MSI K8N diamond power connectors

deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
edited February 2006 in Hardware
Well my new parts arrived yesterday, but I appear to have more connectors on my motherboard than I do on my power supply...

on the motherboard I have a 24pin ATX connector & 6 pin ATX connector... although 2 of those pins are covered by a clip...oh and a molex connector which I guess is for SLi. My PSU (Antec truepower 480W) only has the 20 pin connector and a seperate 4 pin connector. At the moment I have the 20 pin plug in the 24 pin connector and the 4 pin plug in the 4 pin connector. The system seems to work fine, but I notice my Vcore is jumping around all over the place and I can't get my opty higher than 2.4GHz (240*10) before it just refuses to boot. Is this a symptom of instability caused by not having those 4 extra pins connected? can I damage my CPU running it like this or will I be okay for a week or so until I can get a decent PSU? Oh, and if I need to connect those 4 pins now can I get some kind of converter to plug a standard molex into them?

Comments

  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited February 2006
    OK that 8pin connector with the clip on it is the workstation (Dual CPU) version of the P4 type 4 pin (CPU) power connector you ATX PSU has. Plug your 4 pin connector into the unobstructed part of the connector. Your Mobo should work fine with just the 20 pin & 4 pin connected. Plugging in the 4 pin molex isn't necessary but I'd do it anyway.

    Highend PSU have the 8pin connector and I think the 8 pin is part of the BTX power spec so it should start appearing on more PSUs now, just like the 24pin power connector that is now standard.
    attachment.php?attachmentid=19165&d=1140089501
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited February 2006
    Cheers for that Omega, any thoughts on why my Vcore is fluctuating so much? It can vary from 1.384 up to 1.400 which can't be a good thing for system stability...
  • lemonlimelemonlime Canada Member
    edited February 2006
    deicist wrote:
    Cheers for that Omega, any thoughts on why my Vcore is fluctuating so much? It can vary from 1.384 up to 1.400 which can't be a good thing for system stability...

    I'd consider that pretty minor actually.. probably within the margin of error on behalf of the monitoring IC-- unless you can verify with a quality multimeter.

    I'd strongly recommend connecting the auxilliary molex connector, especially if you plan to overclock.. even if you are not using SLI. With my DFI NF4, My system chokes pretty hard without the secondary connectors hooked up. I think you should be fine with the 20-pin PSU and the aux connectors on. One thing to watch out for.. the clip on the main atx plug may not line up, so it disconnects easily.. When I had my Antec 430, I put a bit of tape on the board/lead connector for some extra insurance :)
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    The 8-pin connectors (EPS12v) aren't just for workstations. They are becoming frequently seen now on boards designed for dual core, especially power-hungry Intel boards. It's not necessary to fill all 8-pins on the EPS12 nor all 24 pins on the ATX connector, but often, especially if the system has a high power draw, stability will be improved. The additional pins on both connectros serve to distribute power more evenly across the board (sorry for lack of technical description).

    Deicist, the 8-pin plug, or rather lack of 8-pin plug is an easy fix. I've modified two PSUs for EPS12v for two different motherboards. Each time it has worked perfectly. I've attached a picture of the necessary modification.

    Here's what you do:

    - from an old, dead PSU remove one of the 'P4' connectors, keeping nice lengths of two yellow and two black wires tailing the connector

    - splice the old (cut) connector's wires on to the good PSU's P4's connector's wires , yellow to yellow, black to black (these are nothing more than 12v and ground wires)

    - The plastic form around the old P4 connector will need to be trimmed in order to fit the motherboard pin receivers. Just use a very sharp, thin-bladed knife. (careful! the knife can slip easily off the plastic)

    If you still have stability problems (or inability to overclock) you may also need to get a 20 to 24-pin adaptor for your PSU's ATX plug. The four extra pins are merely two ground and two twelve volt, again, just more evenly distributing motherboard power. EDIT: WRONG - see Omega's post below. :rolleyes:


    If you don't have an old/dead PSU in your parts bin, call a local computer shop. Odds are they've got a bunch PSUs sitting in a dust bin (trash can, for us Americans). They'll probably let you snip off a connector at no cost.

    Muddocktor. Both the MSI 945P Neo F and my present Asus P5WD2 have EPS12v motherboard slots.
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited February 2006
    Leonardo wrote:
    If you still have stability problems (or inability to overclock) you may also need to get a 20 to 24-pin adaptor for your PSU's ATX plug. The four extra pins are merely two ground and two twelve volt, again, just more evenly distributing motherboard power.
    One small correction. The extra 4 pins on the 24pin connector are 3.3v, 5v, 12v & Ground.

    PSU - 24pin - 8pin - 6pin Motherboard connectors (the 6 pin is used by some workstation mobos like the Tyan K8WE)
    attachment.php?attachmentid=19171&d=1140140041
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited February 2006
    deicist wrote:
    Cheers for that Omega, any thoughts on why my Vcore is fluctuating so much? It can vary from 1.384 up to 1.400 which can't be a good thing for system stability...
    Reposted info below.... :)
    deicist wrote:
    when I get a decent PSU sorted out I'm going to start overclocking :)
    SILVERSTONE SST-ST60F ATX 600W Power Supply

    It's a little pricey but it's top notch. I have the "Zeus" version and it's solid. It even has the 8pin connector for your MSI K8N Diamond Plus mobo
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    One small correction. The extra 4 pins on the 24pin connector are 3.3v, 5v, 12v & Ground.
    One "small" correction. One whopper of a correction. Boy, was I ever off on that! I really need to check my facts better. Thanks for correcting the factual error.
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited February 2006
    okay, I've found a couple of old PSUs, the only problem is neither of them has a 4 pin connector...so I need to make my extra connectors from the 2 spare 20 pin connectors. My plan is:

    cut 8 pins from one connector and wire them to the wires for my current 4 pin connector.

    cut 4 pins from the other connector and use it to make an additional 4 pins for my 20 pin connector, splicing it into the correct wires from the current 20 pin connector.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    DFI demands that you use an EPS12v PSU, or your warranty is voided when your NF SLI-series breaks. Just a thought. I know this isn't a DFI board, but I think that gives you an idea of the gravity of the issue.
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited February 2006
    hmmm, just out of interest, does anyone know if the extra connectors on an EPS12v PSU run off a seperate rail or are they just wired into the same rails as the standard ATX + 4 connectors? Does EPS12v specify dual rails?

    edit: also, does anyone know if there's a part of the 20 pin plug that I can cut out which will fit the 8 pin socket without any trimming? ie: the rounded and square pins match to the rounded and square sockets... my motherboard is at home (obviously) but I wanted to make my adaptor now while I'm at work...

    edit2: okay, from a picture I found it looks like it goes:

    top line: rounded-square-square-rounded
    bottom: square-rounded-rounded-square.

    which matches up with a set of pins on my 20 pin connector...
  • lemonlimelemonlime Canada Member
    edited February 2006
    I'm just curious why you want to modify for PSU for a 24-pin connector, decist? The standard is backwards compatible, and you should be able to simply plug in the 20-pin, off-center. If you really want all pins connected, I'd just take a look at a 20-24 pin adapter cable. They are not terribly expensive. Personally, I wouldn't hack up that nice Antec PSU. Give it a try as-is, and if you run into issues, I'd simply sell it off and pick up an OCZ PowerStream or the Silverstone that Omega recommended. I'm pretty certain that you will not improve your stability by modifying your PSU.

    I'm not sure about your board, but I know that the DFI models do not route those extra-four pins elsewhere. They all go to the same voltage back planes. on the board. The extra conductors simply allow a greater amount of current to travel over the standard 18-AWG cables. Although many manufacturers will tell you that you MUST use an ATX2.0 PSU, technically, that should not be the case.

    I used a 20-pin Antec True 430 on my DFI NF4 for several months, and I had no power issues. I only ran into troubles when I neglected to connect the 4-pin molex connector.

    I wouldn't worry about multiple 12V rails either. So long as you have a beefy 25+ amp 12V rail, you should be fine. The ATX2.0 specification does 'officially' call for the use of two +12V rails, but personally, I'd rather have one beefy single rail than two/four weaker ones.
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited February 2006
    Well I'm having problems getting above 2.4GHz with my opty and the only thing I can think of that's causing that is instability due to my power supply... it's not a heat issue because my temps rarely go above 35-40, it's not my memory because it's only at 400MHz (dividers ftw!)...so either I'm really unlucky and my opty simply won't go above 2.4 or it's a powerr issue. I'm hoping it's the latter.

    edit: after reading your overclocking guide I've just realised that I never thought to change my LDT multiplier... that's probably the issue I'm having.
  • lemonlimelemonlime Canada Member
    edited February 2006
    deicist wrote:
    ...edit: after reading your overclocking guide I've just realised that I never thought to change my LDT multiplier... that's probably the issue I'm having.

    Definitiely start there :) Your system will likely start choking up at about 2400MHz on the HTT bus. Good luck pushing harder! :thumbup
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited February 2006
    Well that seems to have been the problem, I'm now at 2.6GHz on stock volts.... only problem is my board won't let me overvolt the CPU. The option is there but it's greyed out. I'm wondering if that's because the extra connectors aren't plugged in, sound plausible?

    edit: hmmm... it's defaulting to 1.4v but the specs on the AMD site say the opty should be running at 3v-3.5v :wtf:
  • lemonlimelemonlime Canada Member
    edited February 2006
    deicist wrote:
    Well that seems to have been the problem, I'm now at 2.6GHz on stock volts.... only problem is my board won't let me overvolt the CPU. The option is there but it's greyed out. I'm wondering if that's because the extra connectors aren't plugged in, sound plausible?

    edit: hmmm... it's defaulting to 1.4v but the specs on the AMD site say the opty should be running at 3v-3.5v :wtf:

    Sweet! FX60 clocks already :) Not sure why it is greyed out, perhaps there is an 'advanced' menu you need to get to? I'm not too familiar with the MSI BIOS.. Not sure why it's at 1.4v.. Is it actually set at 1.4 or is the monitoring system reading 1.4V?
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    hmmm, just out of interest, does anyone know if the extra connectors on an EPS12v PSU run off a seperate rail or are they just wired into the same rails as the standard ATX + 4 connectors? Does EPS12v specify dual rails?
    EPS12v to my knowledge does not require v2.0 (2 X 12v rail) PSUs. I've performed the parallel P4+P4 custom connector mod on two PSUs, one of them a four year old 600w PSU. The mod worked perfectly on both CPUs - excellent voltage levels to all power consumers in the computer. The PSUs I've modifed: 1) Robanton 600W, Akasa 460W v.2.0.
    only problem is my board won't let me overvolt the CPU. The option is there but it's greyed out. I'm wondering if that's because the extra connectors aren't plugged in, sound plausible?
    When you write "extra connectors", are you referring to the 24-pin mobo ATX connector? From what I'm seeing at different tech sites and from documentation from different motherboard manuals, there are some boards that supposedly require all motherboard power receptacles must have matching PSU connectors. Other boards make it optional. For instance, my P5WD2's EPS12v connector is actually two adjoined P-4 receptacles. The manual states that the second P-4 slot, which had a plastic cap covering it when I received the board, is optional. Much of what I'm seeing on the Internet is saying that you can use old standard PSU connectors, but if there is instability, use the new standard EPS12v and 24-pin ATX. Trial and error it would seem. But please note Thrax' comment about DFI's requirement for EPS12v.

    Two motherboards I've owned, both Socket 775 have also had 4-pin molex connectors on the board (MSI 945P Neo-F and Asus P5WD2). I connect those also, but don't know if it's necessary.
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited February 2006
    The extra connectors are the extra 4 of the 24 pin and the extra 4 pins on the 8 pin EPS12v connector which I don't have connected. I can't see any advanced menus to set extra voltage and it does definately seem like I should be able to set an overvoltage in the bit that's greyed out... so maybe it is greyed out because I don't have those connectors plugged in. Anyway, I'm happy enough with 2.6GHz for now :)
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited February 2006
    deicist wrote:
    Well that seems to have been the problem, I'm now at 2.6GHz on stock volts.... only problem is my board won't let me overvolt the CPU. The option is there but it's greyed out. I'm wondering if that's because the extra connectors aren't plugged in, sound plausible?

    edit: hmmm... it's defaulting to 1.4v but the specs on the AMD site say the opty should be running at 3v-3.5v :wtf:
    Never run 3v through your CPU unless you want a molten piece of silicon. Unless you're on water or phase dont run more than v1.6/1.65.
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited February 2006
    Omega65 wrote:
    Never run 3v through your CPU unless you want a molten piece of silicon. Unless you're on water or phase dont run more than v1.6/1.65.

    doh, I meant 1.3 - 1.35v...
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