New Intel D 820: Lucky, or Taken for a Ride?
Leonardo
Wake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, Alaska Icrontian
I just received an Intel Pentium D 820 (dual core, 2 X 2.8 GHz) CPU that I purchased on auction at Ebay. I'm wondering if: I've been misled and taken for a ride, 2) it was my own fault for not researching better, or 3) I'm lucky. OK, here are the facts:
The CPU has factory etched on it --
INTEL CONFIDENTIAL
QD OM ES MALAY (announcement shows "Qxxx ES")
HH8 0551PG0721M (announcement shows "HH80551PG0721MN")
CPU World identifies this CPU as an engineering sample, as designated by the "ES" on the identification etching. Below I've posted a partial page from the Ebay listing wherein I purchased the CPU. It states nearly exactly what the actual CPU ID is, except that the last three characters of QDOM are "xxx" on the auction announcement and the announcement has an "N" as the last digit of the identifier. Did this seller act honorable, by showing the "ES" in his add...and I should have just paid closer attention? For the sake of discussion, let's say it was my mistake, that the seller did not hide anything. OK, fine. Am I lucky? Does "engineering sample" mean the CPU multiplier(s) may be unlocked? Does it mean that as a pre-release CPU, it might be unstable or unrecognizable by the BIOS? Yes, I know I should probably wait to ask these questions until after testing the CPU, but my motherboard has not yet arrived. I want to start planning my strategy in case this turns out to be a poor performing CPU. (OK, no Intel slamming here. I know it won't keep pace with it's AMD counterpart. I also know it will heat half my house in the dead of winter.
) Here's a partial page from the auction advertisement:
The CPU has factory etched on it --
INTEL CONFIDENTIAL
QD OM ES MALAY (announcement shows "Qxxx ES")
HH8 0551PG0721M (announcement shows "HH80551PG0721MN")
CPU World identifies this CPU as an engineering sample, as designated by the "ES" on the identification etching. Below I've posted a partial page from the Ebay listing wherein I purchased the CPU. It states nearly exactly what the actual CPU ID is, except that the last three characters of QDOM are "xxx" on the auction announcement and the announcement has an "N" as the last digit of the identifier. Did this seller act honorable, by showing the "ES" in his add...and I should have just paid closer attention? For the sake of discussion, let's say it was my mistake, that the seller did not hide anything. OK, fine. Am I lucky? Does "engineering sample" mean the CPU multiplier(s) may be unlocked? Does it mean that as a pre-release CPU, it might be unstable or unrecognizable by the BIOS? Yes, I know I should probably wait to ask these questions until after testing the CPU, but my motherboard has not yet arrived. I want to start planning my strategy in case this turns out to be a poor performing CPU. (OK, no Intel slamming here. I know it won't keep pace with it's AMD counterpart. I also know it will heat half my house in the dead of winter.
) Here's a partial page from the auction advertisement: 0
Comments
It is also possible that he had no idea what he had to begin with.
The only way I'd have caught that is if I were researching what exact core and stepping it was, otherwise I doubt I'd have noticed it myself. I would think that you have a great deal of company in just looking at the primary specs and not delving too deeply into the details.
My guess is that you probably are, depending on a few key things. The most important would be: When was this chip sent out for review? If it was a very early sample it's a crapshoot as to whether it will be entirely stable at its rated speed. If it was a later sample you basically have one of the extremely rare unlocked P4's and will likely get more out of it than you paid for. The only real way to tell is to fire that baby up (perhaps a poor choice of words in light of the fact that it is a P4
username = scthoburn
INTEL CONFIDENTIAL
QD OM ES MALAY
i(M)(C)'04 HH8 0551PG0721M
L501B117 (04)
I agree that he was surreptitiously trying to sell an ES while letting those buying the proc know that it was in fact a very desirable CPU.
You got lucky in that no-one figured it out and tried to screw you out of it.
But we'll see. My motherboard should arrive tomorrow. Let's hope it's in good shape. It's a "refurbished" MSI 945P Neo-F from Newegg. Let's also hope my 3-yr-old Robanton 600watt PSU has enough stable power for this energy thirsty beast. I had quit using the Robanton with my overclocked P4s because in HT full load the 12v rail was dropping down a little low, even though it's rated at 25amps. Other than that, the PSU seemed to be very good.
There are still several ES models available on Ebay, selling prices generally around $160 I think.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LEO, YOU MAY JUST HAVE SCORED A SUPER DEAL. TURN ON THE GOOD OLD OVERCLOCKING MODE IN YOU AND STOP BIOTCHING! THAT'S AN ORDER!
/me hides behind the mountains in the fjords
BTW
I think Mack realizes he is only a short polar flight away.
My pair of 3.2 Nocona xeons were pricey and I expected a warranty when I purchased them.
Tex
Except it's not legal to resell those chips. Thats why no one advertises them as ES samples. Even if you had a NDA (non disclosure agreement) in place meaning you could possess them the NDA you signed promises you won't resell them or use them in a production system.
So your asking Leo to do something illegal. And other then MS I would guess Intel has the second most aggressive legal department as far as pursuing those that illegaly use or misuse) their products. And eBay is aggressive in trying to police that illegal products are not sold their and if your lucky they would just pull your auction and not turn you into Intel themselves.
Bad bad idea. If he has problems he is stuck or has to try and sell it as he aquired it which I think is sorta shady. And I just can't picture Leo doing anything of that sort knowing the kind or person he is.
Tex
I'd hang on to it I think you have a great deal if it works. ES are usually creme of the crop.
I have no idea how much the chip cost but is it worth having no Intel warranty if its not unlocked?
Tex
As far as I've ever heard the only difference between a production chip and and ES chip is the fact that they are unlocked. That and the cores are usually hand binned.
The upshot is that unless you're buying a CPU from a retailer you have no warranty rights anyways so you're on your own no matter what.
OK with that said, now we open up the Intel ES school for you. There are 2 kinds of Intel ES procs. First, they have the totally unlocked ES procs, which are rarer than hen's teeth. They are initial runs and may or may not overclock well, but should run at least at their rating with no problem. Secondly, and much more common, are the partially unlocked ES procs. These will be unlocked through a certain range of multipliers, say like 14 through 16 maybe. These ES procs are commonly sent out to major OEM's like Dell or HP and also to the motherboard manufacturers and they are used for qualifying motherboards and systems for use with this line of processors. The reason they do this is economics; it's much easier to send out 1 processor that can run a variety of speeds to qualify multiple speed versions of the same series proc than sending out a handful of different speed procs to all the different major OEM's and the motherboard manufacturers. I'm betting that the second series of partially unlocked proc is what you are getting. And that is good, as any multiplier that Intel has enabled on that chip will be stable at a 200 fsb and default vcore. So if the unlocked range is 14-16, then that processor can run at 820, 830 or 840 speeds (2.8, 3.0 or 3.2 GHz).
Prof, you are kind of off-base, with your statement about ES procs being a crapshoot on stability. They will be perfectly stable within their designed operating parameters. Since they mainly are used for motherboard and system qualification, they have to be. Now they might not overclock too well but at the default unlocked multi's they will be stable. Even the very early totally unlocked procs you will find now should be totally stable at it's rated speed, as very few totally unlocked ES procs will even get to leave an Intel lab. They got burnt in the P3 1.0 fiasco several years ago and they are a lot more cautious about something like that happening again, where they had to pull an entire new line because of instability.
If it's not DOA and you decide you don't want it, let me know, Lynn. I will take it off your hands.
At work we have experianced some instabilitys with early ES chips in the past.
Tex
How long ago, Tex? And also, some production motherboards won't play nice with an ES because of the unlocked or partially unlocked processors, especially server boards. As you well know, a server board generally isn't designed to do any overclocking and an unlocked multi can throw the bios a loop it doesn't know how to handle.
In any case, lets see some screenshots
Saying Intel will go after Leo for his chip is like saying Microsoft is going to go after every person who has an illegal copy of Windows XP! An ES chip is a once in a life time find unless you are able to score them from the manufacture. I know I got myself a few Pent 4 ES chips awhile ago from Intel... even than I wasn't prompted to sign a NDA or do anything legal! They said here is the chips! now take in mind I did give those space heaters back only because I am a huge AMD guy, but the fact is Leo if you keep the chip I am sure you will have no issues....and my ES chips were unlocked
I checked at the egg and they retail for $245 ...I'm sure they were probably a bit more a while back. Since he's not overclocking it's not necessary to have it unlocked. If it proves stable I think he's got a great deal on dual core.
I have to agree though if it is unlocked it would sure be more valuable ...
Quick comments --
Not concerned about lack of warranty. I've never experienced a CPU failure, AMD or Intel (or Cyrix
Good overclocker/unlocked multipliers? Sure, if I can overclock it and don't have to put it in a freezer to cool it, then yes, I will have some fun.
I'll post progress with this machine when I get all my parts in.