If it isn’t broken…don’t fix it?

Unknown · October 2003

The controversy continues over ATI Catalyst 3.8 drivers allegedly causing hardware issues. ATI has stated “we have spent a great deal of time trying to reproduce this problem and analyzing our driver code. There is nothing in our driver code that has changed since CAT 3.7 to CAT 3.8 that could possibly cause this behaviour. We believe that our drivers are not causing these alleged problems.“
Claims are being made that the Catalyst 3.8 drivers could cause damage to computer hardware; specifically monitors. ATI has denied this as impossible with their driver set. 
In some forums, including tech site Short-Media, many disagree but where is the verifiable proof? ATI have extended an invitation to any customers who feel they have been affected by the alleged Catalyst 3.8 issues to contact ATI technical support via email or phone. ATI says they have yet to speak with anyone related to this issue with substantiated evidence. ATI has also encountered a lack of willingness for those to come forward from particular forums in which claims were made. 
Short-Media has extended the same assistance offering to be a conduit for information from site members to ATI technical support. Response has been equally as disappointing yet the forum discussion threads grow longer. The originator of the discussions at Short-Media forums has been contacted by ATI who have yet to see meaningful proof supporting the alleged issues. 
Short-Media forums remain to be the popular place for debate over the validity of claims and the website owners, who promote free discussion in the forums, caution everyone against succumbing to the “Chicken Little” syndrome. 
“Our purpose here is to support our member's and site visitor's quest for answers. To that end we have been cooperating with ATI to connect their technical people with those who claim the drivers may have caused harm to their systems.” said a Short-Media website owner. “ATI are even loaning us a 9800 series display card so that we may investigate these alleged issues for ourselves.”
Tech sites can be accused of creating or participating in controversial subjects in the hopes of gaining a more prominent position on the Internet. Short-Media is the latest to be tried before their peers on this. 
“It’s just not true and, in fact, it's an insult to be accused of participating in this for ratings. We promote a safe forum where members are encouraged to discuss PC hardware and software. Some members honestly believe there are grounds for further investigation and we think they have a right to satisfactory answers, especially given all the attention. Short-Media reports on information brought to the site. We are reporting developments. We are not saying that any ATI product or software is to blame as there is insufficient evidence at this time for a meaningful conclusion.”
Short-Media continues to look into this matter and soon to be released tests may show a lot…of nothing…which will bring a sigh of relief to many an ATI 9800 series product owner.
The ATI official response press release to alleged monitor failure issue is <a href="http://www.short-media.com/news.php?extend.158" target="_blank">here</a> and Short-Media Catalyst 3.8 forum discussion is <a href="http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4820" target="_blank">here</a>.

Camman · October 2003

As stated before, my claims about the Catalyst 3.8 Drivers have been sent in great detail to ATi, I shall await their response tomorrow and keep you all updated.

pseudonym · October 2003

I don't know what the deal is here. The only reason I switched back was because everyone else freaked, and I figured I might as well be safe. I ran the 3.8s on my flashed 9800 since the 3.8s were out and never developed any problems. That card is also in a Shuttle, and my case temps are higher than a normal PC (36 C!!). I'm tempted to switch back over and see if I can get it to do anything. Maybe if I'm lucky it'll fry that darn Phillps monitor that doesn't have an auto resize.........

EQuito · October 2003

The originator of the discussions at Short-Media forums has been contacted by ATI who have yet to see meaningful proof supporting the alleged issues.

Breaking news!
Anonymous sources confirm sightings of the "originator" crossing the border into Mexico...

TheSmJ · October 2003

I think this "monitor killing" issue is nothing more than a rumor. Only monitors made during/before '95 would attempt to display an image at a refresh rate it could not display.

Again, this is bull****.

Geeky1 · October 2003

TheSmJ, I'm inclined to agree with what you, Doc Overclock, ATi, and others have said- that this is BS. However, what else could explain the seeming sudden rash of monitor deaths?

Enverex · October 2003

As I said in the original thread (heh, some of the above sounds familiar) it couldn't be the refresh rates, it has to be something else, and thats what we need to find out....

NS

tarot · October 2003

Hi i,m new here but i wanted to pipe up about this.
I saw this thread and just giggled ...reminded me of the ol melt your hard drive virus.
but then i decided to test the theory.
now i have aHIS 9600pro with 128 meg of 3.3ns memory so basically 300/600 is as far is i could stretch but the core had a fair bit in her...namely 460 without any issues up to 490, after that she would go nuts

now i install a iceberq cooler and ramsinks, tested the temps and down they went with a laser thermal pointer and the old finger method.

now i then installed the 3.8 cats
now the best i could go is 460 without lockups

also i found at that i was getting staggering in games and basically unstable.

went back to the 3.7 drivers

back up to 460 stable 490 so so

same cooler same environment.

the monitor issue i never noticed so cant comment.

now people who are running stock wouldnt see this issue unless there card was released close to the limits (in my opinion)

so there you have it.

i,ll be keeping a beady eye on this thread

startledpancake · October 2003

I have offered to send a video of the refresh rate switching in action, but havnt had a response. ATI do have control over refresh rates, they force rates above the XP 60 hz default in direct3d.

Gobbles · October 2003

if sent into a resolition or refresh rate out of their range will tell you so with a message that says that the signal is out of range unless as previously mentioned its a really really old monitor circa 1995 or older. As for the drivers causing overheating... I think that someone is full of S**t... I like the Cat3.8, granted my card is an 8500, they fixed some artifacting and tearing issues in games that 3.7's had.

Camman · October 2003

NightShade737 had this to say
As I said in the original thread (heh, some of the above sounds familiar) it couldn't be the refresh rates, it has to be something else, and thats what we need to find out....

NS

I have to agree with NS and Geeky also though. It seems that ATi , as well as several others who would be 'in the know' on this kind of issue have refuted the point of the refresh rate causing this monitor failure. But, the sheer number of failures related to and immediately following the upgrade of the Catalyst 3.8 drivers, suggest that something in this upgrade is causing the monitor deaths. Like NS said, it's that something we need to find out.

Grossvart · October 2003

Nvidia release the 5700 ultra and 5950....... sudden unsubstantiated rumours of monitor death and graphic card overheating from Ati drivers.......... It smacks of Nvidia fanboy desperation stemming from image quality and frame rate envy..... GROW UP!

Geeky1 · October 2003

Grossvart, oh, I don't think nVidia is err, nVolved (

) in this... I mean, yeah, the GeForce FX is the single biggest flop in the history of the graphics card industry, if not the history of the entire computing history, but that's besides the point.

I really doubt that nVidia is behind this...

SimGuy · October 2003

The circumstances surrounding what occurred to my display hardware in front of my eyes have been submitted in detail to 3 different branches of ATI Canada's organization. I have been in very close contact with ATI's PR, Support and Software divisions over the last 24 hours regarding these suspected overheating and monitor refresh rate issues.

To think this was brought up because of a certain rival video card company is ludicrous at best.

Grossvart · October 2003

I did'nt say Nvidia, I said Nvidia fanboys.... if you cant read then you probably spilt your slurpee on the monitor.... as for your submission Ati have'nt had a single complaint yet so its hard to take you seriously

Grossvart · October 2003

I think the most damning evidence so far that this is a hoax comes from the respected hardware review sites themselves, after initially jumping on the story they very quickly either deleted the story or called it a hoax outright after investigation.... nuff said!

Geeky1 · October 2003

nVidia... nVidia fanboys... same difference. I doubt the "fanboys" did it either.

I think the most damning evidence so far that this is a hoax comes from the respected hardware review sites themselves, after initially jumping on the story they very quickly either deleted the story or called it a hoax outright after investigation.... nuff said!

Which sites?

Grossvart · October 2003

I think theres a pretty big difference between the developers of a graphics chipset and the 12 year old playing quake 3 with it

Geeky1 · October 2003

I was being sarcastic. But I don't think that nVidia's fanboys had anything to do with this either. I'm not big on conspiracy theories. Believing that nVidia or their fanboys were behind this is like believing that the CIA killed Kennedy, that we never landed on the moon, and that the FBI is watching your every move. It's absurd. Admittedly, the belief that nVidia's fanboys had something to do with this is less absurd than the belief that we never landed on the moon, but it's still rediculous. Possible, but unlikely.

primesuspect · October 2003

Grossvart, this whole discussion has remained quite civil and mature despite the volatile nature of the discussion at hand. Please don't ruin it by bringing your childish "spilt your slurpee on the monitor" comments to our forums.

And for your information, ATI has had several complaints about this issue. Many people from this forum have submitted complaints to both the support form, and directly to ATI staff. This has been independently verified by short-media management. So your comment is just plain wrong.

Also, please read the latest information before posting.

Thank you.

Grossvart · October 2003

oh ok, oswald killed kennedy (yeah right) and even though Ati have not received a single complaint and no hardware site is taking this story seriously...... the drivers are blowing up monitors..... I dont think we have to look too far for the absurd smoking gun here

primesuspect · October 2003

Grossvart had this to say
Ati have not received a single complaint and no hardware site is taking this story seriously......

as I just stated, your statement here is just plain wrong. Do you work for ATI to authoritatively answer this question? If not, please stop speculating on things you clearly know nothing about

Grossvart · October 2003

spilt slurpee.... its called humour, dont take life so seriously...... you know why christians dont have sex standing up dontcha?..... it might lead to dancing!

Geeky1 · October 2003

Grossvart, just out of curiosity, what video card(s) do you have in your computer(s)?

Grossvart · October 2003

show me some proof then? Ati could'nt replicate the alleged problem, they have'nt had a single complaint, they even went to their oem's and got a blank look....... i think this forum has compromised itself and to many outsiders it looks like a blatant play for publicity and web hits

primesuspect · October 2003

I'm not gonna bother reposting "proof" that's already been posted in the thread I already referenced.. Read the whole thing for yourself.

Geeky1 · October 2003

That doesn't answer the question. And while you are entitled to your opinion, you are incorrect. However, I don't really feel like arguing about it with you, since you've obviously already made your mind up, and I can't be bothered to put any effort into trying to change it.

Tell me something, though. If this site is so awful, and we'd stoop to inventing or publicizing something like this just for publicity, why did you go to the trouble of registering and posting?

Grossvart · October 2003

I have a Palit Daytona Ti4200 in one computer and a his excalibur 9700 pro in another, I'm not biased, I still think the ti4200 is the best price/performance card ever..... but this whole thing is ridiculous, I'm using the 3.8 cats and I'm risking a 19'' sony trinitron..... hmmm has'nt exploded yet, funny that

Grossvart · October 2003

well once again you have'nt really read what i said, I made the point that you open yourself up to the appearance of compromise to outsiders, you really should take the time to read my posts carefully, "the lips of wisdom are sealed except to the ears of understanding"

Grossvart · October 2003

the "proof" is in the pudding and you are going to bed with no dessert because you did'nt eat your peas

Geeky1 · October 2003

Just wanted to make sure you didn't have all ATi-based cards (which I do) and therefore might be expected to take a position that this is rediculous.

Also, I read your posts... your point is what? I see an exceptionally immature person, who has jumped to a conclusion (apparently) without reading the facts, and has decided to attempt to antagonize the membership of this site into "flaming" him or her.

If it isn’t broken…don’t fix it?

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