Mudd, when get to installing it, please start a thread for support and to post your experience. I have been considering moving my dedicated Folding rigs to Ubuntu when Vista comes out, just to upgrade my primary machine to Vista.
No problem, Leo. I was fully planning to do just that. With all this Genuine Validation stuff that M$ has been doing lately and pissing me off with, I figure it's about time to try a different route, OS-wise. I'm hoping that Ubuntu will prove to be a lot less of a PITA to mess with than when I looked at Linux last, which was around 5 years ago. Like you, I don't want to have to dedicate months of hard study to learn the OS; I just don't have the time or inclination to do so now since computers are a hobby, not my way of putting food on the table. From all I've read so far, Ubuntu looks to be a pretty easy way to go Linux.
Why move them to anything? Dedicated folding rigs don't need anything, just shove Knoppix or something (hell, most Linux LiveCDs from any distro should work) download F@H into the RAM Drive on that PC and run it there. Doesn't need a HD and if set up properly you can do it where you only need say a Pendrive to boot it from and then you can remove that too...
Why? Because while I don't want to spend months learning a new OS just for ****s and giggles, I sure wouldn't mind checking out whether Linux would be worth it to me, for my everyday uses, to like it well enough to where I might be motivated to learning much more about it. I'm not totally ruling out whether I might not get interested enough in it to where I'm motivated to getting a lot more familiar with the way it operates, but I'm also not commiting myself to months of relearning the way I compute either, right now. Plus, I don't like ramdrives anyways due to having momentary power outages where I live and since I already have the whole system, including hard drives, I might as well use it.
BTW, I might be getting some disks even earlier. A guy on the OCF forums is going to burn copies of both the latest Ubuntu and Kubuntu distros.
Which of those two gui's is more like what I'm used to in Windows, experts? I know that Ubuntu is Gnome and Kubuntu is KDE, but nothing beyond that.
I think you'll find that both are different from each other and different from Windows but not so different that their operation isn't intuitive. If I were to make comparisons, I'd say KDE is probably closer to Windows than GNOME but it really depends on who configured it for you. GNOME in its original configuration reminds me of NeXTStep more than anything else. The closest common OS that you may have used would be MacOS Classic. I configured mine to be more like Windows in taskbar layout but left everything else fairly unchanged. I've never seen KDE in its default configuration so I can't comment though all the configurations I've seen were laid out like Windows.
Both desktop environments ship with a fairly tame window manager by default that draws windows similar to the ones you're familiar with. Actually navigating the GUI is not going to give you any trouble, the only trouble happens when you need to go to the console for something.
Thanks for the reply, dras. I d/l'ed the Ubuntu desktop guide pdf yesterday and looked through quickly and the gui with Gnome doesn't look too different from what I'm used to seeing in Windows. It looks to be a nice basic guide. Ubuntu also looks to have a fairly intuitive and easy gui based installer and update process too. But just reading this is one thing; I will have to see how it actually is when I have a machine with it installed and running.
BTW, I was planning to install this on my Dual Sata2 machine, which is using the Asrock Dual Sata2 mobo which uses the Uli M1695 chipset and has an X2-4400 in it. Do you know of any particular configuration problems with this setup? As is having problemsw with the Uli chipset or dual core detection? This system has an old GeForce2 GTS vid card, so I don't see it having any problems supporting it.
Shouldn't be a problem with the ULi boards though if anything goes wrong it'll be with the AGP GART. Actually, there could be a problem with your video card since the newer nVidia drivers don't support cards that old. You'll have to keep your driver revision under v7500.
Why? Because while I don't want to spend months learning a new OS just for ****s and giggles, I sure wouldn't mind checking out whether Linux would be worth it to me, for my everyday uses, to like it well enough to where I might be motivated to learning much more about it. I'm not totally ruling out whether I might not get interested enough in it to where I'm motivated to getting a lot more familiar with the way it operates, but I'm also not commiting myself to months of relearning the way I compute either, right now. Plus, I don't like ramdrives anyways due to having momentary power outages where I live and since I already have the whole system, including hard drives, I might as well use it.
BTW, I might be getting some disks even earlier. A guy on the OCF forums is going to burn copies of both the latest Ubuntu and Kubuntu distros.
Which of those two gui's is more like what I'm used to in Windows, experts? I know that Ubuntu is Gnome and Kubuntu is KDE, but nothing beyond that.
I simply meant that why waste HW on dedicated folding machines when they don't need it.
I think I'm going to shut up either way now anyway, I can see my responses aren't being useful and are just creating hostile responses.
I'd say KDE is more like Windows than any of the others. Gnome has been labotomised lately and now has very little to offer in comparison...
I simply meant that why waste HW on dedicated folding machines when they don't need it.
I think I'm going to shut up either way now anyway, I can see my responses aren't being useful and are just creating hostile responses.
I'd say KDE is more like Windows than any of the others. Gnome has been labotomised lately and now has very little to offer in comparison...
Enervex, I wasn't being hostile to you there, but rather trying to explain why I want to do a regular install and the bolded words were not yelling, but rather to put emphasis on that part. And I already have the hardware; it's not like I have to buy anything to put this machine together. And even though it's a dedicated folding rig, I still use my other machines as backups and also just to mess around with. This particular machine has it's own dedicated monitor, so it's one I regularly use as a backup machine anyways.
Drasnor, would a GeForce3 Ti 200 be better to use instead? I can swap that out with another rig if need be. Or if that one won't do, would a Radeon 7000 AGP card or a PCI Radeon 9200 do? That's one nice thing about having multiple rigs; I can swap stuff around without too much problem.
GH, the guy on the OCF forums says he will send my cd's of both Ubuntu and Kubuntu. If you go the Kubuntu route I'll go the Ubuntu route and we'll see who runs into the most problems.
It's not a problem using the GeForce 2's, after all a few of my Linux machines use them. You just need to be aware you can't use the latest drivers with them.
Ubuntu and Kubuntu should be identical except for the desktop environment. They both should offer much the same functionality except for a few items (GNOME CD-Master vs Kcombust etc.) It's a personal preference thing. I used GNOME first so I tend to use GNOME more.
-drasnor
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited July 2006
I
think I'm going to shut up either way now anyway, I can see my responses aren't being useful and are just creating hostile responses.
Oh, not at all, friend. We may have just buzzed through one of your posts too fast, that's all. I have particulary enjoyed how you and others in this thread have given well thought out responses in simple language. It's been very helpful.
It's not a problem using the GeForce 2's, after all a few of my Linux machines use them. You just need to be aware you can't use the latest drivers with them.
Ubuntu and Kubuntu should be identical except for the desktop environment. They both should offer much the same functionality except for a few items (GNOME CD-Master vs Kcombust etc.) It's a personal preference thing. I used GNOME first so I tend to use GNOME more.
-drasnor
Not so. Gnome comes with about 8 programs or so by default, KDE comes with about 200 (that's overexagerating, but it's also probably not far off). KDE also has considerably more control (of KDE itself compared to what Gnome can change) through it's own control program. I wish I still had KDE and Gnome installed so I could take some screenshots of all the things that come with it.
If you join Freenode (basically THE opensource IRC server) everyone will say about how Gnome has had most of its features removed and any settings programs, apparently incase "they confuse users". When I first used Gnome a year or two back it was ok, but now it's... well, empty (I don't just mean in terms of useless programs like lots that come with KDE either).
For reference I'm refering to KDE 3.5.3 and Gnome 2.14.1.
I tried Ubuntu, can't say I was impressed and KDE is a bloated machine whore so I doubt that will help.
But when you tried it you were already familiar with Linux, right? It will be a different perspective for both me and GH with me trying Ubuntu and GH with Kunbuntu. And from what I read on the Ubuntu site, if I want to ge with the KDE interface later it's a relatively easy thing to do. Both GH and I was fairly conversant with Windows and hardware but know almost nothing about Linux, so these distros might make it easier for noobs to get into Linux.
But when you tried it you were already familiar with Linux, right? It will be a different perspective for both me and GH with me trying Ubuntu and GH with Kunbuntu. And from what I read on the Ubuntu site, if I want to ge with the KDE interface later it's a relatively easy thing to do. Both GH and I was fairly conversant with Windows and hardware but know almost nothing about Linux, so these distros might make it easier for noobs to get into Linux.
Yeah, it takes less time to get running than XP does (when I installed it on my moms 1.3Ghz Celeron machine) and it's supposed to be easy, but it just confused me as I was used to Gentoo, heh.
KDE is very similar to Windows IMO, so it makes it easier to transition between the two. Since I use both OSes a lot, Kubuntu makes it nicer for me in having very similar interfaces. Plus, Gnome is just too basic and "easy" for me, it doesn't feel like it has much power.
I spent a long time trying to get Ubuntu to work fully as my main PC. I had a lot of help from Drasnor to get FAH set up and learnt quite a bit in the process.
However, FAH never seemed to work as reliably and more importantly, as quickly, as under Windows XP, so I gave up for a while.
I'm now having another go with the latest version of Ubuntu so will watch your progress with interest.
Yeah, apparently it used to be but nowerdays no-one seems to say about it being slower so maybe it's caught up.
Anyway, if you value your sanity then just don't go in IRC. All you end up is with idiots that will either give one of three answers. They'll either a) point out the obvious over and over and then you'll get sodamised by the channel if you start to get irritated by the fact people keep telling you the same moronic things over and over, b) say the error is PEBCAK (basically your fault) and won't say why or anything, this is mainly because most people in IRC are what is known as "****tards" or c) tell you to fix it yourself. That's right, problem with openoffice "Oh, fix it yourself and stop being so lazy, it's the Linux way" regardless of whether or not you have a days coding experience in your entire life.
So if anyone was wondering about my tained view lately, thank the wonderful users of Freenode.
I'm no expert on linux but I do dabble. I have a few friends who are Linux gurus in my opinion, meaning they can always tell me how to perform a tast or fix a problem with my little linux box. They recommended and I use a Slackware distro. I used Mandrake a little before that. I can't tell much difference myself becuase I don't really work it very hard. Have a little web server, ftp server, and use ssh to log in remotely and play with it. That's about it. Also, they almost exclusively use it in command line mode and so do I because I don't even have a monitor connected to my Linux box. I only connect remotely.
Another cool distro I like is called KNOPPIX Operator and the latest version is 3.3.20 . What's cool about it is that the whole OS is on a CD and you can just pop it in and boot from the cd and you are running a linux OS. It creates a RAM drive and nothing gets written to the hard drive. This way you can play and experiment to your hearts content and then pop out the cd and reboot and you're back to normal. It boots to X Windows and includes tons of apps.
Other disros that allow you to boot off cd that I have tried are Ubuntu and Xandros.
The trouble is they seem to run OK off the CD, lull you in to a false sense of security that everything works OK. You then partition up your hard drive, install the OS properly and then a lot of the elements don't work.
For me, Ubuntu won't connect to the internet, Live CD fine, installed OS, no.
Xandros, Live CD fine , installed OS, no sound.
Each distro has their own forum where there are loads of threads on these problems, but sadly no solutions.
After several frustrating weeks, I'm back to Windows XP. I just hope a more reliable distro comes out before Vista takes over.
That sounds... quite... silly. Did you just install the OS then expect it to work or did you actually install the needed components and configure them?
I downloaded and installed Fedora Core 5 to use as a web server...I chose fedora because I've tinkered with Red Hat before and it seems easy enough to use and configure etc.. I've got my Joomla sites up and running, figured out how to get virtual hosts working with Apache and all the rest of it but I just have some quick questions:
1) this was just a test server to see if I could get it working, now it is I'm going to be moving the server to a dual core Athlon box. This is slightly overkill but it's the only spare machine I have. Anyway, How good is Linux at managing Dual cores? Will I see any performance benefit over a single core machine or is it just a case of multitasking will be better?
2) Is there a guide anywhere to setting up Folding@home on a dual core Linux machine?
3) What's the best bittorrent client for Linux and can someone point me to a guide for setting it up correctly?
I think that's it but I'm sure there'll be more questions when I actually get round to building the machine.
1) Multitasking would benefit but most things (especially like Apache) are multithreaded which means it will benefit heavily from multiple cores/processors as each thread will be handed off onto the core with the least current usage. I run dual core and it's highly useful for me as I compile a lot and the time litterally gets cut in half on a dual core machine.
2) Erm, does the program let you pick a core yourself? If not it should automatically put one on one and the other on the other anyway (the programs not multithreaded so run a copy for each core/processor).
3) Azureus. Not sure the easiest way to install it on Fedora, sorry.
Comments
No problem, Leo. I was fully planning to do just that. With all this Genuine Validation stuff that M$ has been doing lately and pissing me off with, I figure it's about time to try a different route, OS-wise. I'm hoping that Ubuntu will prove to be a lot less of a PITA to mess with than when I looked at Linux last, which was around 5 years ago. Like you, I don't want to have to dedicate months of hard study to learn the OS; I just don't have the time or inclination to do so now since computers are a hobby, not my way of putting food on the table.
BTW, I might be getting some disks even earlier. A guy on the OCF forums is going to burn copies of both the latest Ubuntu and Kubuntu distros.
Which of those two gui's is more like what I'm used to in Windows, experts? I know that Ubuntu is Gnome and Kubuntu is KDE, but nothing beyond that.
Both desktop environments ship with a fairly tame window manager by default that draws windows similar to the ones you're familiar with. Actually navigating the GUI is not going to give you any trouble, the only trouble happens when you need to go to the console for something.
-drasnor
BTW, I was planning to install this on my Dual Sata2 machine, which is using the Asrock Dual Sata2 mobo which uses the Uli M1695 chipset and has an X2-4400 in it. Do you know of any particular configuration problems with this setup? As is having problemsw with the Uli chipset or dual core detection? This system has an old GeForce2 GTS vid card, so I don't see it having any problems supporting it.
-drasnor
I simply meant that why waste HW on dedicated folding machines when they don't need it.
I think I'm going to shut up either way now anyway, I can see my responses aren't being useful and are just creating hostile responses.
I'd say KDE is more like Windows than any of the others. Gnome has been labotomised lately and now has very little to offer in comparison...
-drasnor
Enervex, I wasn't being hostile to you there, but rather trying to explain why I want to do a regular install and the bolded words were not yelling, but rather to put emphasis on that part. And I already have the hardware; it's not like I have to buy anything to put this machine together. And even though it's a dedicated folding rig, I still use my other machines as backups and also just to mess around with. This particular machine has it's own dedicated monitor, so it's one I regularly use as a backup machine anyways.
Drasnor, would a GeForce3 Ti 200 be better to use instead? I can swap that out with another rig if need be. Or if that one won't do, would a Radeon 7000 AGP card or a PCI Radeon 9200 do? That's one nice thing about having multiple rigs; I can swap stuff around without too much problem.
GH, the guy on the OCF forums says he will send my cd's of both Ubuntu and Kubuntu. If you go the Kubuntu route I'll go the Ubuntu route and we'll see who runs into the most problems.
Ubuntu and Kubuntu should be identical except for the desktop environment. They both should offer much the same functionality except for a few items (GNOME CD-Master vs Kcombust etc.) It's a personal preference thing. I used GNOME first so I tend to use GNOME more.
-drasnor
Not so. Gnome comes with about 8 programs or so by default, KDE comes with about 200 (that's overexagerating, but it's also probably not far off). KDE also has considerably more control (of KDE itself compared to what Gnome can change) through it's own control program. I wish I still had KDE and Gnome installed so I could take some screenshots of all the things that come with it.
If you join Freenode (basically THE opensource IRC server) everyone will say about how Gnome has had most of its features removed and any settings programs, apparently incase "they confuse users". When I first used Gnome a year or two back it was ok, but now it's... well, empty (I don't just mean in terms of useless programs like lots that come with KDE either).
For reference I'm refering to KDE 3.5.3 and Gnome 2.14.1.
I tried Ubuntu, can't say I was impressed and KDE is a bloated machine whore so I doubt that will help.
But when you tried it you were already familiar with Linux, right? It will be a different perspective for both me and GH with me trying Ubuntu and GH with Kunbuntu. And from what I read on the Ubuntu site, if I want to ge with the KDE interface later it's a relatively easy thing to do. Both GH and I was fairly conversant with Windows and hardware but know almost nothing about Linux, so these distros might make it easier for noobs to get into Linux.
Yeah, it takes less time to get running than XP does (when I installed it on my moms 1.3Ghz Celeron machine) and it's supposed to be easy, but it just confused me as I was used to Gentoo, heh.
However, FAH never seemed to work as reliably and more importantly, as quickly, as under Windows XP, so I gave up for a while.
I'm now having another go with the latest version of Ubuntu so will watch your progress with interest.
:smokin:
-drasnor
Anyway, if you value your sanity then just don't go in IRC. All you end up is with idiots that will either give one of three answers. They'll either a) point out the obvious over and over and then you'll get sodamised by the channel if you start to get irritated by the fact people keep telling you the same moronic things over and over, b) say the error is PEBCAK (basically your fault) and won't say why or anything, this is mainly because most people in IRC are what is known as "****tards" or c) tell you to fix it yourself. That's right, problem with openoffice "Oh, fix it yourself and stop being so lazy, it's the Linux way" regardless of whether or not you have a days coding experience in your entire life.
So if anyone was wondering about my tained view lately, thank the wonderful users of Freenode.
Another cool distro I like is called KNOPPIX Operator and the latest version is 3.3.20 . What's cool about it is that the whole OS is on a CD and you can just pop it in and boot from the cd and you are running a linux OS. It creates a RAM drive and nothing gets written to the hard drive. This way you can play and experiment to your hearts content and then pop out the cd and reboot and you're back to normal. It boots to X Windows and includes tons of apps.
Heres a link. Operator v3.3.20
The trouble is they seem to run OK off the CD, lull you in to a false sense of security that everything works OK. You then partition up your hard drive, install the OS properly and then a lot of the elements don't work.
For me, Ubuntu won't connect to the internet, Live CD fine, installed OS, no.
Xandros, Live CD fine , installed OS, no sound.
Each distro has their own forum where there are loads of threads on these problems, but sadly no solutions.
After several frustrating weeks, I'm back to Windows XP. I just hope a more reliable distro comes out before Vista takes over.
I downloaded and installed Fedora Core 5 to use as a web server...I chose fedora because I've tinkered with Red Hat before and it seems easy enough to use and configure etc.. I've got my Joomla sites up and running, figured out how to get virtual hosts working with Apache and all the rest of it but I just have some quick questions:
1) this was just a test server to see if I could get it working, now it is I'm going to be moving the server to a dual core Athlon box. This is slightly overkill but it's the only spare machine I have. Anyway, How good is Linux at managing Dual cores? Will I see any performance benefit over a single core machine or is it just a case of multitasking will be better?
2) Is there a guide anywhere to setting up Folding@home on a dual core Linux machine?
3) What's the best bittorrent client for Linux and can someone point me to a guide for setting it up correctly?
I think that's it but I'm sure there'll be more questions when I actually get round to building the machine.
2) Erm, does the program let you pick a core yourself? If not it should automatically put one on one and the other on the other anyway (the programs not multithreaded so run a copy for each core/processor).
3) Azureus. Not sure the easiest way to install it on Fedora, sorry.