Ghosting a RAID 0 drive and re-installing on sigle hard drive--Is it possible?
I have a friend who has an original KT7-R (KT133) board, running 2-20 Gig hard drives in RAID 0 and the board is about to croak due to swollen caps. He just ordered a MSI K7T Turbo2 (KT133A) mobo so that he can use his memory and stuff from this rig, but the Turbo2 doesn't have any RAID onboard. Can he make a ghost image of his raid 0 array and restore it to just 1 drive on the new mobo? He's using Win2K as the os on that rig.
I know that it might not boot up after installing the image on the hard drive, but do you think a repair install will get it up and running? I'll make him buy a bigger drive to install the ghost image as he has about 20 gigs of stuff on his computer presently.
mudd
I know that it might not boot up after installing the image on the hard drive, but do you think a repair install will get it up and running? I'll make him buy a bigger drive to install the ghost image as he has about 20 gigs of stuff on his computer presently.
mudd
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To be ub3r safe this should be easy enough to test. Other alternatives for saving the image would be a third HD or over the network.
Just being absolutely safe huh
One other question; does Norton Ghost 2003 read raid arrays? I noticed that he had it on his machine, but didn't check it out to see if it will read his array.
2003 version of Ghost will work too.
If you even could ghost one drive of a raid-0 array (which you can't thank god) you would get nothing in reality since it alternates every other write of data to the array. Meaning you get nothing but corrupted crapola. Garbage in laymans terms.
You really have no buisness having stuff in a raid-0 array.
Tex
Tex is right, except for performance on non-SCSI. BUT, you do lose some recovery options that way. Image whole array off to other media external to ARRAY , rebuild WHOLE array if you want that for performance, after new drive is in place. I'd also keep a boot partition out of a RAID-0 array if that was managed to be part of it. I would not keep ALL my stuff on a RAID-0. But some of it might be faster to keep there while the array survives. I'll never raid-0 a whole system's worth of data in a solely mode 0 RAID array, though.
it would make perfect sense to be able to ghost or backup or make a copy of the data that is inside a bad harddrive in a raid 0 system. you make a copy of the data which will merge again with the second drive. a bad harddrive doesn't mean bad data...think about it...
ok
Merry christmas and best of luck!
Tex
On the subject of the motherboard and bad capacitors, it would have been a helluva lot cheaper and more practical just to replace the caps, they'd only cost a few dollars.
OK, I admit unless you know what you're doing, it could be a little tricky, but the motherboard would have been saved and you could have carried on using the 2 x 20Gb RAID 0 setup.
Do you know anybody who could do that job for you, or is the MSI board already ordered?
Short version: Don't use RAID 0 unless you need it. If you do, manage the problems, and it can be a decent solution. My experiences are below if anyone is interested. Don't install your system on a RAID 0 unless you want to hate your computer sometimes. Use Acronis backup software on a sytem install.
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Hardware setup:
If you're using RAID, separate your disks. If you're using two RAID 0s, stagger them. Manage airflow well. Check them for physical problems not infrequently. I use my ear (sometimes with an automotive tube-on-a-stethoscope thingy; if one disk sounds rougher than the other, I don't trust it anymore), and feel the disks with my finger for both having "the same feel" and any over-heating after heavy use (DO check that last, I've had to physically modify things when I thought they were good). I've successfully imaged and re-installed a single RAID 0 disk onto an identical disk. Otherwise, just be careful of backups.
Data Only:
If you only have data, as long as you realize you *will* get minor corruption now and then, and possibly lose the lot of it, you'll be fine if you manage things with that in mind. There are RAID 0 file recovery solutions out there, but that assumes you have, or are able to make, a disk image. Otherwise, be prepared to lose all your data or pay a fortune to have someone read your platters directly in a safe room--keep $1000 plus in the back of your mind. Find a way to backup the data, even if you do have a half a terrabyte on a raid array.
System Issues:
If you have your system installed on the RAID 0 there are some possible partition and boot pointer problems that make it iffy whether you can easily image the combined stripes and succeed with a reinstall, though I see it's been done above.
But:
For information on RAID 0 system reinstalls, refer to "Acronis True Image Workstation" with the additionally licensed "Universal Restore." They allow you to reinstall your system onto dissimilar hardware (which could include two new blank disks for your array, or a new system entirely); however, you have to install a RAID 0 system onto another RAID 0, though it can be different disks on a different machine, and you have to include a RAID image that includes all partitions in your backup (check the documentation carefully). You can't go from a RAID 0 to a single disk using their software, and they document why well; I'm sure they'd be happy to talk with you. Excellent company. Short of that, advanced hacking only I would think if you get in trouble.
An XP repair install has fixed a RAID 0 system install when something mangled my MBR. [Store your XP key offsite, and have another computer next to you, or go live in a tent.] This is about the time I started researching backup solutions that could handle a raid system restore (Acronis--not all backup software can handle all implementations of RAID 0) :S
Pre-backup and level of corruption to expect:
You should also look into a byte-level duplicate file utility with which to manage your backups if using RAID 0s as well (to be used before your backup software). This will help you discover if one of your files is different when it oughtn't to be. Example: Have not infrequently gotten a single, multi-pixel stripe, of a single color, in a single layer of a large photoshop file corrupted. Fortunately, I assume such things will happen and take measures. Keep my working files folders on both RAIDs until backup, and have a lot of fairly redundant Photoshop layers. My original raw files always go onto a single disk first, often DVD as well, though I'm getting tired of that last. (I manage where my data finally is with a different utility.)
WARNING XP SP1->SP2:
I've had the "F Parameter" erased on two older removable firewire drives when moving from WinXP SP1 to SP2. Don't quite know why. (Though the blasted manufacturer, after I looked on their site, did say they only supported sp1, curse them.) Do know that after I ripped the disk out of the enclosure and put it on an IDE cable, File Scavenger 3 (*not* 2.1) managed to recover them for me. The files would show on a read only scan, but would not show as existing otherwise. I mention this just as a warning of the sorts of things that can happen to the backups you're depending on.
Also, the first time I tried to update to SP2 on a system RAID 0, it broke the RAID. Was told I was out of luck, but managed to rebuild it with a bit of effort. Waited a loooong time before I tried it again with no problems.
Doh, reminder:
Refresh the data on your backup hardisks sometimes if they haven't been used. Remember, it is a magnetic medium. And never try to archive to DVD-RW unless it's purely temporary.
Summary:
Looking forward to a nice tape drive and big SCSI RAID 5 solution. $$$ Until then, RAID 0 is fast, available, and cheap. You just live with data-integrity on the edge. The current computer-speed bottleneck, at least for a big-file Photoshop user, will always be hard data storage and memory-overflow disk storage. RAID 0 has proven invaluable to me for the price, but has cost rather a lot in learning to manage the blasted things, and, in the past, downtime. The Acronis software has, with my own separate work-flow and data-integrity adjustments, been invaluable. Using RAID 0, keep in mind data backup space, and workflow, is going to be a very serious issue, especially if you expect to be able to recover a system-RAID install.
Welcome to the forums, Dustydog. We hope you stay with us. We are a friendly bunch.
Win XP Pro OS, I think I've done one fresh install during that time.
Using the Raptors, I do find the RAID 0 setup beneficial.
I don't know why people are so wary about using RAID, providing you use a good quality motherboard (Asus & DFI are good) with a good controller, RAID 0, in my opinion, is as likely or unlikely to crash as any common or garden single hard disk.
Agreed, the chances double as you have two disks, but as mentioned above, using software such as Acronis True Image is a good idea.
I have Acronis True Image V8.0. V10.0 is out now, I notice. I can back up my RAID 0 setup using ATI V8.0 but I cannot re-install as ATI V8.0 will not recognise a freshly formatted RAID 0 setup.
I'm wondering if ATI V10.0 addresses this hiccup?
And btw, who woke this thread up? I ain't been here for years
Brief summary: Was perfect for me because I had to have fast system virtual memory both on my main disk and fast Photoshop memory on a second disk. I also owned two identical, rather new IDE drives for the second array. Very cost effective for my needs at the time, and was using, now, older hardware (and even then, some hand-me-downs); SATA was brand new and the drives rather small. Only use RAID 0 if you really need it. And only use it if you can access the web on another computer in the same house, :P One with Nero's Burning ROM on it.
Re: Toy. Not even a very good toy. Too many headaches. A cost effective speed boost if you really, really need it. Sort of like a band-saw getting set up in the living room if you ran out of garage space. A toy disk is one where you can do a virgin install, perhaps from an image, very easily. Toys get infected with malware from odd websites and copy protection schemes *waves at Sony*.
For a long time, there wasn't proper backup support, or software support, though there is now, and info was hard to come by. Having my OS on a RAID 0 gave me a ton of headaches, which Acronis (and MS) have finally fixed [Yes Floppy, ver. 10 does support it, but talk to their presales people and read their PDF documentation. And definitely purchase the Universal Restore plugin. Some of the business apps require you to go through a salesman to download trials and manuals, but they've been helpful rather than a pain. Look at their Disk Director suite as well, see if you need it. Other than the server products, the prices aren't bad for "workstation" apps.]
I was reading a tweaking guide today, and noticed you can't put your XP paging files on a second RAID. You can, however, put your Photoshop overflow on one. You also give up SMART monitoring support, though you can use Spin Right on each disk individually on another computer (and not many use SMART anyway). But again, extra hassles, though I've always trusted my fingers more than utilities.
My personal bottlenecks have always been disk speed, and where's that blasted file. I have a 250 gig serial RAID, a 480 IDE raid, and a DVD-RW and one more disk inside the same machine, plus external disks. Honestly, I've had more trouble with the external disks. My computer does sound like a jet taking off with all the fans. The system has been very stable, especially now.
Those dual arrays have been good to me. I need the swap file speed on the first array because I always have too many apps and plug-ins working at once, and need a very fast source for Photoshop virtual memory on a different disk. Being able to make two big, slowish IDE drives I already owned into one big fast drive was, and is, lovely. Having an extremely fast, large, disk for using memory hog multiple apps I have to switch between was also lovely. Having so much fast disk space, made image cataloging programs operate very nicely, thank you. (I like Portfolio personally.) Frankly, having to go find a particular set of DVDs, or an external disk for some backup files (without scratching the one, or dropping the other<--that happened) has been less stable than my system.
With 10k rpm disks out there, in the sizes they're making now, I probably wouldn't advise using RAID 0. For me, however, having almost a terrabyte of very fast disks on the same computer enabled me to work very quickly in Photoshop, to catalogue images with previews and keep at least one set of the finished files on my computer in most cases--so I didn't have to go look in an archive external drive or DVD set, catalogued name and location or not. Having two arrays, let me back large files and folders up across to the other disks at amazing speed for the time, and given my particular needs, I found it worth the headaches. The array to array transfers were surprisingly error-free as long as I did consistent disk scans.
Next clean install is going on a new system with the fastest, largest drives I can buy. RAID 3 or 5 would be nice, but so would a huge tape backup. I'd still consider having a second array for my Photoshop overflow and on-the-fly backups, but never again a system disk. Wouldn't want to install a system disk to a fault-tolerant RAID either as hardware problems, at least for me, have been far easier to predict and manage with workflow and system physical maintenance than software problems. As far as backups of may-need-these files right now onto safe data storage, a very nice RAID 5 would be lovely, but dang, the price. If I were going to tape, I'd still want to run the catalogue app from a very fast disk first. All depends, for me, finally, on what I can afford and when.
That's my last RAID essay. The story of an early adopter has been told.
Now who can tell me a way to back up multiple terrabytes in the most stable, cost-effective way? (I was looking at this used punch card machine....)
That's a lot of data you heave around in your puter. No wonder you're a RAID fan. I would be too were I in your shoes.
Have a DELL Studio 435XPS - Intel I7-920 - 6 GIG - VISTA.
My first and last Dell btw.
I rebooted after going into the BIOS (did not change a thing, just had a look around) and screen came up with Operating System not found.
Went back into BIOS to check, settings OK but no go.
PC is 3 months old and I know support at dell would not be able to help me, I didn't even try.
I thought I buy a dual enclosure capable of RAID and hook that up to my old system and get the file off of the HD but the salesman told me thats not going to work since you need the controller from the pc the system is on. Makes sense to me.
Now would it be possible to install a ingle HD in the one spot left on my MOBO, install Vista on it and would it see the other 2 RAID drives??
Or install 2 raid drives and do it that way, would that work???
Any suggestions appreciated; I do not want to reinstall Vista (and loose all files) untill I know 100% sure there is no other way.
Dellsick
It's very unlikely that if everything worked, then you booted into your bios and exited without saving or changing anything that everything would mysteriously stop working. Something had to have changed.
So... install your other hard drive, go into the BIOS and enable the SATA port and then boot to Acronis True Image. It should allow you to image it over.
As for the actual issue... Your Dell should have at least a 1 year warranty. Use the online chat to get things going. It's either a BIOS configuration problem, hardware problem, or the OS/ Bootloader got messed up. Try to do a repair with Vista. If the Bootloader is messed up it will fix it and you won't have to do anything else. If Vista cannot see the RAID 0 array, then the hardware or BIOS are the issue.
Thanks for your reply.
The hardware does see the drives when booting up in F2 mode. The BIOS seem all ok and even after F9-ning (default setings) and restarting the "missing operating system" shows. When booting from CDROM I am able to reinstall operating system but I want my files off of the disks first.
Thank you QCH, I got my day cut out for me. I'll report back with the results.I just booted from the wrong (the drivers cd) cd "on purpose" and waited an waited. After 3 minutes the screen for testing the system came up (could not get into that before) so it is testing now. Be an hour or so.
Well, the disk image, long story but no go.
The computer check from this morning gave a 4400:011A code (disk_SN:I-target not ready). Tried to do the repair option but the OS does not show and asks to load drivers. Tried everything but can not seem to get the drivers (really, where do you load them from, tried the disk but really do not know what to look for?). Then I decided to do a fresh install; Disk 1 allocated space is 596.2 GB which tells me my files outside of Windows system files are still ont he disk, since it is a 640 GB HD (x2). Right?
So I tried making a new 60 GB partition for the operation system, no luck. Got the message: "Windows is unable to find a system volume that meets its criteria for installation". Deleted my 60 GB partition and tried installing on 596 but got the same message.
And thats where I am at now! Lost and frustrated. HELP
Thanks for your patience.
No news yet but I will attach some pics of the various screens. Sorry for the bad quality, but was gonna use my Canon but ran out of batteries so using my Nokia.
First pictures are going to "repair computer" - No operating system found - Load drivers. Then sources comes up from the Vista CD. Where are the drivers?
Then next I go up one level and you can see all the drives on the pc.
Then I go to "C" (notice it sees both disks) and screen pops up "Need to format disk". Cancel I choose.
Then I go back to Repair screen and choose "Restore" and next pic comes up. When running rstruirstrui.exe noting happens.