Yet another "i'm new to a64, please help" thread

primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' BoopinDetroit, MI Icrontian
edited February 2006 in Hardware
Okay it's definitely time to upgrade and the opportunity to move into a pci-e system has presented itself, so... without further ado:

I am still stuck in the NF7-S / 2600+ era. I have 2x512 Corsair TwinX PC3200 memory, which I hope is still valid. I'd like to move into 2gb, and I think I could if I sold the TwinX that I have right now and apply the profit towards a 2gb kit... But it's not a neccessity.

I'd REALLY like a dual core opteron or A64. So, what's the current "best price/performance" motherboard/processor combo out there? I think all I need are the mobo and processor - I have a really good antec PSU, a 250gb sata drive, and a PCI-E video card. Oh, I also need the heatsink. I have a SLK-947U for my mobile barton 2600+, which I have been informed cannot come with me to my next platform :(

Suggestions?

Comments

  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    I recommend Asus A8R32 ...it will be out real soon and is already in the process of reviews.

    If you're not too concerned about clocking over 2.6 to 2.7 ghz I'd recommend the Opteron. I haven't seen one that won't do somewhere in between at least. Either the 165 or the 170 ...I prefer the 170 x10 multi. The large cache is great too.

    Also whatever X2 with the larger cache x10 should be just as good at everything. Most say that the larger cache doesn't matter but Omega has some fpu data that proves otherwise.

    heatsink = big typhoon.

    One thing for sure ...if you want cool you're really in for it!

    edit:\ if you want links there's tons ...skim thru the first and last page whenever you get a chance. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86139&page=10

    fast 2gb kits pt 2 - http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2676

    rd580 - http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2609
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    wow.. ~$420 for the processor alone... eep. Is that the cheapest I can get into dual core with?
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Prime, fortunately for AMD, their successess of the last two years in the performance arena has provided them the ability to charge premiums for performance. That is unfortunate for us.

    I think your only hope of finding a dual core AMD for a reasonable price is finding an auction CPU at Ebay before others do when an auction is ending. The alternative would be Intel dual core. The D 8xx can be found for fairly cheap at auction and at Ebay storefronts. The best deals are the 8xx series (new) bundled with Intel motherboards. These board are not good overclcockers, but are rock solid stable and reportedly piece of cake to set up. The 8xx series do run hot, but if you aren't overclcocking, the Intel stock heatsinks will work just fine. I haven't priced the new 65nm Pressler dual cores, the 9xx series. Their entry is one of the reasons the 8XX series is so affordable. With either series of Intel though, you'd have to move up to DDR2.

    If you wish to stay AMD, understandable, and you want to keep costs low, you might just want to wait until the M2 series comes out. At that time you should be able to match AMD superior performance with modest prices, if you don't mind being one generation behind with a used X2 or Opteron (165/170) dual core.
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    The X2 3800+ can be had for a 'measly' $300 or so... still OC's to about 2.6, but has less cache than the Opty.

    Your TwinX will work just fine with the current gen of A64s. In fact, it might be a good match. I've got a gig of TwinX that I had paired with my S754 3000+ and it did better timings with the A64 than it did with a Barton chip.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Here's a cpu shopping guide link with all of the current prices.
    x2 3800+ is around $295 and opteron 165 is around $316.

    http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=2677

    If you go on ebay you may shat your pants when you see what they're getting for great steppings.

    A8R-MVP is a good $100 mobo btw ...I'll probably see mine when the A8R32-MVP comes out.
  • TheSmJTheSmJ
    edited February 2006
    I bought both my mobo and Opteron for under $400.

    How much were you planning on spending Prime?
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    I bought both my mobo and Opteron for under $400.
    That's really good. In my book, that's economical. Which Opteron, which motherboard? Was this retail, auction, private sale? (Inquiring minds want to know. :tongue2: )
  • TheSmJTheSmJ
    edited February 2006
    The mobo and CPU in my sig (Opteron 165 and 939Dual-SATA2) came to just a tad under $400. I purchased both from Mwave.com. The motherboard was $65, while the CPU was ~$320.

    I'm very happy with this motherboard. Especially since it OCs well, can use either PCIe or AGP video cards (or both at once!), and is upgradeable to the future M2 socket series of CPUs using a daughterboard which will be available from ASRock. It's the perfect transitional/upgradable board in my book, and the only thing you really lose in comparison to higher-end, more expensive boards is SLI.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    For someone who wants to keep using their DDR (not DDR2) and anticipates an upgrade to M2, that's a good deal. Which leads me ask, M2 will be compatible with DDR? I thought M2 would be DDR2. Or is it dependent on the motherboard?
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited February 2006
    Leonardo wrote:
    For someone who wants to keep using their DDR (not DDR2) and anticipates an upgrade to M2, that's a good deal. Which leads me ask, M2 will be compatible with DDR? I thought M2 would be DDR2. Or is it dependent on the motherboard?
    M2 (socket 940) is DDR2 only. I would ignore the M2 and DD2 until AMD's 65nm process is up and running. The 2nd gen boards should be out by then (never buy 1st gen hardware....)

    Prime, here's a (short) list of choices I did for Winga earlier today.... The non SLI versions of these mobos are $20-40 cheaper
    Mobo Choices A good mobo is the bedrock foundation of your system Pick one that has the feature set/Price you want.
    These are all good Boards and the DFI LP series and the Asus SLI series are Great boards. Many have reported itting HTT300+ with these boards. Expect to hit ~HTT275-300mhz with the SLI Infinity and EPox mobos (Still good IMO)

    Denmark Core Opteron Dual-Core CPU
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    I personally think the dual core opty's are the way to go. If on a budget get the 165 and the EPoX EP-9NPAJ SLI board Omega listed. That will come to just a little more than getting the 170. But like csimon mentioned, the 170 with the 10x multi is sweet. I have also seen where the extra L2 folds faster. On my previous 3700 SD @ 2.8 vs my 3200 Venice @ 2.85 the 3700 with the 1Mb L2 folded noticeably faster. I have also had my hands on an X2 3800, Opty 175 and now have an Opty 170. I am now just getting my 170 up and running and feel while not the cheapest it is the best of the lot. The DFI LP UT nF4 Ultra-D is still a viable board for around $129 if you want a little more without much more cost.
  • TheSmJTheSmJ
    edited February 2006
    Leonardo wrote:
    For someone who wants to keep using their DDR (not DDR2) and anticipates an upgrade to M2, that's a good deal. Which leads me ask, M2 will be compatible with DDR? I thought M2 would be DDR2. Or is it dependent on the motherboard?


    The daughterboard contains both the M2 CPU socket and DDR2 slots.
  • QeldromaQeldroma Arid ZoneAh Member
    edited February 2006
    prime, I'm not sure what constitutes a "refurb" in CPUs, but I did find an X2 "cheap". May want to PM Tom if you're interested.

    3800+ X2 at the Egg for $270 Today
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    As for a CPU grab either a Venice core 3200+ or 3500+ or Venus Core Opteron S939...
    Not sure a 3200+ is much of an upgrade over a Barton 2600, is it?
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    I'm probably gonna shoot for an opteron 170. As for the motherboard, do you guys really think I should wait for the A8R32? What's the advantage of waiting?

    Also: I'm out of the loop on thermal compound - AS5, or Ceramique?
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    If you plan on going SLI you should wait. But if you are not it won't really matter that much.

    AS5 all the way dude!
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    i mean, who knows, maybe I will go SLI at some future point, so perhaps I will wait ...

    How long before this fabled board comes out? :D
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited February 2006
    The Asus A8R32 is a CrossFire board not SLI
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited February 2006
    Leonardo wrote:
    Not sure a 3200+ is much of an upgrade over a Barton 2600, is it?
    That CPU list was for Winga (now edited) but a A64 3200+ is a nice upgrade from a XP-M 2600+. The Athlon 64 Comparison link in my sig has a XP 3200+ score in with the A64s that were available at the time. The difference is noticable even at stock clocks much less OC'd to the same speeds.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    I noticed the difference right away when I got my first 64 rig and went from an NF7-S /2400M OC'ed to2.5 to a 3000 Winnie @ stock speed.
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    My 3000+ Socket 754 chip was subjectively 'smoother' than any Barton I've run.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    primesuspect wrote:
    i mean, who knows, maybe I will go SLI at some future point, so perhaps I will wait ...

    How long before this fabled board comes out? :D

    Brian sorry for the delayed response.

    Don't think of it as crossfire or sli ...probably 90% of ppl who own those capabilities don't even use them. It's like having the raid capabilities and not using them.

    To answer your question the rd580 is shceduled to be out this month ...I have the feeling it will be either this week or next week.

    Whether you need the board or not is a question you can ask yourself. It really depends on what you want to get out of the board. The A8R-MVP may be sufficient as it is for most people who aren't concerned about overclocking their processor to the extreme. I think you can achieve more than adequate overclocks at the supplied vcore. Depending on steppings you are likelyto be able to do better that what I'm getting at 2662cpu/242mem.

    Here's a low-down on the A8R-MVP shorcomings that may or may not effect you at all:

    1. The vcore is limited to max at processor core default plus +.10v. Which means that the max vcore you will achieve will be 1.40v (opteron default usually) +.10v so a total of 1.50v max. Do you really want to push this $400 processor any farther? I'll like to my thread on this board so you can see that I have gotten the same or better proc overclock that anyone else here has gotten with the same opteron steppings.

    2. I can embellish more on this if you like but basically after or around 260 htt the 1t command rate is useless. If you talk to Wesley Fink over at anandtech he can tell you that he never even noticed the speed difference once he got past 260 htt and 260 mem freq.

    3. By not using the soundmax drivers you can achieve 5 more mhz stability on the mem. I don't use the drivers personally as I find the winxp default drivers adequate.

    The reason I posted the "shortfalls" of this board was to give you a headsup on what to expect from the A8R32. Rumor has it that Asus will offer options in overvolting that will allow more voltage. You may see a little more overclock and higher temps from the processor. Also, the 1t issue is supposedly fixed but the only difference that I see is in the latency timing ...other than that the bandwidth is the same. I find performace better at 2t but that may be due to the issue.

    One other thing ...you will probably find the A8R-MVP for under $100 whereas we're looking at about $175 or maybe more for the A8R32.

    So glance through my A8R-MVP thread and sig and if you have specific questions or if you want to see any particular benches or anything let me know I'll be more than happy to obligue. Keep in mind that this board is being 100% stable and a rock solid performer and overclocker.

    Here you go ...http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42135

    I hope Prometheus (Wes) doesn't mind me quoting him from xtremesystems ...but this is what he had to say about the A8R-MVP issues.

    "As I said in the AT review, the board reads the CPU ID and sets the vCore range based on the ID. With 90nm x2 that's to 1.45V. I reported the overclock setting as 0.2V, but we measure more like around 0.1V on the several boards we have measured - so max of 1.55V.

    The upcoming RD580 version has added MANY voltage and OC options. Over Voltage on the RD580 version is auto, disabled, +100mv (0.1V), +200mv (0.2V). All the other overvoltage controls now have full ranges on the RD580 version - generally 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5V instead of just on and off like the RD480 version. The 1T issue is also fixed on the RD580 version."

    So to sum it up ...even if I had more voltage available I doubt seriously that my core would go any higher as I know no one with this stepping that has gotten any higher with more voltages available to them.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Okay, I settled on the regular A8R-MVP and an Opteron 170 with a big typhoon :)

    Thanks for the input! I'm a couple of years behind the curve as you can see, so now I'm back in the game :rarr:
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    A8R-MVP and an Opteron 170 with a big typhoon
    Knockout combination. Excellent. You are really going to be impressed with the Typhoon. It's just amazing. Looks pretty cool lurking behind a plexiglass window too, as if it were contemplating jumping out and taking over the room.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    primesuspect wrote:
    Okay, I settled on the regular A8R-MVP and an Opteron 170 with a big typhoon :)

    Thanks for the input! I'm a couple of years behind the curve as you can see, so now I'm back in the game :rarr:

    Cool ...well when you get it setup get my attention if you need any help. The board has a few quirks and workarounds but you should be able to unleash the beast with a little patience! :rockon:
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