no pci-e slots. am i living in the past?

djshowdowndjshowdown London
edited December 2006 in Hardware
i have an old radeon 7200 card that is quite honestly a bit pants. has never handled games very well and is a bit lacking

what are my options with regards to upgrades?

I have an Intel D875PBZ motherboard if that helps

am i correct in thinking i need an AGP card?

please help, my knowledge in this area in particular is near enough non existent
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Comments

  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited October 2006
    Yes, you are correct. Your motherboard has no PCI-express slots. If I am correct, the highest rated video cards for AGP readily available now are the ATI X800 and Nvidia 7800 series. You might still be able to find a 7900 Nvidia.
  • djshowdowndjshowdown London
    edited October 2006
    are any of those any good? or at least, better than what i already have by some distance?
  • edited October 2006
    As for the AGP version of the ATI x800XT, is it any good? I have a radeon 9800PRO and I am looking for an upgrade, but if the card is pricy and wont give that much bang for my bucks, Id rather change my mobo for something bigger in some months (heard quad cores were coming out so I may get cheap dual core).
  • DonutDonut Maine New
    edited October 2006
    In another thread I read earlier, I believe Sledge recommended a 7800gs(?) as an upgrade over the x800 series cards.

    If you plan on changing mobos in a few months I'd think about going PCI-E.
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited October 2006
    djshowdown wrote:
    are any of those any good? or at least, better than what i already have by some distance?

    Better than a 7200? OH YES!
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited October 2006
    The 7800GS is the best AGP card on the market currently, It will run any of today’s games on high settings.

    ATI's only AGP high end card lacks in support of the new tech, mainly SM 3.0 which is a huge component in today’s games. I am willing to bet you would see a 400% increase in gaming depending on how much ram you have and what CPU you are running.
  • djshowdowndjshowdown London
    edited October 2006
    thanks alot ppl

    for the record i am running a P4 3.0 Ghz with HT and have 1 GB of PC3200 ram

    although i am looking to upgrade the ram to 2 GB when i got the money

    not looking to change the mobo as im not confident enough to do that myself. i am looking to build another pc from scratch to see what its all about so maybe after i have done that then i will have a go. right now im too scared :(

    can anyone recommend any other cards as alternatives as this one is over £200 here in UK. if this is the best value for money then fair enough but what are my options if i just cant spare that much?


    much thanks for all your replies thus far peeps!
  • edited October 2006
    Actually, there are also AGP video cards using the ATI X1600 and X1650 gpu's too, which are of a later generation than the X800 series also and support SM 3.0 too. But Sledge is right in that the AGP cards using the 7800GS gpu are the highest performance cards on the market now. Gainward did release around 1500 AGP cards in the UK earlier this year that used the 7800 GT gpu, but were very expensive and sold out really fast. But that was a very limited run and they didn't ever come out with any more after that initial run of cards either.

    As far as value for the money though, you might look at the X1650 Pro gpu video cards. I'm not sure of shops in the UK, but I know that newegg has them for about half the price of the 7800GS AGP cards here in the US.

    I just looked up an online UK vendor and I see that Klomett.co.uk has the Gainward GeForce 7800GS+ 512MB for a decent price. I know this is even more than you are looking to spend, but that is about the fastest performing AGP card on the market and that is a decent price for it too.

    For a much more affordable video card Klompett is getting this Sapphire X1650 Pro AGP video card for £95 any day now, which is more in line with your budgetary needs. And the X1650 Pro GPU also supports shader model 3.0 too. But it isn't in the same league as the 7800GS+ card I linked to either, performance-wise.

    Now I don't know how klompett is to deal with or anything though. I have no experience buying anything in the UK, but there are quite a few people who frequent these forums that can recommend a quality store to buy from for a fellow countryman.

    As far as future upgrading goes, AGP boards are about at their end now. But Asrock is making an inexpensive Core 2 Duo capable board based on the Intel i865G chipset that has AGP and DDR support that I will be experimenting with next week, for a cheap upgrade for an older P4 machine. This board will let me run the latest and greatest Intel cpu while still keeping my old AGP card and DDR memory. I will be posting about how the upgrade goes next week. :)
  • SPIKE09SPIKE09 Scatland
    edited October 2006
    Hi DJ this link if it works should point you over to ARIA, a UK based supplier I have used them for a while now no problems, fast delivery and excellent price range. check the web super specials, as they sometimes have very good prices. Best advice look at the options and post back which you like the look of and folks can give you advice, based on what you like.

    http://www.aria.co.uk/ProductsList.asp?Category=15&SubCat=&Name=&Page=1&SortBy=1
  • SPIKE09SPIKE09 Scatland
    edited October 2006
    muddocktor wrote:
    Asrock is making an inexpensive Core 2 Duo capable board based on the Intel i865G chipset that has AGP and DDR support that I will be experimenting with next week, for a cheap upgrade for an older P4 machine. This board will let me run the latest and greatest Intel cpu while still keeping my old AGP card and DDR memory. I will be posting about how the upgrade goes next week. :)
    Asrock CONROE945G-DVI, i945G, o/b GMA950
    Asrock 775Twins-HDTV R2.0 o/b ATi X300
    Asrock ConroXFIRE-E SATA2 i945P
    If it is one of this lot you are looking at the I can report from the micromart UK, that we have had success with all three they are not overclocking boards but stable and good value, some probs getting the FSb above 300 though.:bigggrin:
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2006
    Rumour has it that eVGA is going to release an AGP version of the ATi X1950 Pro! That'd be great news for you AGP owners.
  • djshowdowndjshowdown London
    edited October 2006
    my mobo apparently only handles up to 4x agp

    will all these 8x ones be going to waste if i install one?

    also for the software spec of that sapphire one it says windows vista. does that mean i NEED vista?!?!?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2006
    AGP 8x is no faster, in the real world, than AGP 4x. AGP 8x was all marketing.

    No, you won't need Vista.
  • djshowdowndjshowdown London
    edited October 2006
    nice one thrax

    i was worried for a second there

    am currently searching for the two cards mentioned and trying to find better prices

    anybody got any more suggestions they wanna throw in the mix?
  • djshowdowndjshowdown London
    edited October 2006
    how much better is the x1650 as opposed to this one

    http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=12905&GroupID=330
  • djshowdowndjshowdown London
    edited October 2006
    i know i am asking alot of questions but can anyone tell me if im gonna have a problem fitting these cards?

    some of them look pretty chunky and im wondering wether they are gonna be physically too big to fit into my mobo

    http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bz/pix/D875PBZ_lg.jpg
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited October 2006
    the problem with a x1900 agp card is there is not enough lanes to feed it form the CPU, so you will see a huge hit in perofrmance. four x just wont due...
  • edited October 2006
    djshowdown, yes, that should be a decent video card for your needs. I think the X1600 Pro is just an older version of the same gpu, but I think they also shrunk the process down with the X1650 Pro series and should theoretically overclock better and run slightly cooler. But I'm not positive on the process info though. And even with a 2 slot solution like the 7800GS cards, you should have plenty of room on your board since it's a full sized ATX board. You just wouldn't be able to stick anything into the first pci slot below the agp slot.

    Sledge, the X1950 Pro might just finally be enough gpu to actually use most of the bandwidth of an 8X AGP slot. I don't think you will see hardly any performance hit due to bandwidth constraints; you might lose a little performance from the translator chip they will have to use to convert that PCI-E gpu to an AGP signal. After all, the whole PCI-E thing was forced on us by that evil Intel as AGP was nowheres close to being flooded out. Hence the statement by Thrax that there is almost no performance difference between AGP 4X and AGP 8X.
  • djshowdowndjshowdown London
    edited October 2006
    Microsoft really care nothing for the consumer do they

    thanks alot for the help guys

    i will probably go for the cheaper option

    A) the price is more within my range
    B) the more expensive one would probably be overkill for what i need

    thanks for the help though ppl

    you can bet I'll be bothering you all with questions next time i upgrade something!

    anyways

    peace
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited October 2006
    dj, I'm glad we were able to help.

    By the way, computer technology moves at a very rapid pace, much faster than say, with automobiles. If you had a ten year old computer, probably none of teh parts, except maybe the fans, would be usable in a new computer. This is not a Microsoft problem. It's just the way technology works. At a point, the upgrade options for any computer become minimal.
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited October 2006
    The X1900XTX has proven to use over 8x at peak performance....
  • edited October 2006
    The X1900XTX has proven to use over 8x at peak performance....

    But the X1950 Pro has less pixel and raster pipes than the X1900XT gpu too, so I don't think it will take a massive hit in performance like you alluded too earlier. Even if it does take a slight performance hit it will still be a viable upgrade for an AGP system that is otherwise a pretty good machine and extend the machine's gaming prowness. If you are running a socket 939 system like I am, it would still be a good investment because otherwise I would have to upgrade everything else in the system too, since socket 939 is now a dead platform and going to AM2 would also make me have to buy a new processor and ram along with a new mobo.

    EDIT: And dj, I'm glad we could help you out with some advice man. Be sure to let us know how well your system performs after the upgrade. And sometime next week I should have some results on my experiment with the new Asrock board that's based on the i865G chipset that is Conroe capable too. Something like this might be an option for you in the future if you want improved performance out of your computer but don't want to have to buy all new components besides the ram and mobo. :)
  • djshowdowndjshowdown London
    edited October 2006
    well thus far i have opened my case to clean in and have changed the dvd-rw

    thats about as much as ive done with regards to modification

    maybe one day i will get the guts to swap the mobo

    is it really as simple as just moving all the stuff to the new one?
  • edited October 2006
    Hey, just a question: Woudn't you guys testing all those new and cool parts have older spare ones you would be willing to let go for some money? I mean, if I can get good parts cheaper than retail and you get to get rid of your old ones for some money, its a win/win situation in my book.
  • djshowdowndjshowdown London
    edited October 2006
    Leonardo wrote:

    By the way, computer technology moves at a very rapid pace, much faster than say, with automobiles. If you had a ten year old computer, probably none of teh parts, except maybe the fans, would be usable in a new computer. This is not a Microsoft problem. It's just the way technology works. At a point, the upgrade options for any computer become minimal.

    my comment on microsoft was'nt just relating to the issues raised in this topic

    its many others too

    like their new policy for vista with regards to upgrades

    probably not really relevant but anything to have a dig at microsoft

    windows could be such a wonderful program as well

    instead its quite good
  • djshowdowndjshowdown London
    edited October 2006
    @ Karoum

    im sure people would be willing to offload their stuff for cash

    but in this particular case it probably wouldnt be worth your while

    the card i have at the moment can be had for about £16 in the uk lol

    i also have a dvd-r/w that will read and write dvds slowly but cannot read or write to cd's

    not that it would be any good to anyone
  • edited October 2006
    Karoum wrote:
    Hey, just a question: Woudn't you guys testing all those new and cool parts have older spare ones you would be willing to let go for some money? I mean, if I can get good parts cheaper than retail and you get to get rid of your old ones for some money, its a win/win situation in my book.

    Yeah, I generally sell my old parts when I upgrade through the Deal Depot here. Depending on how the new board works out, I will be selling the old parts (mobo and cpu) in a week or so.
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited October 2006
    muddocktor wrote:
    But the X1950 Pro has less pixel and raster pipes than the X1900XT gpu too, so I don't think it will take a massive hit in performance like you alluded too earlier. Even if it does take a slight performance hit it will still be a viable upgrade for an AGP system that is otherwise a pretty good machine and extend the machine's gaming prowness. If you are running a socket 939 system like I am, it would still be a good investment because otherwise I would have to upgrade everything else in the system too, since socket 939 is now a dead platform and going to AM2 would also make me have to buy a new processor and ram along with a new mobo.

    I agree it won't be a massive hit in performance, but to note the PCI-E versions of AGP cards always tend to be faster cards. The 7800GS is a spit image of a 7800GT, the GT is about 5-10% faster overall. Not that it would be noticeable if you are not a hardcore gamer like myself, but there is a performance loss.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited October 2006
    Hey, just a question: Woudn't you guys testing all those new and cool parts have older spare ones you would be willing to let go for some money?
    You bet! For many of us, there is a nearly constant upgrade and sell-off cycle. Check out our Deal Depot & Trading Post. You can sell and buy computer parts there.
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