PC Cuts Out Under Hard Usage

xavsheriffxavsheriff London, England
edited February 2006 in Hardware
Hi, I am a new member... hooray!
I am no expert but like to dable and through being a wannabe designer have little choice but to upgrade and play around with my pc's all the time.
I am having similar problems.
I've had my PC for about 2 years.
I run a AMD 3000+ 1.4ghz with an epox ultra 400 motherboard (i think)
512 ddrRam
radion 9200 128mb graphics card
CD RW
CDROM
and normal floppy
Dont know the power supply stats but can check.

It cuts out.. no blue screen just dead with front light still on. Leave it for a while and then it fires up again. Used to be once in a blue moon now happens more often usually a few times within a day. I thought it might be overheating but this sounds more likely... it doesn't seem to correlate with using processor hungry programs such as photoshop and 3dsmax...plus i dont even get the "windows wasn't shut down properly message" any clues??????
xav

Comments

  • sgtwilliamssgtwilliams Grand Rapids MI
    edited January 2006
    I tend to go with the Power Supply also. especially seeing that your 6800 is 3 days old. When something starts going wrong your best bet is to isolate what has changed recently. That new card is a power hog and that all points to the PSU.

    Jimborae Completely off topic but what the heck is a "Mosside crack tart"
  • ArmoArmo Mr. Nice Guy Is Dead,Only Aqua Remains Member
    edited January 2006
    one thing you can do is check the event log of the machine, right click My Computer and goto manage, and under event viewer you might be able to see any errors it gets before it shuts down, XP has an inherent flaw that makes it restart instantly where in the past it would display a BSOD, if you are having event in the even log, i suggest turning this fuction of XP off

    right click my computer and go to properties, choose advanced, and under startup and recovery settings uncheck automaticly restart of system failure, this will force the machine to give you a BSOD untill you restart the machine at your descrecion ( like Win98 )

    just to give some PSU stats, i use a Enermax 535W psu and run 6 hard drives, a 6800gt, and an X2 processor, so your dont need alot of power, just good quality, like Antec, Enermax and if you can afford it PC Power and Cooling.
  • GobblesGobbles Ventura California
    edited January 2006
    I just had a machine do something simular... My file server would boot to windows then just die. I would have to unplug it to get it to boot. I brought here to work, yanked the guts and put it into a cube case with a redundant PSU that has 2 seperate 250w hotswap units. I then replaced the dead 400w sparkle with a 300w Antec and both machines run like a top. My wife was pleased when I went from 2 machines in my office to 3 plus the laptop. (not really)
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX Icrontian
    edited January 2006
    uhh, my 6800GT doesnt have two power conectors...but that is aside from the point, get a good strong psu. like an ocz, or antec, both are great brands.
  • xavsheriffxavsheriff London, England
    edited January 2006
    Hi, I am a new member... hooray!
    I am no expert but like to think i know more than average and being a wannabe designer have little choice but to upgrade and play around with my pc all the time.
    I am having similar problems to superfly
    I've had my PC for about 2 years.
    I run a AMD 3000+ with an epox ultra 400 motherboard (i think)
    512 ddrRam
    radion 9200 128mb graphics card
    Maxtor 7200 120gb hard drive
    CD RW
    CDROM
    and a floppy
    **Had a look at the power supply, (think i got ripped off here, It a sun pro? 350max watts**

    It cuts out.. no blue screen just dead with front light still on. Leave it for a while and then it fires up again. Used to be once in a blue moon now happens more often usually a few times within a day. I thought it might be overheating but this sounds more likely... it doesn't seem to correlate with using processor hungry programs such as photoshop, rhino, 3dsmax...plus i dont even get the "windows wasn't shut down properly message" any clues?????? I think i will change the power supply, now scared to turn on my pc in fear i will lose everything. Got 2 years of work, mostly backed up, but i am coming to the end of my degree and really need this computer to last me another year! (AT LEAST)
    also shud I run a mem test? is there any risk?
    xav
  • madmatmadmat
    edited January 2006
    It sounds like a shoddy PSU. The problem now is that the new dual 12V rail PSUs don't cope well with high crossloads from older PCs since they pull most of their wattage from the 3.3V and 5V rails and the ATX 2.0 PSUs are designed for a bigger load on the 12V rails.

    Look for a PSU of quality MFG that features a single 12V rail. I'd suggest looking for a used one first, try eBay and look for an Antec TruePower series, not TrueII. You might also find one lurking around a brick and mortar (real world) store if you really want a new PSU.

    After the PSU has been replaced run memtest to make sure that the memory is still in decent shape then do a bit of stress testing to check the CPU and mobo. If it passes all of those then you're in good shape.
  • xavsheriffxavsheriff London, England
    edited January 2006
    great , i'l see what i can find and get back! stress testing?? what is that , just litterally run loads of apps etc?

    Cheers
  • madmatmadmat
    edited January 2006
    Run Prime95, or SiSoft Sandra Burn in. they hit the CPU pretty hard. You can also download 3D Mark '03 and run it looped, that's also a good CPU stresser.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited January 2006
    EDIT: I cut the original (top) post and subsequent posts from the thread where they originally resided. That was a 2004 thread. Thought the new thread here would get more attention, as it should be.
  • madmatmadmat
    edited January 2006
    EDIT: He's started a thread about this just a couple of threads down in this very same subforum, maybe a merger is in order?

    Linkage: http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41939
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited January 2006
    xavsheriff, please don't use more than one thread for advice on the same problem. It confuses people and causes those wishing to help you extra work. It also clutters the forums. I understand you are a new member, so don't sweat it. We're just trying to make things more efficient.

    I've consolidated the posts from your previous stand-alone thread and the 2004 thread in which you posted.


    Leonardo
    Moderator
  • DonutDonut Maine New
    edited January 2006
    Could you possibly download Motherboard Monitor.http://short-media.com/download.php?dc=47
    so we could take a look at your voltages and your temps?
  • xavsheriffxavsheriff London, England
    edited January 2006
    Donut wrote:
    Could you possibly download Motherboard Monitor.http://short-media.com/download.php?dc=47
    so we could take a look at your voltages and your temps?

    DONE --- they seem very high! (i think)
    Case 39
    CPU 80 and seems to be rising!
    WHAT SHOULD I DO?

    BTW sorry to all for posting too many threads.. was an accident. wont happen again. Cheers for all your advice
    Xav
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited January 2006
    If those temps are Celsius, than you are correct. That's terrible. It would appear that your case is hardly breathing at all. Tell us about your case. Intake and exhaust fans? Your system is definitely too hot if those readings are correct.

    The good news is that it would appear that your system has shut itself down to protect against heat-induced damage. We can find a solution for you, I'm sure. Have you tried running your computer with the case side off? That would be a good test to see if indeed heat is the problem. (But I'm already pretty sure heat is the bad boy, here.)
    BTW sorry to all for posting too many threads.. was an accident.
    Don't sweat it. We still love you.
  • xavsheriffxavsheriff London, England
    edited January 2006
    yes celsius.. 1 exhaust fan on back of psu, and one on the side, and there is a fan on my CPU
    do you want brands?
    i am gonna power down and move to the lap top this is really worrying me. brb
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited January 2006
    When you say there's a fan behind the PSU, are you talking about the the fan that is integral to the PSU? Do you mean that the case itself does not have a fan in the back?

    It would appear your case is not adequately cooled, not even at the minimal level. I am pretty certain we've found the problem, and it's pretty simple. You do not have enough cool air flowing through your case. It could be also that your CPU's heatsink/fan unit has lost efficiency. Is it clean? If it's full of dust and lint, clean it out.

    Can you post us a picture of your case, or provide a model name or link for it? We could probably come up with some cooling advice for you. Also, have tried running your computer with the case side off yet?
  • xavsheriffxavsheriff London, England
    edited January 2006
    ok ... excellent to actually get some advice, i just sit in my studio thinking that it is gonna blow up. Yes was talking about the intergral PSU fan. No there is no rear fan. I was un aware of this as I was given this PC by my bro when he dropped out of college. As far as i know a local guy built it for them and shafted them a bit on the goods. I'm sure the case is just as bad as the rest!

    Also it was origionally for music production and i therfore run an audigy zs platinum inboard and outboard sound card, would this be processor hungry? and heat it up more? here are some pics.

    Havent tried with the side off as I am now on a different pc. Do u think this obviously buget PSU also needs replacing?
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited January 2006
    We are going to get you running, and running well! Look at the grill on the back of your case. That is designed to accommodate two 80mm exhaust fans. There are even screw holes for mounting the fans. You simply mount two fans, four screws each, and connect them to a spare connector coming from your power supply unit. Whoever built that computer was not thorough. Your system is indeed overheating. Let's try cooling solutions before we move on to the PSU.

    Step 1: run your computer with the case side off. If the seizing stops or abates, we can be fairly certain that overheating was the sole or prime cause of your problems.

    Step 2: if the case side off shows that better cooling will improve your computer's operation, then you need to install two 80mm case fans directed for exhaust at the back of the case. You can get 80mm case fans from CompUSA, Frye's (sp?), other computer retailers, and a 1000 places online. Recommend online as you will pay one-half to one-third of what you'll pay at CompUSA.

    Step 3. if problems still persist after improved cooling, we'll take it from there.
  • xavsheriffxavsheriff London, England
    edited January 2006
    excellent will do all of the above. I always suspected over heating, my student house in the cold east end of london last year was practically sub zero, (thou not wuite Alaska) maybe this helped
    my studio is now in a hot loft conversion. I will try some uk online shops, ebuyer and dabs I find to be reasonable. I'm with you on the online value... if only you could tell my girlfriend/ parents etc etc that they are always buying on the high street ! its a rip off.!!
    Thanks very much will let you know how i get on... !!!
  • DonutDonut Maine New
    edited January 2006
    I would also recommend a can of compressed air, as it looks like a layer of dust on your add-in cards. The heatsink can't be much better. Don't forget the back, bottom of the psu. (wherever the intakes are for that)
  • xavsheriffxavsheriff London, England
    edited January 2006
    ok have removed side and have directed the a fan into the case. now running at 55 degrees C and the case temp is 30
    Obviously alot better!
    I'l order those fans first thing, any sugestions on the type or are they much the same?

    Xav
  • xavsheriffxavsheriff London, England
    edited January 2006
    cheers donut, think your right cpu now at 66 case temp 29... do i have to remove the cpu to get at that?
  • madmatmadmat
    edited January 2006
    No, just blow it out really good...
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited January 2006
    There are big differences in 80mm case fans. But all the 80mm fans should fit your case. The differences are primarily in the fans' performance: volume of air moved, measured in cubic feet per minute (CFM), and sound level, measured in decibels (dBa). I would look for something right in the middle. Or better yet, get the cheapest fans you can find, until you know exactly what you want. Canvass friends - maybe someone has some old fans lying around. If you were near me, I'd give you a couple. Check out UK eBay as well, you can probably pick up a boxful of fans for next to nothing.
    now running at 55 degrees C and the case temp is 30
    That is much better. But if you run really intense applications that raise your CPU utilization high, it still may get too hot. Clean out the CPU's heatsink and fan as advised, and then test again with the case side off. You may need to remove the heatsink and apply some quality thermal transfer paste between the heatsink and the CPU top. Off the shelf and even custom built machines usually have inferior, cheap quality thermal paste on the CPU. Quality paste can make a huge difference. But then, let's take this step by step.
  • xavsheriffxavsheriff London, England
    edited February 2006
    cleaned out heat sink, 2 x 80mm exhaust fans on there way, 32cfm and i expect bloody loud but they seemed to have better specs and were only about 4GBP !

    CPU now running at 30ish with side off! phew! the cpu fan is making a funny noise may need to replace that as well sounds as if its on its way out.
    What temp should i be aiming for once i have fitted the fans?
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    and sound level, measured in decibels (dBa)
    Did the site you ordered from list a dBa rating for the fans? You'll just have to wait and see what their volume is. Some of the 80mm fans have a low volume of sound but a high pitch. You didn't pay much, so it won't be a big deal if you have to replace them later. If your CPU heatsink's fan is making noise, you need to take immediate action. Turn off your computer, remove the fan, and peel back the label on the spindle top. Most fans have a small hole under the label. Drip a little light machine oil into that hole. If the bad sound is gone, you should be good for a while. But were it my machine, I'd replace that fan right away. Do you know what model of heatsink you have? Also, have you considered removing the CPU heatsink and replacing the thermal interface paste? That could net you several degrees temperature reduction. I'd wager strongly that the computer builder used the cheapest paste he could find.

    EDIT: Also check the northbridge heatsink's fan. The northbridge is a chip just south of the CPU. It looks much like the CPU HS/F but is smaller. Those little fans tend to burn out much more frequently than do CPU heatsink fans. Smaller fans seem to have shorter lives. While your computer is running, put your finger on each fan's spindle, one at a time to stop the fan, to determine which one is making noise. I'm assuming it's a squealing noise. Service the bad fan. I've serviced those little north bridge fans before and was able to use them for months afterward. Some of them are the product of very poor factory quality control and were just not properly lubricated when they were manufactured.
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