Reasons NOT to fold?

Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited September 2003 in Folding@Home
I'm going to try to find out who the IT person at the school I go to is, and if I can get ahold of them, I'd like to try to convince them to run F@H on the clients... What arguments (if any) can you guys come up with that a sysadmin who doesn't know about the software could come up with for reasons not to install it, and what arguments have you got in favor of it?

In terms of how much power we're talking about here, I don't have a great idea, but they've got probably 30-50 P4-1.6s and 30-50 P3-733s, plus several hundred other computers that I haven't worked with...

Comments

  • LincLinc Owner Detroit Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    The biggest potential problem is whether the network can handle the additional traffic. An entire school's worth of folding can produce significant traffic increases to a stressed system.
  • CreepCreep Hell Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Not really, you figure that it only has to D/L work twice a week. At varying times depending on CPU Speed. If Geeky takes the "Installer" in on a disk that's even less traffic that the network would see. So that's no longer a problem as long as you take into accout the fact that 98% of the computers on the network wont update WU's at the same time..
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Power concerns? I'm not positive, maybe someone else can fill in or tell me I'm wrong if I am. But probably 100% CPU load 24/7 (or whenever they are on) will draw more power than just when they are sitting there, idle, cause I mean if you look at the CPU utilization, if you're not doing anything, or just web browsing, IMing, or typing up a document, MOST of the time "System Idle Process" utilizes 90% or more of CPU cycles.
  • BlackHawkBlackHawk Bible music connoisseur There's no place like 127.0.0.1 Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    I really doubt a PC folding 24/7 is gonna use all the power it's rated for. There was a thread before that was about the power consumption and I think a 300W rig uses less than $4 a month. If the machines are always on even when they aren't folding then I bet it would only cost like $1 more or something.
  • drasnordrasnor Starship Operator Hawthorne, CA Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    If he's anything like the IT at my old high school, he'd probably say that Folding would smoke the machines. If this was my high school, he'd be right. I've never seen so many Dells go nova before. First the good ol' power supply hum, then the pop and PSU dies. Usually takes the mobo with it.

    -drasnor :fold:
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Black Hawk said
    I really doubt a PC folding 24/7 is gonna use all the power it's rated for. There was a thread before that was about the power consumption and I think a 300W rig uses less than $4 a month. If the machines are always on even when they aren't folding then I bet it would only cost like $1 more or something.

    I didnt say "all the power its rated for" , I said, MORE than if it was just idling. And you gotta figure, he said 30-50 P4s and 30-50 P3s, so at max thats 100 more computers, and even at $1, thats an extra $100 for something thats not benefiting the school. I'm obviously not putting down folding, just trying to help him with some arguments they might bring up....
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited September 2003
    It could slow the computer down. Its taking all the CPU cycles right? So its going to make everything else lag like crazy.

    The temps problem.

    Network problem can be big. The P4s should do at least one a day if they are on all the time. Sometimes if you look thats a meg up and several hundred down each WU transfer. I would say 1mb for up down to be on the safe side. Thats a lot of MBs a day and GBs a month.

    Compatibility issues maybe.

    HEAT! CPUs at 100% will heat up a room. Even if they are P4s and P3s. With 10-15 in a room even it really makes a difference let alone a huge lab(DeVry has one with over 100, more like 130 in one room). Then it takes more power to cool the rooms to a decent level.

    Just throwing some things out there.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    Hmm... the heat issue is what I was thinking of, from the standpoint that these are Dells, and no Dell I've ever worked on has an even halfway-decent cooling system.

    However, they're P3s and P4s. at worst, the P3s will freeze (cpu overheats and shuts off automatically) and the P4s will get really slow (cpu overheats and slows down automatically).

    In terms of heating up a room, that could be an issue I suppose...
  • TemplarTemplar You first.
    edited September 2003
    If he asks "Who is it run by" or "What if this is a PC virus" and "How do I know you're not aiding bio-terrorism", tell him Stanford runs it. That got my parents convinced to put it on a Gov't PC. Course, I have a rig that we got about 3 years ago from them (also folding) and they haven't asked for it back, so it's not like it'll be a problem if someone looks at it. Knowing that an institution like Stanford is running it should convice him if it's the deciding question whether he'll allow you or not. See if you can run them as services so the kids won't close the little red cog :)
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited September 2003
    I put fah on a 2.66 Dell at school and I did notice that it had an auto adjustable fan speed cause it started to get louder once it was running for a bit.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    mmonin, I just hope they didn't install the fan bass ackwards the way they've done with thermal fans on a number of the systems I've worked on (thermally-controlled intake fans with integrated thermistors? wtf?)
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    I think the trafic would be more than just once or twice a week....

    100x300KB every 2 days(ish). Thats only 30MB and it's split up, so really it isn't very much.

    Extra power would be a factor, having 100 machines going from 0-3% to 100% CPU usage could be quite a large increase.

    If the fans are thermal controlled systems than a room of 30 machines is going to get hell of a lot louder.....

    Latency. Most people notice a slow down in the responsiveness of their machines while running FAH.

    Just dont install it on laptops though, as thats just plain stupid.

    NS
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited September 2003
    I think it was a 120mm fan. It was one of those towers that you lay down and the entire side top and bottom shifts up. The HDDs are attached to one side and the mothboard to the other. It doesnt have a normal fan grill, just a large rectangle grill in the back.
  • GobblesGobbles Ventura California
    edited September 2003
    1. Decreased life cycle for the pc. Running a system at 100% can cause the system to fail prematurely.
    2. Premature Failure cost money to fix
    3. Schools dont have any money
    4. Power consumption of x number of systems running balls out 24/7 increases the monthly electrical bill, meaning more money, see #3
    5. The systems dont belong to you.
    6. Your going to make them work if something goes wrong and IT guys dont like to work on anything other than their own interests.
    7. Increased traffic over a probably substandard lan, can cause premature failure of network components. see #3

    Facts like those put against humanitarian issues is almost always going to loose. You also have to factor in they may not have permission to grant you permission as local school it people are not actually in charge at the local site, but answer to a district it staff that is accustomed to saying no to most everything as there is not budget for it.

    Dont be hurt if they flat out deny your request, as being of IT personage I would decline your request with out even hearing your arguements... Nothing personal its just IT departments generally bleed red ink and they have to be tightwades and deny most anything that has not been preapproved in their budget.

    Gobbles
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    Gobbles, your points are certainly valid ones... being an IT person, is there anything you could suggest that might convince them to do it? (I can always try to talk to the district IT supervisor if I need to)
  • res0r9lmres0r9lm Florida
    edited September 2003
    The only good reason not to fold I see in this thread is possible virus. If temps were a concern you guys do know the client could be set to use less than 100% of the cpu's cycle and as far as the computer lagging fah is very good at sharing if you have set the proirity to idle. There is even an article somewhere on the net raving about how well fah shares cycles.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Schools in the United States are mandated to have BASE100 networks if they are public schools. If they do not meet this requirement, it's a violation that they need to look at.

    The lifecycle of a CPU running 24/7 at 100% is decreased roughly from 21 years to 15. Even cheap-ass districts have a 7 year cycle. As an IT person for my school district, I'd work to get it approved, even though the people above me are clueless dip****s (Yeah, the locked three-phase power panel that has 3 x 110 lines lighting the neutral wire like a christmas tree is the KID'S FAULT ;[. THATZ WHY UR LAB SUXX.)
  • BuiesCreek847BuiesCreek847 In a van, down by the river, NC Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Let's see, . . . . . . reasons not to Fold;

    1) The person is tired of members of the oposite sex seeing them as a sex toy.

    2) The person wants to "Get in Touch" with their less cool side.

    3) The person wants that hot chick/guy across the way to stop staring while provocatively running their tongue round their lips.

    4) The person wants to lose their free parking validation.

    5) The person is a Company Man/Woman and wants to put an end once and for all being on the receiving end of extra co. perks, keys to the executive lounge, free trips to the Gulf with the boss and his 48' for ummmmm, I dunno, serious company talk while "weighing the hook".

    6) The person wants to stop getting private invites to free weekends at the private lodge in Vail colorado.

    7) The person wants to get their own coffee.

    8) The person wants to get less "Leg".
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    B.C., So how come I haven't gotten any of the above? ;D
  • BuiesCreek847BuiesCreek847 In a van, down by the river, NC Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Geeky1 said
    B.C., So how come I haven't gotten any of the above? ;D
    Ah Geeky1, you are sly! ;) I've always known a smart individual would keep quiet of such matters. Your subtil denial is classy. :thumbsup:
  • khankhan New
    edited September 2003
    With the heat issue, one could always just set it so it only uses, say, 25% of the processor at any given time. reduced heat, reduced network usage (takes longer to process units), reduced power consumption, reduced lag. should work right there. it'll take a little longer to finish units, but should still finish well under the deadline.
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited September 2003
    Man I worked in the Tech office last year at my HS and they have loads of computers that are P1s with Win95. Many are still in use across the school system.
    Thrax said
    The lifecycle of a CPU running 24/7 at 100% is decreased roughly from 21 years to 15. Even cheap-ass districts have a 7 year cycle. As an IT person for my school district, I'd work to get it approved, even though the people above me are clueless dip****s (Yeah, the locked three-phase power panel that has 3 x 110 lines lighting the neutral wire like a christmas tree is the KID'S FAULT ;[. THATZ WHY UR LAB SUXX.)
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    Hmm... most of the machines in schools around here are at least P3s (albiet slow ones)
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited September 2003
    They got some new Dells last year for the computer lab. The library is mostly 500mhz Celerons tho. Some teachers and the extra computers in just about every room are the slower ones tho.
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