Best CPU waterblock.
I'm getting ready to purchase parts for my future WC system. I have the rad and pump selected, but what I'm not sure about is what the current best CPU block is.
The CPU it will be cooling will be an Athlon64, but if I could use it on my current Socket A CPU that would be a nice bonus.
The reviews I could find are all over the place, so any unbiased help would be much appreciated.
The CPU it will be cooling will be an Athlon64, but if I could use it on my current Socket A CPU that would be a nice bonus.
The reviews I could find are all over the place, so any unbiased help would be much appreciated.
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Comments
None yet, but I plan to get a 939 X2 in a few months.
I've heard a lot of good things about DD blocks, but then again I've heard a lot of good things about Swiftech blocks too.
If only Dansdata.com did the same kind of compairison review that he does for HSFs.
The new D-Tek blocks are very close to the storm in performance, especially the one with the multi-hole mid plate.
For a limited time the cheapest of the three new D-Tek's comes with all the accelerator plates.
I've got a lot of higher end h2o stuff avaliable including an a64 tdx if you are interested, shoot me a pm.
BTW, here's a link to Overclockers.com's waterblock test results page, which gives you c/w, and pressure drop in both psi and inches of water - http://www.overclockers.com/articles373/wbsum.asp
The apogee is a great simple block and I love it.
The storm is probably the best quality block you'll find but it is certainly more restrictive and pricey and wasn't designed for dual core although that doesn't mean it won't perform acceptionally. I have the utmost respect for stew (aka cathar).
Many are choosing the apogee over the storm because of the better price per performance. If you get this block be sure to open it and check for copper shavings ...mine didn't have any but someone reported having some at procooling when they first shipped.
The G4 is the storm and the G5 has a few more jets and is silver rather than copper. There is no G6 or G8. The G7 is $300 and has yet more jets.
Most of the above mentioned blocks come with universal brackets for just about any cpu/mobo configuration.
I know nothing about the DD blocks but I've read good things about them.
I would recommend the apogee over the mp-05 over the storm based on price because the performance difference is minute ...and because they offer the least flow restriction in that order AFAIK.
Did you get a radiator and pump yet?
http://www.procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=90
The key is head, not flow rate, (raw flow rate) the higher the head the less impact the restriction. This means a D5 will flow better through the same loop as the realatively low head 1250. Booyah.
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=12376
BigBen said: "Just going over the review one more time, there's a big reminder that this is a kit test, not a block test.
So while the temps appear to be the same (or better for Apogee), the flowrates are different. In fact, the flow rates for Storm are (roughly) 60% less.
The review is correct; they perform (essentially) equally well, with the same pump/rad combo.
We're still going to have to wait for a block comparison."
So ...increase head and the storm performs better ...increase flow and the apogee performs better. It's just relative to the design.
One thing I noticed they had uncovered in all of this is the fact that:
A. Apogee has the advantage with the IHS on.
B. Storm has the advantage with the IHS off.
C. The MP-05 is somewhere in between.
This is because the storm cooling pattern targets the die core. The apogee uses a flow through pin pattern that sweeps across the IHS. So both blocks employ different methods of cooling ...a lot depends on the target.
At the time I bought the apogee it was under $40 and half the cost of the storm. I knew I wouldn't remove my IHS unless I knew for a fact that I would see a performance gain. I figured I could always buy a storm later on if indeed the IHS removal would prove to benefit. In my case it won't happen with the current stepping that I have so I am satisfied with the apogee. I know that removing the IHS would give me about 5-10C better temps but the overclock would be no different and my warranty would be void. This will help resale I believe.
They are both wonderful blocks.
My point was that with a D5 (with over 10ft of head) the Storm will handily pwn the TDX or RBX on either the D5 or the 1250 Ehiem.
I'm not taking anything away from either of the D.D. blocks but my point is that while they were the beasts in late '04 through mid '05 there are better blocks out there.
And while I know the 120V pumps are generally cheaper than the D5 the named 120V pump is only marinally cheaper (if at all) and has the drawback of being 120V.
Kidding aside ...I don't know enough about the TDX and RBX.
My recommendation would be:
Apogee block
PA160 rad
Aerocool 120mm <20db 80cfm fan
D5 pump
1/2" hosing.
I'm not arguing that the Storm is a great block and is better than the RBX or TDX. But is it better than an RBX for $30, which is what I paid for the RBX I just got.
The moral of the story; there's different ways and different views to watercooling. Matt's way is the newest and greatest and my way is to buy the last gen stuff and save some bucks.
EDIT: BTW, thanks for the link to procooling, Matt. I just finished reading an extremely good article on testing methodology there. I now have them bookmarked.
Glad to hear that you like procooling, they're a pretty good site and they seem to be the one with the most cred among the big guns in the watercooling community. I've read both Cathar and Biohazard among others singing it's praises.
On an actual A64 DC rig though the Apogee is neck and neck with the Storm while the Storm STILL handily pwns the TDX and RBX.
Yes, Mack, I have done my homework.
Actually He was using a 3700+, my bad and I will conceed that point.
I am not doubting your knowledge at all and i see you edited from 150W to 80W and then finally 80 and 100W. I have a bunch of DD blocks coming my way so i am very interested to see how bad it should perform compared to the Apogee and Storm from the sound sound of you.
Edit// I have been using a 3800+ DC on a Swiftech waterblock that isn't made for the newer generation of cpu's, but it still performs pretty good. At the same voltage, it gives the same cooling abilities as a Thermaltake Big Typhoon within 2c loaded temps. It's totally different on a singlecore however where a waterblock gives a bit better performance because it produces a lot less heat and wattage. I don't have any scientific proof of this, but this is what i have seen personally. Both with and without IHS on the cpu.
//Edit: Actually, do you have the Swiftech Apogee and Storm at your disposal? If so I'm interested to see your results as well although from everything I've read the results will be in the neighborhood of 1-3*C. I know that that doesn't sound like a super difference but bear in mind that the TDX and RBX get about the same results versus the Maze 4 CPU block but does that mean we should all just abandon the newer blocks and find Maze 4's on eBay? I wouldn't think so.
If you're looking for the best performing then you want the best yield in terms of performance, not something that's 1 or 2 or 3 degrees worse, at least that's what I generally associate with the term "best" being thrown out.
The long and short of it is that at the same flow rates the Storm has the highest (or lowest depending on how you look at it) delta between heat transfered to the water and heat produced by the source. It also manages to keep that delta very close as flow rates are reduced so that even at X flow it's able to best other blocks at Y flow which doubly reinforces it's being dubbed "best". The charts speak for themselves on that account.
Now, what this all boils down to is this, would this be a good reason to buy a Storm or Apogee if you have a TDX or RBX and you're looking for major gains? Nope not at all unless you got either block dirt cheap. Would it be a good reason to buy either over a TDX or RBX for a new rig? Yes indeed if you're looking for max performance from your loop. Would it be a reason to buy either of the Swifty's over the D.D.'s if you've got a Maze 4? It's here that we get to the big reason why it would be the wisest choice to go Swifty, since you'd see the biggest gain from Maze 4 to Storm/Apogee versus Maze 4 to TDX/RBX the smart money would be spent on blocks that widen the gap the most, do you not agree?
That being said, I'm running a TC-4 which is a cousin to the Maze 4 in pure performance and if I'm upgrading my loop either one of the Swiftech blocks makes the most sense in terms of results per dollar spent, To spend $50 on a new TDX and get a 2*C benefit versus $50 for a used Storm or a new Apogee and getting a 4-5*C result makes very little sense to go with the TDX.
If unable to get a Storm though I'd rather go with the MP-05 for $50 new versus the Apogee since I really dislike the design of the latter block.
I agree that the Storm probably, but arguably, is the best Waterblock out there and the OP of this thead actually asked for the best block, not the cheapest or bang for buck.
From my point of view:
How much is a new Storm and a Japanese iwaki pump (storm clearly performs best with the iwakis)? Compare that to a RBX and a D5 pump which will be within a few (1-3 degrees on 100W+ load of the above mentioned combo.
This was about the time the apogee appeared and all hell broke loose. I was very active in that forum doing research at the time.
Heck if anyone is interested I may have my whitewater up for sale soon. It performs well I just never could get used to the 2 outlets.
Anywhoo, I'm planning on buying the D5 pump (or the Swiftech MCP655, they appear to be the same pump with a different name) and the PA160 radiator, which I modded my case to fit.
I just purchased an Opteron 165 and an ASRock Dual-SATA2 mobo (I like a challenge