help with new computer specs
So my old computer is ... old. It's not even cracking 500mhz, it's so old. Here's what I was thinking of, so I want to hear your suggestions. Thanks!
New stuff:
- P4 2.8Ghz 800bus 512k cache
- ASUS P4C800 Intel 875P
- 2xPC3200 512 RAM
- Matrox Parahelia 128? <-- any opinions?
- Lite-on CD+DVD read combo (DVD-R to come later)
- Case reccommendations w/400w PS + USB2.0 front inputs preferred
Old stuff:
- SoundBlaster Live!
- Plexwriter8/4/32 CDRW
- Logitech Op Mouse
- Intous 2 8x6
- 22" and 19" monitors
New stuff:
- P4 2.8Ghz 800bus 512k cache
- ASUS P4C800 Intel 875P
- 2xPC3200 512 RAM
- Matrox Parahelia 128? <-- any opinions?
- Lite-on CD+DVD read combo (DVD-R to come later)
- Case reccommendations w/400w PS + USB2.0 front inputs preferred
Old stuff:
- SoundBlaster Live!
- Plexwriter8/4/32 CDRW
- Logitech Op Mouse
- Intous 2 8x6
- 22" and 19" monitors
0
Comments
As a baseline, I'd recommend a 2500+, an ASUS A7N8X, a R9700 Pro, 2 256mb sticks of PC3200, an 80gb 8mb 7200rpm Maxtor or WD hdd, and one of those chieftech full towers with 4 Thermaltake SmartFan 2s, a Thermalright SLK-800, and another SmartFan2 for that... that would be a good midrange system...
To give you an idea of what I'd use the computer for, I'd be colouring roughly 7x10 sized pages with around 15 layers on a good day in photoshop. These files are usually 400 dpi, and are around 50 megs - 100 meg working files.
My computer does alright now, but gaming wise, I'm running low. A SimCity 3000 city tends to take forever to scroll. And with all the new proggies coming out, I might as well upgrade. finally.
I know y'all love AMD, but the hyperthreading is tantalizing. not to mention that I'm not really a modder or o'cer...
I've also got a few drives I'll be putting in, so that part is covered...
I also hear the the 9800pro will do just as good as the Parhelia for 2D, and plus, the gaming goodness. not that I play FPS's really, but I'm thinking ahead now... mmm.. games.
Jen
edit: trying making sense...
I may or may not keep my current hi-tower. Gotta check if the PS is built in or if I can rip it out. If so, I might just buy a PSU and keep the current tower. ugly ass as it is. all I ever do is shove it under the desk anyway.
What's the benefit of an slk-800? (i'm pretty heatsink stupid. my computer knowledge takes me only so far...)
About the SLK-800, as mmonin said, it's one of the best heatsinks
around for cooling AMD CPUs (or P4s if you get the "U" version). For some reason, a lot of people seem to think that spending extra money on cooling isn't justified. It is. A 3.06GHz P4 puts out as much as 105w of heat, and an Athlon 3200+ can put out 75w or more... add in the heat of a high-power video card such as a GF4, Parhelia, or Radeon (another 50w of heat or more potentially) and high-speed hard drives, the chipset, etc. and you're talking about some serious heat-producing capacity. The better the heatsinks on your stuff are, the less airflow you need to keep them cool. Theoretically, you could passively cool an Athlon, but it would require a heatsink far too large to fit on a motherboard... it's a good idea to invest in a good cooling setup...
I'll poke around a bit and post a few recommendations later today (it's 12:14am here and I'm tired...) By the way, have you thought about a dual processor system?
//Edit// One other thing... I may be mistaken, but I think that I've heard that hyperthreading is essentially useless for photoshop...
Photoshop is a harsh beast and the hyperthreading is tempting but.. Geeky's suggestion is a good one about a dualie board. Hyperthreading does work with PS, but not earth-shattering.
Photoshop is dual processor aware. The performance increase from using dual processors isn't in gaming but is in PS.. there is a significant one. Il dig out some benches I have seen on this and post them back.
The parhelia is a great card, there is no mistaking but gaming wise, you will suffer against a Radeon 9800. The radeon 9800pro would have the 2d horsepower of the parhelia (purely due to the age of the parhelia). It would certainly be prudent to consider the 9800pro .. it also has excellent dual monitor support. If you are looking for more than two monitors, the parahelia is your baby. (I couldn't live without my dual monitors!)
What would I suggest as you not an non-overclocker and modder.. but a great digital artist? who wants to game?
A dual processor board with a couple of MP cpu's (it would still work out more cost effective than a single hyperthreading CPU), a gig of DDR and a radeon 9800pro. This is very future-proof and reliable
then imagine Two of those Athlons working for you.
Grab a MSI K7D Master-L and two Athlon MP 2800+
Feel free to name the Pentium 4 system that will equal the Photo Editing power of a Dual Barton MP 2800 system.
Mobo & 2 MP 2800+ = $750
Mobo and 2 modded XP 2500+ = $400
P4's really do run well, despite what you read. They are not big on OC'in like the AMD's, and do cost more per chip. BUT, they do run well, run fairly quite with retail HSF's (which is all you will ever need BTW, dont waste your time or money for a big honkin HSF)
Dual AMD's are really strong machines, BUT I wouldnt sink too much into them. From what I've experienced, around the 2200 to 2400 performance starts to taper off. These things are begging for a new chipset they probably wont ever get because of the operon. OC'in one of these should prove dramatic improvements, but not something I would recommend to the poster.
More improtantly, stuff the thing with ram. 2 512 sticks should suffice.
Also, might consider using a EIDE raid array. Moving and managing larger files is much nicer. Look for a 2 channel raid card if your not overly concerned about backups, or find a 4 channel raid card and run a mirrored stripe array. The second option being the more cautious and expensive. This is one area that would probably see a direct benifiet in your work.
For video, if your not playing FPS intensive games, I would go with the Matrox for the excellent quality. I think it can handle games like SimCity
Might as well buy a new case and beefy PSU. Its not really that much more of an expence once your building an entirly new machine, and it feels nice to have everything new and shinny.
Just my two cents. If I was custom building you a solution, these are the considerations I would make.
MP 2800 L2 cache: 512K
If it's one thing MP systems love it's more L2 cache memory. Now that there's a Barton MP there no reason to buy any other version.
But even in general usage an MP system a far more responsive than any 1P system. A Dual CPU system will laugh at a task that would freeze a single CPU system.
Well, I am a dual CPU lover and user. BUT, for her needs, if you sat her down on a new P4, it would do whats needed, and be effiecent about it. Yes dualls are faster, and yes a single P4 would also do the job. Personal preference, I would probably build the dually for myself, but I would always leave the option open for a single P4 or dual xeon. It would do the job well.
Biggest thing I can see here thats overlooked is the HDD subsystem. I think a EIDE raid array would have a noticable effect in the working enviroment. I would build a p4 or AMD happily, but I would stress the raid array.
BTW, I work from a dual 1600 with no interest in CPU upgrades at this time. This is my smallest dually, and its more than comfortable and responsive. I really pound this machine, running more than 3 or 4 'normal' users might put together. Hell, its not uncommon for me to have 40-50 applications going WHILE I stop to take a break and play a FPS. Duals are great, but not the only option.
I know on a G550 you can independently configure monitors.
Can you do that on the 9800? Isn't one of them considered primary and the other secondary? Aren't there limitation on the secondary monitor settings? The parahelia is over priced and slow, but nothing handles multiple monitors and gives as nice of a picture.
It may sound like overkill, but if you earn a living using PS a dual Barton rig will be the ticket.
I know of a few dual rig users here Omega and Muddoctor come to mind.
and thanks guys. I hadn't considered a dualie system. I'm not exactly where to start on that, but it's a good consideration. Are they any harder to piece and maintain than a single p4? Or do y'all think that a P4 would be easier and yet still sufficient?
*nudge* Don't forget the raid
I've got a dual cpu system (with 1 cpu in it right now) that I'm very happy with... it's a MSI K7D Master-L with a 2200+, and it's waiting for me to drop in the 2 2500s I just bought... It's been stable as a rock- hasn't crashed once. People who claim that the P4 has any advantages in stability or reliability over the Athlon are simply wrong. I have never, ever had a problem with Athlon systems that could not be traced back to the motherboard, chipset, video card, or other peripheral.
About 2 years ago, I asked for a computer for my birthday (my grandparents buy me 1 thing like that every year that I choose) and I ended up going with an Athlon 1.4GHz. A few months later, my Dad asked me for my opinion on what he should get for some CAD/CAM systems (he works for my Grandfather's business). I recommended essentially what I had- an Asus A7M-266 and a 1.4GHz Athlon, plus a GeForce 3, a 40GB hard drive, and a CD drive (none of which I had- I used SCSI, waited for the R8500, and had a CD-RW and DVD). Since that time, EVERY SINGLE SYSTEM that my Grandfather's business has bought has had an Athlon in it. All 3 of my Grandfather's personal systems are Athlons, as is my Dad's desktop at home. We recently donated 5 systems to Habitat for Humanity- 4 clients and a server. All of them run Athlon XPs, and none of them have ever had any problems either. I've also recommended Athlons to a number of (very) computer illiterate people, and none of them have ever complained. Hell, I see people at computer stores that are looking at P4 boards and I usually tell them to get an Athlon instead, and why. I've got a P4 in my laptop, and I've never had a problem with it either, but the Athlon is cheaper, as fast or faster, and just as stable as a P4.
In terms of extra maintenance, I don't think you need to worry. Keep in mind that high-end motherboards (especially dual processor boards) are designed with an eye towards workstation/server use, where flakiness is totally unacceptable. I don't think you'll have any more maintenance on a dual Athlon system than you would on a single Athlon or P4 system, except of course, for having to blow out one more heatsink with canned air...
Raid is another possibility, and it may be a good idea, since photoshop likes having it's scratch file on a separate drive from Windows' paging file, and it seems to appreciate a fast hard drive. You could consider a RAID array for photoshop and a single drive for Windows and your programs and stuff. The problem with this is that the only way a RAID array is going to be faster than a single disk is if it's in RAID 0... the problem there is that if one of the drives in the array dies, you loose EVERYTHING.... I'd be inclined to stick with one (or a few) fast drives...
Clutch is right- a good power supply is essential. The bigger the better. It also has to be from a good manufacturer. Stick with AMD Approved units as a basic guideline, and I'd only use an Antec or a PC Power & Cooling unit on a high-power system...
Aren't you glad you signed up to short-media, Jen?
I haven't built or messed with a P4, but my MSI dually is no harder to piece together or maintain than a single proc AMD system. Like Rob said, the MPX chipset is getting just a little long in the tooth as far as cutting edge features but is still a viable and potent chipset. If you do PS work a lot, then a dually would definitely suit suit you well and the AMD MPX boards are affordable, unlike a Xeon board. The MXP chipset can also effectively use 3.5 gigs ram, if you really have the need for so much. One thing to keep in mind is that even though MSI says that you can use up to 2 unbuffered sticks of DDR in them, it's best to go with registered ECC on these boards, both for the ECC and also so that you can use all 4 dimm slots.
Also, you might want to give consideration to the ATA RAID option as Rob pointed out. The MSI board has 2-64 bit/66 MHz PCI slots and both 3ware and Promise make 32 bit/66 MHz hardware ATA RAID cards which can run RAID 0, 1, 10, or 5. They also have an onboard controller and their own ram so that they don't rob cycles from the cpu itself to run.
The P4 system is also a viable option with the recent release of the Canterwood chipset boards and lower speed 800 Mhz P4's that have hyperthreading enabled. From what I've been reading in reviews, overclocking the P4 2.4/800 to 3.0/1000 is almost a gimme, with no vcore increase needed at all. Remember that all the 800 fsb P4's are the new D stepping P4 and it seems like they have more headroom than the C stepping P4's. The Canterwood boards like the P4C800 and the IC7-G are also very feature rich, albeit with a hefty price tag(at least as much as the MSI K7D Master L dually board). The Abit IC7 would also be a good choice but is lacking a lot of the goodies found on the "G" version with the lack of onboard lan being the most serious missing item, IMO. If you go P4/Canterwood, then buy the fastest DDR modules you can; Kingston makes some 512 MB DDR3500 sticks, as does Corsair.
The PC 2.40C, 2.60C, 3.00C are all D1 stepping P4. The P4 800mhz CPUs are all "D1" steppings
The P4 533mhz with Hyperthreading are "C" steppings
the P4 533mhz without Hyperthreading are "B" steppings (and now some 400mhz are also)
Linky:
Hehe.. of course. where else would I get all this excellent techie info?
A Raid set up, eh? hrm... I was actually considering doing a SCSI setup, but a raid requires more thinking than just a dualie or SCSI...
I think I'll be sticking with the single P4 (easy) - or mebbe a duallie, but I have to do some research there... not sure on that. We shall see. ARGH. so hard to decide some times.