X1900XT or 7800GTX?

deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
edited February 2006 in Hardware
So...I've ordered a load of computer parts, but I'm waiting on an opty 170 to come back into stock... so I have a chance to change my order. I originally ordered the XFX 256MB 7800GTX (490MHz core) because I currently have a 6800GT and it's a cool card. Anyway, browsing the site I see they have a sapphire x1900XT 512MB for the same price. So, should I switch? If I do, would an ATI chipset board be a better match than my current choice (MSI diamond plus)?
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Comments

  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    I believe the 1900is currently the fastest card out right now. The 1900XTX being the fastest, and the XT being second fastest. But I think the XTX is a waste of money becuase it's not much of a performance increase.
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited February 2006
    That's what I thought, I'm just a bit wary of sticking an ATI card in an Nforce4 board... I know they work fine in theory, just wanted to check that was the case in reality.
  • GrayFoxGrayFox /dev/urandom Member
    edited February 2006
    X1900 or wait for the next nvidia card.
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited February 2006
    well I switched to the x1900xt, I'll let you know how it performs next week :)
  • lemonlimelemonlime Canada Member
    edited February 2006
    Should be a killer card deicist.. don't worry about running ATI in a nvidia based board.. they behave nicely together :)
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited February 2006
    deicist wrote:
    well I switched to the x1900xt, I'll let you know how it performs next week :)
    Good choice! An X1900XT 512MB over a 7800GTX 256MB was a no brainer

    According to The Inquirer, Nvidia's Nextgen G71 will have to run at 700mhz+ to beat the X1900XTX
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    So.... gonna sell that 6800GT for a nice price? Gonna hook a fellow up!?
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited February 2006
    Sorry dude, my flatmate is getting my A64 3200 with the 6800, and my girlfriend is getting his PC (which I actually own) :D
  • GobblesGobbles Ventura California
    edited February 2006
    I think the choice now is more along the lines of do you want to go dual cards in the future, if so I think nvidia is a better choice. If you plan to stay single card then the 1900 is an awesome choice.
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited February 2006
    I think by the time I can afford another card the top end single card solution will offer better performance 2 of todays cards... so I'm not too concerned about either dual card solution.
  • rykoryko new york
    edited February 2006
    deicist wrote:
    I think by the time I can afford another card the top end single card solution will offer better performance 2 of todays cards... so I'm not too concerned about either dual card solution.

    you sir are a very wise man....look past all the marketing hype and you will be fine!!!

    and btw i agree that right now the x1900xt 512mb is a better choice than the 7800gtx 256mb. enjoy!
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Nice system you've got cooking there, Deicist. Opteron 170? Hmm, I'm gonna have to watch my back on the Folding@Home rankings. :grumble: (Just be glad my wife watches the household finances so closely, because I'd be counter-attacking with another dual core rig. If, if....nah, I can't hide another computer. Leo smacks himself to return to reality.)
    my flatmate is getting my A64 3200 with the 6800, and my girlfriend is getting his PC (which I actually own)

    Sounds like you control some kind of neighborhood syndicate. What, they all keep you stocked with Scotch and ale or something? :scratch:
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited February 2006
    Nah, I'm just the resident geek :) Actually it was my GF's fault that I decided to upgrade, she wanted a new PC so rather than buy her one I decided to buy myself one and let everything else trickle down...which is lucky because I've been trying to justify an upgrade to myself for months :D
  • V-PV-P State College, PA Member
    edited February 2006
    i wish i had enough for a 1900. geez........ dont worry about the ati-nvidia thing. im runnin a X850 with nvidia ulatra 4 and its like a dream. how much you cuttin your pocket for with that 1900????? ATI ALL THE WAY!!! BTW, i have a question - is athlon 64 better or opt.? i thought opt was sorta for low end systems and notebooks?!? must be mistaken..... whatever the sys you guys help me build works great and i sent pics to deathwish if you guys wanna see them
  • MAGICMAGIC Doot Doot Furniture City, Michigan Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    my 7800gtx oced a bit and i can play everything on high and run smoothly, ide suggest it.
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited February 2006
    SCAR wrote:
    BTW, i have a question - is athlon 64 better or opt.? i thought opt was sorta for low end systems and notebooks?!? must be mistaken..... whatever the sys you guys help me build works great and i sent pics to deathwish if you guys wanna see them
    Opterons are AMD Server CPUs and are it's top graded chips. Lesser CPUs become Athlon X2s, 64s and Semprons. All Single Core Opterons have 1MB L2 cache and the DualCores have 2x1MB L2 cache.

    Clock for Clock (in general) Opterons will run cooler, use less power and OC further than AMD's consumer series CPUs
  • jradminjradmin North Kackalaki
    edited February 2006
    Omega65 wrote:
    Good choice! An X1900XT 512MB over a 7800GTX 256MB was a no brainer

    According to The Inquirer, Nvidia's Nextgen G71 will have to run at 700mhz+ to beat the X1900XTX

    Just caught this thread and needed to reply.

    Upping the GPU/GDDR speed on the card does not make it a preformance win. Thats actually a functionality loss on ATI's part because their card is nothing innovative like the 7800 series was. They basically slapped on some more memory and knocked up the core speed. Hell anyone can do that, and its not worth the $$ to go buy a catch-up card from anyone.

    All those benchmarks they did showed the same thing that has been happening for years. Nvidia = Pixel Shader ATI = Vertex. What ATI needs to do, instead of scrounging for ways to catch up to the market after coming in late is to actually make a revelotionary card that puts Nvidia in the wake.

    Wait for the 7900 series. Supposedly they are going to be "cheaper" then the 7800s....yet better.
  • rykoryko new york
    edited February 2006
    i don't know how you can say there's nothing innovative on ati's x1900xt(x).

    48 pixel shaders isn't innovative?

    and the x1900xt is the fastest card on the planet right now....so how does that not equal a perfomance win?

    i agree that the architecture isn't groundbreaking, but i say whatever works to get the consumers the fastest card available. there's nothing wrong with tweaking a design---i mean the 7900 is basically gonna be a suped-up version of the 7800, so does that mean it is any less of a card? i think not.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    I still lean towards the 7800GTX, because it's $500.. Not $650, and highly competitive. I seriously don't believe a few percent is worth $150.
  • rykoryko new york
    edited February 2006
    maybe $500 for the 256mb 7800gtx version....can't even find the 512mb versions anywhere....even out of stock they are around $700.

    and the x1900xtx is around $595 (not $650)...while the x1900xt can be found for just over $500.

    so for $500 you can have a 512mb x1900xt or a 256mb 7800gtx. seems like a no brainer to me.
  • KhaosKhaos New Hampshire
    edited February 2006
    I'm confused...

    You can get a 1900XT for less than a 7800GTX 512MB (Assuming you can find one).

    And the 1900XT spanks the 7800GTX.

    What's the issue here? Newegg is selling the PowerColor 1900X's for a little under $500 if you can catch a MIR, or about $530 without one.

    The lowest I've seen a 1900XTX go is $549 after a MIR, but I'm not a fan of MIR and the XT is the exact same card except for clock... We all know that that can be remedied in short order.
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited February 2006
    Khaos wrote:
    I'm confused...

    You can get a 1900XT for less than a 7800GTX 512MB (Assuming you can find one).

    And the 1900XT spanks the 7800GTX.

    What's the issue here? Newegg is selling the PowerColor 1900X's for a little under $500 if you can catch a MIR, or about $530 without one.

    The lowest I've seen a 1900XTX go is $549 after a MIR, but I'm not a fan of MIR and the XT is the exact same card except for clock... We all know that that can be remedied in short order.
    Supply and demand. Nvidia cant make as many 7800GTX 512MB as people want. And even though a Single X1900XTX is faster than a single 7800GTX 512MB, SLI 7800s outgun Crossfire X1900s.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Omega65 wrote:
    And even though a Single X1900XTX is faster than a single 7800GTX 512MB, SLI 7800s outgun Crossfire X1900s.

    Oh you haven't seen the A8R32-MVP review yet have you?
    Which bench would you like to see? ;D

    Sorry I just had to throw that in there! :D
  • jradminjradmin North Kackalaki
    edited February 2006
    ryko wrote:
    i don't know how you can say there's nothing innovative on ati's x1900xt(x).

    48 pixel shaders isn't innovative?

    and the x1900xt is the fastest card on the planet right now....so how does that not equal a perfomance win?

    i agree that the architecture isn't groundbreaking, but i say whatever works to get the consumers the fastest card available. there's nothing wrong with tweaking a design---i mean the 7900 is basically gonna be a suped-up version of the 7800, so does that mean it is any less of a card? i think not.


    It doen't mean its going to be any less...but it does mean that all were getting is a supped up G70 core instead of some brand new core (This is if the core doesn't change). What these companies need to do is make something thats really gonna change the way we look at things on the screen. Seems like Intel and AMD atleast do that frequently with socket changes and new core processes.
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited February 2006
    jradmin wrote:
    It doen't mean its going to be any less...but it does mean that all were getting is a supped up G70 core instead of some brand new core (This is if the core doesn't change). What these companies need to do is make something thats really gonna change the way we look at things on the screen. Seems like Intel and AMD atleast do that frequently with socket changes and new core processes.

    The last complete redesign from Nvidia came with the 6800 series, and the last one from ati came with the x1800... but AMD have been pushing the A64 architecture for longer than that, and intel have been on netburst for a good few years. It seems to me that the graphics card manufacturers are moving quicker than Intel / AMD when it comes to architecture changes.

    edit: by the way, for any interested spectators I ended up getting the X1900XT. Price / performance was too good to miss :)
  • KhaosKhaos New Hampshire
    edited February 2006
    Omega65 wrote:
    Supply and demand. Nvidia cant make as many 7800GTX 512MB as people want. And even though a Single X1900XTX is faster than a single 7800GTX 512MB, SLI 7800s outgun Crossfire X1900s.
    Omega,

    Nvidia has ceased production of the 7800GTX 512MB. Suppliers already ordered their last batches. The card will be extinct in a month, as if it isn't already. When shopping around, I initially planned on going with a 7800GTX but Newegg only had ONE on its website and it was out of stock. And it wasn't a brand I would use for overclocking.

    I think the situation is dramatically different from how you paint it.

    Also, RD580 is due out in a matter of weeks or short months, and it should dramatically change the performance of X1900XTX's in Crossfire.

    Oh yeah, and the X1900XT drivers aren't even mature yet.

    Bottom line, Nvidia has been spanked. We'll see if the 7900GTX can bring them redemption, but like someone else said, it will need to run at around 700Mhz to match the performance.

    Of course, SLI is much more mature than Crossfire so the performance is better right now, but as a long term investment, Crossfire is a much safer bet at this point since it is more probable for ATI to release a better Crossfire chipset than Nvidia to release a video card that spanks the X1900XT.

    Besides, motherboards are a lot cheaper than two video cards. Right now, Nvidia's problem is the video card and ATI's problem is the motherboards. The 7800GTX, if it's even available in a month, is not going to see any performance gains. Meanwhile, the X1900XT can only go up with newer drivers and better chipsets.

    Investment win = ATI

    Edit: I just realized that I misread Omega's post. Sorry dude. That being said, I just don't see what you point is??? Initially you favor 7800GTX 512's as an investment due to SLI being superior to Crossfire, and then you turn right around and admit that you won't even be able to buy the 7800GTX soon? I'm even more confused now.
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited February 2006
    csimon wrote:
    Oh you haven't seen the A8R32-MVP review yet have you?
    Which bench would you like to see? ;D

    Sorry I just had to throw that in there! :D
    I hadn't read that review. What's the link? Can Crossfire beat SLI in OpenGL type games yet? GamePC in their review of SLI vs Crossfire had SLI as the better overall solution.
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited February 2006
    Khaos wrote:
    Investment win = ATI

    Edit: I just realized that I misread Omega's post. Sorry dude. That being said, I just don't see what you point is??? Initially you favor 7800GTX 512's as an investment due to SLI being superior to Crossfire, and then you turn right around and admit that you won't even be able to buy the 7800GTX soon? I'm even more confused now.
    Nvidia's Stock price has risen slightly since since the intro of the X1900XT while ATI's has fallen slightly....Oh different meaning of investment :)

    I dont favor either the ATI card or the Nvidia card. Both are cards are fast.

    I was simply answering the question of why the 7800 512MB cost more than the X1900, since you said you were confused. I also didn't say nor admit anything about the future availablity of the cards. I simply said that since Supply was constrained (@ 110nm they can make plenty of 430mhz but very few 550mhz chips) and demand is high, the Price is high.

    I'm aware of the 7800GTX production status - I do post news for the site from time to time.....

    And IMO I expect the G71 90nm CPU (7900GTX) to be fully competitve with the X1900XT. Now that's an opinion as the truth is, no one knows for sure. But few people were expecting the 7800 512MB to spank the 1800XT as much as it did. It helps when you know what your competitor can do before you finalize your design.

    PCIe Videocards dont stress/overload a 8x or 16x PCIe bus. Current SLI testing shows a well designed 8x/8x SLI can be just as fast as a 16x/16x SLI. Whenever RD580 arrives, it may be better for Crossfire because of it's higher internal throughput & OCing abilities but I dont think the extra PCIe lanes (while nice to have) wont matter much in and of themselves.
  • jradminjradmin North Kackalaki
    edited February 2006
    I fully expect the G71 to spank ATI, then watch ATI go back to the baord 3 times to redesign a new processor like before. Then, 5 months after that a new Nvidia chip will come back out and the spanking will ensue again. Sure, ATI's single cards may be winning a battle because it took them 3-4 months to get one out after G70....but I wouldn't call it a stratigic victory.

    I do agree that ATI's drivers are definately better. Nvidia released 2 drivers total last year for Gforce cards...and thats really pathetic. ATI released like 3 or 4.

    There really is no safe GPU investment as long as they are coming out with new ones.

    The biggest + Nvidia has going for it is that when they say "Look! We made a new card!" you can guarentee that a store in your town has it that same day. Nvidia's ability to provide a card on announcement day is what gave them a nice slice of the market at G70 time. ATI's stance: "Were still working on our GPU, but we plan to have it ready around 4th quarter."
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited February 2006
    Nvidia's next chip is the G80. It's rumored to have 48 pixel/shader pipelines and be a DX10 GPU.

    Xbitlabs: Nvidia’s G80 to Have (48) Dedicated Pipelines – Rumours
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