when sli becomes a nesecity., and id skip the ati card and go with a 6800 GT or 7800. a 6800 GT might be a bit more money, but its will whip that ati card all the way downtown. not to mention that more and more games are optimized for nvidia cards. that means higher fps.

    I can also vouch for that patriot memory. i only had 256 mb of it and it was great. i just wanted to try out ocz or else thats what i would've got.
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited September 2005
    riko has listed alternates for about everything. My only comment is, NEVER buy a Hitachi hdd. These days you have to stick with your Barracuda.

    Do you need a monitor? If so are you really cramped for space? If not buy a used CRT. They are bigger, brighter, beter color, beter contrast, faster, higher resolution, and less money. http://www.merkortech.com/products.aspx?category_ID=207
    Take a look.

    I would skip SLI also, unless the board is the same price.

    Yes, the 7800 is spendy, but it rules today, and it will be real powerhouse for the next year or so. If it ever starts 'feeling slow' you can toss in another GB of system ram and upgrade your CPU for less than a new video card. You at least feel like you have done something.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited September 2005
    Ryko, that's a pretty good plan you posted. I wouldn't spend the extra money though, on the wireless mouse and keyboard. Just me, but I'd just get a good wired USB keyboard and mouse. Is that OCZ 3200 good for a moderate overclock?
    upgrade in the future when sli becomes a nesecity
    That ain't going to happen. I think the SLI is just a temporary gimmick until the next technology, or until perhaps dual core graphics cards. It's just too expensive. Won't surprise me if SLI isn't even on motherboards in two or three years.
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