As a host of the best Folding Rig in the SMx project (SM19, you can pay me later for that line)...
um I think you mean SM21...#1 in total points among the SMx machines!
Here is my take...to build a good house you must have a solid foundation. It really upsets me to see SMx machines not turning in any WU's. (SM25, SM30, SM31, SM32 just to mention a couple) My first instinct is to say upgrade the older machines to get up to par. But, I also realize there are parts just sitting around that could be gotten out the door and folding.
I have upgraded SM21 on my own. I feel it is my responsibility to make sure she is folding the best that she can. I understand some hosts feel that just donating the electricity is enough, and I dont get angry if that is your viewpoint. The team does appreciate that greatly!
I have said that I am willing to host another rig, because I've notice the lack of people wanting to do. Now, I know there are several that are just waiting for the wonderful age of 18, but I remember when there was 10-15 people putting their name in the hat. Hell I had my name in the hat 9 times before being selected. But sometimes you have to just move on.
So we find ourself in a pickle. Invest time in getting older models up to par, knowing that it takes resources away from getting new machines folding, or put out new machines when the "interest in hosting" is not what it used to be.
Guess my opinion boils down to....if a host requests an upgrade to help with prodction, we should give him priority. But dont just do a mass "try to upgrade old rigs" campaign. Put the time/effort into getting new rigs FOLDING!
Judging by processing speed, SM_24 rides a thin line then. Dual 1.3ghz processors means two 1.3ghz clients. Do you want to replace it with a single newer system or keep its lovely 2.6ghz of lovely Linux crunching power running?
I have upgraded SM21 on my own. I feel it is my responsibility to make sure she is folding the best that she can. I understand some hosts feel that just donating the electricity is enough, and I dont get angry if that is your viewpoint. The team does appreciate that greatly!
I've upgraded SM19 from a AMD Athlon 1.4 (not 1400+) to a 1800+ to it's current 1900+. I too try my best to keep her safe, happy, and in a kick'n case. But as a SMx Committee member... It's not expected and being willing/ able to upgrade. As a committee I feel it is our responsibility to keep our SMx project as powerful as possible. If that means we issue rigs or keep the ones we have as fast as we can...
I voted for both, but mainly doing upgrades on the older, slower machines first. There are several machines that are with great hosts that keep them running well that have older, slower processors in them. I think anything that has a Tbird processor or even a single P3 processor is now getting to be too old and slow to justify the electricity usage. The Tbirds don't have SSE, which is a major stumbling block in points production.
As for upgrading them, there might be a few options though. Some of these older machines don't support a newer processor than a P3 or Tbird but do have a 4X AGP slot. For these machines, thought should be given to a possible gpu upgrade. The X1650 Pro would be a viable upgrade path, from the little I've read about them and gpu folding and a much better choice than the X1600 series. It has more pipelines and is also made on a smaller manufacturing process, lessening power draw. Also, Powercolor is supposed to be coming out with an AGP model of the X1950 Pro with 256 MB ram soon and this might be an intriguing choice if the price isn't too high. If the price on the X1950 Pro AGP isn't much over $200, I plan to try one out and see how it folds and if there are any problems with running the GPU client on my AGP rigs with it. But with GPU folding, processor speed isn't important at all so you could take all of the overclock off the rig, lessening the load on the psu too. Since the GPU client needs a core to poll the GPU client, the cpu won't have to actively do any folding and you could actually underclock the proc and drop vcore even more so that your psu has more available power for the gpu.
Let's see if we can dig up some hard data on the subject. The point made about the increased PSU requirements is a good one, too. We'll need to do some real research to make this a possibility.
Keep in mind these newer GPUs have quite a power draw, and as I recall most of the SMX rigs use old generic brand PSUs. I know from personal experience that’s a really bad combination if you’re looking for long-term stability out of a machine.
I vote replacing the old rigs with new ones, starting from the slowest to the fastest – replacing the CPU, RAM, mobo and the PSU if it’s not something beefy enough for modern hardware already.
Keep in mind these newer GPUs have quite a power draw, and as I recall most of the SMX rigs use old generic brand PSUs. I know from personal experience that’s a really bad combination if you’re looking for long-term stability out of a machine.
I vote replacing the old rigs with new ones, starting from the slowest to the fastest – replacing the CPU, RAM, mobo and the PSU if it’s not something beefy enough for modern hardware already.
On the other hand, would it be cheaper to replace the power supply and use existing machines as a sort of GPU life-support system? Might be able to upgrade a few SMx machines to GPU rigs for the price of building a new full-bore SMx machine?
On the other hand, would it be cheaper to replace the power supply and use existing machines as a sort of GPU life-support system? Might be able to upgrade a few SMx machines to GPU rigs for the price of building a new full-bore SMx machine?
Possibly, if they release X1900 AGP cards as is rumored. I haven't seen much data on X1600 folding yet, but what I've seen isn't very impressive.
I´d say fewer, but efficiently is better. My vote goes to update the old hardware.
Considering GPU folding for older machines now that the SMP client is available and providing a LOT of PPDs... I´d choose a small AMD X2 (or C2D)box (cheap mATX and memory) and that not only will consume less energy but provide the same, if not, more PPD than a dedicated 1900xtx (more considering a X1900GT, 1950Pro or 1600xt´s).
Just my 0.02
EDIT: adding to my opinion, no need for fancy PSUs with PCIe connectors would be needed. Just a mobo+dual core+memory and a cheap HDD (to install linux on it) -> 1000PPD at least.
I´d say fewer, but efficiently is better. My vote goes to update the old hardware.
Considering GPU folding for older machines now that the SMP client is available and providing a LOT of PPDs... I´d choose a small AMD X2 (or C2D)box (cheap mATX and memory) and that not only will consume less energy but provide the same, if not, more PPD than a dedicated 1900xtx (more considering a X1900GT, 1950Pro or 1600xt´s).
Just my 0.02
EDIT: adding to my opinion, no need for fancy PSUs with PCIe connectors would be needed. Just a mobo+dual core+memory and a cheap HDD (to install linux on it) -> 1000PPD at least.
Here's the thing. If you're doing that, you're basically buying a whole new rig. Why retire the old one? As long as the old one has some non-negative point output, the benefit is greater from rolling out an entirely new rig.
I'm here to make my hopefully more often guest appearance .
I think doing both, with the emphasis on upgrading is the way to go. We already have a lot of computers on the ground and it makes sense to ensure the power being donated by the hosts is being used effectively.
If you check out the "power cost" thread (its around), most people are paying $.05 - $.10 / kWhr in north america. A 200 watt computer can easily suck up $100-$200 worth of energy per year. Add to that the cost of cooling in the summer and it can begin to get pretty pricey.
On top of the power issue, a lot of time and effort was expended by the selection team to find appropriate hosts, it makes sense to upgrade those computers before they become completely obsolete.
One way to select the computers for upgrade would be to look at their potential versus the current folding@home points standardizing computer (currently a 2.8 GHz P4).
If 1/2 the potential of the standardizing computer was selected as the standardizing point then a ~1.5 GHz athlon XP (1600+??) or ~1.8 GHz P4 (old core) or ~2.0 GHz celeron might be the minimum. Don't quote me on those levels, they're approximations pulled out of my arse .
Assuming the standardizing computer upgrades over time, then our base minimum will also evolve with time in a way that makes sense if we're trying to maintain point output from the SMx machines.
Here's the thing. If you're doing that, you're basically buying a whole new rig. Why retire the old one? As long as the old one has some non-negative point output, the benefit is greater from rolling out an entirely new rig.
What I meant is that instead of purchasing an AGP card to "revive" the old computer, with the same money you could buy the cpu combo (motherb+cpu+ram) and it would not only produce more PPDs but consume less energy too, and you wouldnt need to buy a PSU with PCIe connector to feed the card.
Lets face it... some SMx computers are so old that "upgrading" should actually mean retire them for a new one. Thats my point.
One thing that would help us decide which rigs were in need of a complete makeover would be an updated list. I think a couple of the TBirds listed are no longer in service.
Prof may have a better plan on how to work this, but perhaps all the hosts should check the parts list and make sure it's correct, and if it's not, PM prof with the needed changes and let us know by posting here that something was updated.
Perhaps a new thread with the CPU/RAM/MOBO/PSU listed for each of the SMx rigs would help us decide on priorities and which rigs are good enough, for now.
Comments
um I think you mean SM21...#1 in total points among the SMx machines!
Here is my take...to build a good house you must have a solid foundation. It really upsets me to see SMx machines not turning in any WU's. (SM25, SM30, SM31, SM32 just to mention a couple) My first instinct is to say upgrade the older machines to get up to par. But, I also realize there are parts just sitting around that could be gotten out the door and folding.
I have upgraded SM21 on my own. I feel it is my responsibility to make sure she is folding the best that she can. I understand some hosts feel that just donating the electricity is enough, and I dont get angry if that is your viewpoint. The team does appreciate that greatly!
I have said that I am willing to host another rig, because I've notice the lack of people wanting to do. Now, I know there are several that are just waiting for the wonderful age of 18, but I remember when there was 10-15 people putting their name in the hat. Hell I had my name in the hat 9 times before being selected. But sometimes you have to just move on.
So we find ourself in a pickle. Invest time in getting older models up to par, knowing that it takes resources away from getting new machines folding, or put out new machines when the "interest in hosting" is not what it used to be.
Guess my opinion boils down to....if a host requests an upgrade to help with prodction, we should give him priority. But dont just do a mass "try to upgrade old rigs" campaign. Put the time/effort into getting new rigs FOLDING!
:smokin:
Nah, he meant IC6. You know, the one that's catching up to you, slowly.
@ Buddy Jesus, keep watching for the 32-bit SMP client. I've just installed the 64 bit on 1 rig and so far it looks good (for still being Beta).
169 days til you overtake me....pfffft!
I'll have tax return by then and when SM21 is running a quad core then we'll talk
As for upgrading them, there might be a few options though. Some of these older machines don't support a newer processor than a P3 or Tbird but do have a 4X AGP slot. For these machines, thought should be given to a possible gpu upgrade. The X1650 Pro would be a viable upgrade path, from the little I've read about them and gpu folding and a much better choice than the X1600 series. It has more pipelines and is also made on a smaller manufacturing process, lessening power draw. Also, Powercolor is supposed to be coming out with an AGP model of the X1950 Pro with 256 MB ram soon and this might be an intriguing choice if the price isn't too high. If the price on the X1950 Pro AGP isn't much over $200, I plan to try one out and see how it folds and if there are any problems with running the GPU client on my AGP rigs with it. But with GPU folding, processor speed isn't important at all so you could take all of the overclock off the rig, lessening the load on the psu too. Since the GPU client needs a core to poll the GPU client, the cpu won't have to actively do any folding and you could actually underclock the proc and drop vcore even more so that your psu has more available power for the gpu.
Good idea!
http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50798
I vote replacing the old rigs with new ones, starting from the slowest to the fastest – replacing the CPU, RAM, mobo and the PSU if it’s not something beefy enough for modern hardware already.
On the other hand, would it be cheaper to replace the power supply and use existing machines as a sort of GPU life-support system? Might be able to upgrade a few SMx machines to GPU rigs for the price of building a new full-bore SMx machine?
Considering GPU folding for older machines now that the SMP client is available and providing a LOT of PPDs... I´d choose a small AMD X2 (or C2D)box (cheap mATX and memory) and that not only will consume less energy but provide the same, if not, more PPD than a dedicated 1900xtx (more considering a X1900GT, 1950Pro or 1600xt´s).
Just my 0.02
EDIT: adding to my opinion, no need for fancy PSUs with PCIe connectors would be needed. Just a mobo+dual core+memory and a cheap HDD (to install linux on it) -> 1000PPD at least.
Here's the thing. If you're doing that, you're basically buying a whole new rig. Why retire the old one? As long as the old one has some non-negative point output, the benefit is greater from rolling out an entirely new rig.
I think doing both, with the emphasis on upgrading is the way to go. We already have a lot of computers on the ground and it makes sense to ensure the power being donated by the hosts is being used effectively.
If you check out the "power cost" thread (its around), most people are paying $.05 - $.10 / kWhr in north america. A 200 watt computer can easily suck up $100-$200 worth of energy per year. Add to that the cost of cooling in the summer and it can begin to get pretty pricey.
On top of the power issue, a lot of time and effort was expended by the selection team to find appropriate hosts, it makes sense to upgrade those computers before they become completely obsolete.
One way to select the computers for upgrade would be to look at their potential versus the current folding@home points standardizing computer (currently a 2.8 GHz P4).
If 1/2 the potential of the standardizing computer was selected as the standardizing point then a ~1.5 GHz athlon XP (1600+??) or ~1.8 GHz P4 (old core) or ~2.0 GHz celeron might be the minimum. Don't quote me on those levels, they're approximations pulled out of my arse
Assuming the standardizing computer upgrades over time, then our base minimum will also evolve with time in a way that makes sense if we're trying to maintain point output from the SMx machines.
Anyways, enough from me.
What I meant is that instead of purchasing an AGP card to "revive" the old computer, with the same money you could buy the cpu combo (motherb+cpu+ram) and it would not only produce more PPDs but consume less energy too, and you wouldnt need to buy a PSU with PCIe connector to feed the card.
Lets face it... some SMx computers are so old that "upgrading" should actually mean retire them for a new one. Thats my point.
Prof may have a better plan on how to work this, but perhaps all the hosts should check the parts list and make sure it's correct, and if it's not, PM prof with the needed changes and let us know by posting here that something was updated.
Perhaps a new thread with the CPU/RAM/MOBO/PSU listed for each of the SMx rigs would help us decide on priorities and which rigs are good enough, for now.