Two macines won't get internet... please help me out.....

Thanh-BKKThanh-BKK
edited October 2005 in Science & Tech
Hello :)

I have a problem here which i am at the end of my wits.... i know a thing or two about computers, but if it comes to "networkig" i am a newbie of sorts.

Here is the situation.

In my second office, there are alltogether 15 computers.
One ADSL line 2 Mb/s.
The ADSL modem has four ethernet ports.
Two ports each feed one switch with 8 ports.
Two admin computers use each one port of the modem.
A third admin computer is hooked to one of the switches.
12 clients are hooked to the switches.
All 12 clients are 100% identical hardware (Compaq Deskpro EN) and have all been clean installed even from the same disk.

All clients (12) are set up in a way only to be used as "telephones", using Skype (it's a call center, yes). Each machine runs XP SP2 castrated, meaning no user rights other than starting Skype. No other program installed, most Windows components removed. No firewalls, AV etc. Also software-wise all 12 clients are 100% identical. The only difference is their network name.

All 15 machines are supposed to have internet access from the moment they are booted (modem and switches ON of course).

Which works.... except TWO of those clients, which get the ethernet connection (symbol shows up) but won't connect to anything, neither Skype nor (admin account) Internet Explorer, there is just no data traffic going.

Swiching ethernet cables doesn't help - these two client's ethernet cable in another client and it works flawless. These two clients on other cables - same, no data traffic.

Either of the two clients running ALONE (rest of the computers OFF) - still no data traffic.

Either of these two directly on the modem (not via switch) - still no data traffic.

BUT... taken both to my office to troubleshoot - similar setup there, just less machines and different type of modem and switch - NO PROBLEM AT ALL, full access!!

How can THIS phenomenon be solved..?

Please, i appreciate any advise and help, but i do not understand "geek speak"...... i am new to networking and many of the abbreviations i don't know what they stand for, besides i am not a native english speaker so i have problems with that too :)

The setup is meant to be an internet-connection-sharing only, not really a LAN since none of the computers has any access to any other, and no printers etc are shared either.

Could it be that the two machines in question for some magical reason are incompatible with the type of modem used? (it can't be the switch since they won't work directly on the modem either, but they DO work in the other office where a different modem is used). Even tough they all have the same hardware AND software..??

Please help me out.... i am lost.......

Many thanks in advance.....

Thanh

Comments

  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited October 2005
    Sorry, I'm not much of a networking person if it's more than four or five machines, so I won't offer advice and make your setup even worse. Help will arrive. We've got good people here, including networking wizzards.
    i am not a native english speaker so i have problems with that too
    Your English is excellent. I speak a couple languages other than my native English, but neither of them nearly as well as you apparently speak English.
  • zero-counterzero-counter Linux Lubber San Antonio Member
    edited October 2005
    How are ip assignments being handled? DHCP, Static? Is there a router somewhere in this picture, or does the ADSL modem have routing capabilities? Which box is the Internet connection sharing router? If you run an IPCONFIG /ALL command on the 2 boxes that are not working and compare the settings to the ones that are, do you see any discerning qualities between them with the exception of IP address?
  • Thanh-BKKThanh-BKK
    edited October 2005
    Hello, and thank you both for reply :)

    As to my english, i am native German but i do live and work in Thailand since almost five years.... i came here with the english i did learn in school and a little practise from dealing with a very few american customers on my job in Germany. Only here in Thailand i improved my english quite some, bercaue i work in an english-only environment all the time..... i have in all those five years only picked up rudimentary Thai skills, just enough to enable me to survive should i be alone at some stage :) I am only 30 years old yet.... so there's enough time to learn these things :)

    As to the networking problem :)

    A router as such is not in the system, the phone line goes to the modem, from there each one ethernet cable (straight-thru) goes to two identical 8-port switches and two "admin" computers.

    12 "clients" plus a third "admin" computer are connected via straight-thru ethernet cables to the two switches.

    The modem itself does have four ethernet connectors, so i think that a router might be build in (?) but i know nothing about it.

    In MY office it is different as in the modem having only ONE ethernet connector which is connected via a straight-thru to a 8-port switch and the alltogether 5 computers (one "admin" and four "clients") are connected to that switch via straight-thru wires, with two additional desks equipped with such wire as well but no computers there - those are the "troubleshooting" desks on which i tested the two dodgy computers.

    "DHCP" does not tell me anything, i am very honest, i have no clue what that means. "Static" i know... but i do not know how IP assignments on these computers are handled, but i can tell you what happens when i disconnect the ethernet cable from them while they are running, and connect a different cable. It displays "acquiring network address" for a short while, so i *guess* that they "talk" to the switch and get an IP as soon as they boot or connect to the ethernet cable.

    "Internet Connection Sharing Router", what is THAT? I don't think there is one such on the network........ at least not that i am aware of.

    "ipconfig /all" i just tried on this machine i am working on, there is a lot of info there which i don't know what to do with. I have right now no access to the two dodgy ones since they are back at the other office, but both of them work perfectly HERE...... what *could* be the issue that prevents them from working THERE..? And... how can it be changed..?

    Please reply to me again..... i am glad that i can get help here :)

    With kind regards.....

    your Thanh
  • alexdcdalexdcd The United Kingdom
    edited October 2005
    I have a few suggestions and they are mainly related to your hardware setup. I know a little about networking and if the problem persists my father will be able to help as he used to set up all the networks in some branches of TKMAXX. If the problem is isolated to 2 computers only, look for similarities and check that all the cables are correct eg straight through or crossover. So the computers only need internet access as of now? is that correct? if there is no need for file sharing then the connections are going to be fairly simple. If you are losing money by not having two machines active, then try using wireless connections eg 1 adapter on a working computer and 2 on the currently working computer just for the meantime. These are only suggestions but if i am confusing you please tell me and i can clarify anything you dont understand... Good luck :thumbsup:
    Ps: you may want to try out a different hub/switch that can cope with all of the machines instead of 2 different hubs.
  • Thanh-BKKThanh-BKK
    edited October 2005
    Thank you for your reply :)

    Yes, internet is all that's needed. But wireless would be overkill - these things are not exactly cheap here and then those two computers would be different from all the others, which is exactly what we want to prevent. If we would outfit the entire office with wireless, it would easily cost more than the entire computers....... and we already have all the wiring in place.

    As i mentioned already, all of the cables are straight-thru cables, there is not a single one crossover cable present.

    And the reason for two independent switches is that there are supposed to be two modems as well, but one broke down and we are waiting for a replacement. This is to have less load on one ADSL connection, because here in Thailand ADSL is not exactly reliable, and before the whole office goes down if one line has a hiccup, we rather have two such lines. However with the "speed" of the customer service here, we may easily wait several weeks for the replacement modem from the ISP.

    The error occured after the modem had already broken down, so we could not yet test the setup with two modems, since the whole system has only been installed last week. I myself have set up each one of the client computers, and believe me, they are 100% identical in every aspect except their respective user names and network names.

    Kind regards.....

    your Thanh
  • alexdcdalexdcd The United Kingdom
    edited October 2005
    Sounds annoying, if wireless is not the answer then all i can suggest is using 1 computer that has both modems connected and then running the switches/hubs off that one computer. This would act as a redundancy so if one connection drops the other remains. To help me see what may be happening could you tell me whether all the computers are in one room or seperate rooms? The answer may be very simple indeed!. And again your english is very good. I am not a very good linguist other than my english as i prefer to learn by trial and error. PS: as for cables im not sure what your current profeciency but straight through is for connecting 2 computers or a computer to a hub and crossover is for hub to hub. Here is a useful link you may be interested in looking at , scroll to the table to check out whether it is a hardware/cabling problem you are encountering. The link: http://www.lanshack.com/cat5e-tutorial.asp
  • alexdcdalexdcd The United Kingdom
    edited October 2005
    Just a quick reminder:
    you will need to think for the future, you may need to introduce a file server to the network and use services such as internal messaging eg employee to employer information transfers. It is always good practice to spend a little more on obtaining matching hardware, where and if possible. You sound like an intelligent person and i doubt that your current setup will remain this way. As i mentioned previously, spending a little extra now to save headaches in the future is always good practice. i may be putting too much into the pot here but have you ever considered 'daisy chaining' the computers? This will require 2 LAn ports on the PC's in question with in and out. This is considered unorthodox but effective in terms of future expansion. If this is the setup you need to remain stable in business, then your current 'spokes off of the wheel' setup will prove reliable after the initial setup.
    Kind regards
  • Thanh-BKKThanh-BKK
    edited October 2005
    Hello again :)

    Thank you for the useful information and that link, i have just read the entire page but unfortunately haven't found an answer to my partcular problem :)

    About employee-to-employee information exchange, that has to be limited to the lowest possible - reason being that if they were able to exchange things, they would do that instead of working.... we had this particular problem since day one when they found out about the "chat" function in Skype, and were more chatting with each other than working. I don't want to sound like a slave driver, but i am a mere admin who's responsibility is to keep the shop running, so to speak..... i have to report direct to the boss and if there's trouble, it ends up with me.

    All of the computers are indeed in one (large) room, and the maximum ethernet cable length is about 25 meters (75 feet aproximately). The two dodgy machines are each on a cable about 10 meters (30 feet aproximately) long. The cables are perfectly ok since when i connect another computer to each cable, also those computers will work. It's definitely something in those actual two computers that makes them "different".

    About using two modems on one computer or any modification-requiring setup, it is not possible since all of the computers (12 clients, 3 admins) are of a type that does not permit any modification - Compaq Deskpro EN (clients) or Dell (admins), with mini-desktop cases and everything onboard, no expansion slots available in the cases. Each one has a single ethernet connector. The whole thing is really only to have a internet-connected computer to use Skype via headsets (clients) or Internet Explorer, MS Word and printer (admins) with as low as possible hassle - turn on and use, without needing to dial up or similar. File sharing etc is not required and not wanted, each admin has an own printer :) The admins were there before, i only added the clients and the second ADSL line (and two days before that, the first modem went up in smoke).

    All the solutions you suggest are sure workable and usefull, yet they would "work around" the problem, not really solve it - if solved, those two haunted machines would nicely go online just like all the others. Standing in front of them and yelling at them for 25 seconds each by the way did not help either :)

    The dodgy thing is: WHY those two refuse to go online even if they are directly on the modem, or alone on the switches?? And then (if they are really unable to get internet over LAN) WHY are they working perfectly in the other office..?????

    There must be a ghost inside or something............. maybe i should call an exorcist? :)

    This will be my last post for today - it's close to 8.30 pm and i want to go home :) I will read and reply again tomorrow.

    Kind regards....

    your Thanh
  • alexdcdalexdcd The United Kingdom
    edited October 2005
    Ok then no wthat the hardware is not the problem it must be a setting somewhere. try to compare the settings and make sure of no ip conflicts. Compare the 'exorcised' pc to a happy pc and you may see a problem there.
    Good night and i hope you sort it
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    edited October 2005
    Lessee-- only two computers of 15, two on modem directly, both cables work, computers work on another network (which also means those two computers also have a network connection and possibly an internet connection also that will NOT work at their normal "home" office and need that connection destroyed to make them not hunt for an old default connection that is unworking at the their "home" and then a restart each to let them hunt for somehting they can use).
  • alexdcdalexdcd The United Kingdom
    edited October 2005
    Straight Man, that is not a constructive post, albeit detailed, it lacks structure and integrity, could you please rephrase or change order of words?
    Kind regards,
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited October 2005
    I think what he's getting at is to remove all the network connections on the misbehaving computers, reboot them, then set the connections up again from scratch.

    Well worth a try. :)
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