Linux on old IBM Thinkpad iSeries
Pterocarpous
Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
Hello All,
I have an o-l-d laptop
IBM Thinkpad iSeries
PII 365MHz
320MB RAM
It's just unbearable anymore as far as performance. Hardware-wise it's been a very reliable system all these years. The specs just don't cut it anymore, though and it's maxed out as far as any possible hardware upgrades are concerned.
I want to save up to buy another IBM laptop to replace this one but it'll be a while. I'm thinking I want to wait 'till Vista hits the streets.
In the interim, can I install Linux on this computer for better performance?
Would the performance improvement be worth the effort?
It would be my first Linux build so I'd be a newbie.
I'd like wordprocessing and Internet. That's about it. I'd prefer a GUI interface, too.
Which Linux (GNU?) would you recommend?
My concern is finding drivers to support the laptop's hardware (video, sound would be nice but not imperative, PCMCIA wired and wireless Netgear NICs)
What d'ya'll think?
I have an o-l-d laptop
IBM Thinkpad iSeries
PII 365MHz
320MB RAM
It's just unbearable anymore as far as performance. Hardware-wise it's been a very reliable system all these years. The specs just don't cut it anymore, though and it's maxed out as far as any possible hardware upgrades are concerned.
I want to save up to buy another IBM laptop to replace this one but it'll be a while. I'm thinking I want to wait 'till Vista hits the streets.
In the interim, can I install Linux on this computer for better performance?
Would the performance improvement be worth the effort?
It would be my first Linux build so I'd be a newbie.
I'd like wordprocessing and Internet. That's about it. I'd prefer a GUI interface, too.
Which Linux (GNU?) would you recommend?
My concern is finding drivers to support the laptop's hardware (video, sound would be nice but not imperative, PCMCIA wired and wireless Netgear NICs)
What d'ya'll think?
0
Comments
it is a lightweight 50MB Distro has all your basic functionality including MP3 support, as soon as they slap PCMCIA support in there you will have the distro you are looking for.
go to this link to look up more info about it:
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall
oh yeah, and just a heads up, IBM doesnt make laptops anymore, Lenovo bought that part of IBM out. So check into the Lenovo Thinkpad series.
Thankyou, Jengo for responding so quickly! Distro=distribution? I'll check it out. This is uncharted territory for me so I'm sure I'll have a lotta questions. How's this forum for Linux support?
Oh yes, that's right. I discovered Lenovo last night when researching IBM Thinkpads. Have you heard anything re: the quality since Lenovo took over? This has been one helluva machine. I'd like to invest in another one that's going to last me as long.
http://www.linuxquestions.org/
I havent heard anything bad since lenovo took over, then again.. Lenovo is China's Biggest PC manufacturer, its like the Dell of China, so im sure they make at least decent PCs
here is a little more information on Lenovo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo
here, i found another distro, although this one i havent tried. its called puppy linux here is what distrowatch has to say about it:
here is the website Link: http://www.puppylinux.org/user/viewpage.php?page_id=1
try that out, its a pretty small download and it doesnt hurt to try, it just runs off of the CD, it doesnt write anything to your harddrive, just pop it in your drive and boot off of the CD
let me know how it works out.
Thankyou for coming through again. I followed your links to the DSL distribution sites earlier today and was intrigued. The only rub being no PCMCIA support. Since the primary thing I want to be able to do w/ this old LT is surf the 'net, PCMCIA is imperative. DSL is promising, like you said, once they come out w/ PCMCIA support.
I created an acct at linuxquestions.org and posted in their LT forum, too. If they come back w/ anything, I'll let you know what they say. I'll give Puppy a try and see what it looks like.
Thanks again, Jengo! Really appreciate your hanging in there.
http://featherlinux.berlios.de/
Also, your laptop seems like it would be able to run DSL-N, which MAY have PCMCIA support. I'd also look into that if I were you.
edit:
btw i ran pcmcia on it too, for a pretty crappy modem. it's not that heavy, i was working with like 4 or 5 mb of ram and a 50 mb hdd so i KNOW you'll have no problems on your rig.
also check out
http://www.linux-laptop.net/
for some model-specific advice.
One thing that's making this whole exploring Linux thing difficult is the terminology. Although I've been a tech for years, my experience is limited to MS platforms (from MSDOS to present...). When it comes to Linux & Unix operating systems, I am a complete newbie.
So, when I hear things like "...slackware w/ fluxbox..." I'm not clear what you're talking about. I think that "slackware" is the Linux distribution (if I understand it correctly, a "distribution" is a variation on the Linux OS kernel) but I'm not sure what "Fluxbox" is. Is it a GUI that one can run on top of a Linux platform? If so, can one run only certain GUIs on a given Linux distribution?
with gnu/linux, *most* distributions let you peice together the windowing environment. the whole gui architecture is pretty different from your standard Windows stuff. you can run linux without a gui at all, like a lot of *nix OS. why i recommended debian or slackware is that you can install a very minimal base (less than 50 MB) and then piece together a windowing environment to suit your needs.
the very basic overview of linux is:
hardware -> kernel -> user level stuff
the user level stuff (usually) includes a shell or two(bsh, csh) with a package of basic commands (ls, cp, mv, sometimes tar etc).
on top of that you can have a windowing server (usually xfree86) and along with the windowing server you can install one of many window managers. unix typically uses a client/server architecture for it's graphical environments and naturally linux follows that model.
there are many different window managers (icewm, fvwm, enlightenment, etc) and the window managers work hand-in-hand with full-on desktop environments such as fluxbox, blackbox, gnome, kde, 3D-Desktop etc.
the reason some people like to run linux on older hardware is 1) for the fun of it and 2) because if you do it right, you can come up with faster alternatives to MS products.
edit
and yes, slackware is one of the older (if not oldest) linux distribution
http://www.slackware.org
and debian is older and the basis for many other distributions like ubuntu
http://www.debian.org
you can take a peek at
http://www.distrowatch.com
to compare a lot of the more popular distros
Except, he could always run something like debian using fluxbox, or something, something with with a package manager.
Slackware is more for the intermediate to advanced Linux User, it has no package manager, so you have to install everything manually, it may not be difficult for someone with knowledge of linux, but for a newbie its a nightmare.. omg i can remember when i started with slack... it was my first linux OS and it was a nightmare...
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/
read read read!!
here are some screenshots
Great news re: DSL, Jengo! Not a bad UI either? (thanx for the pretty pics) Would this apply to DSL-N, too?
P.S. "He" = "She", Jengo (see sig...)
Okayyyy. Thanx again ya'll. I'm hoping to take the plunge w/ my old critter (IBM Thinkpad) sometime this week. I just have to work up the nerve!
BTW, do I have to pay for a linux distro or any of that other stuff ya'll were mentioning? The reason I ask is I've seen Linux distributions in the stores for sale...
Oh and wouldnt go with DSL-N its a little bit bigger and youll probably take a performance hit.
500mhz PIII, 256MB RAM, 12GB HD, DVD-ROM
Thankyou, zero.counter. I checked it out. It looks nice and it looks as though it has everything I'd need. My only concern is that it's min requirements include a PIII processor. Mine is a PII365/320MB. I have plenty HDD capacity and could always change that out if I wanted to. I'm stuck, though w/ the processor and RAM.
They say on the site it might be ok for a PII class but might be slower. I don't want to end up in the same situation I'm in now w/ over loaded resources and a slow machine.
Have you seen that distro on a PII class machine?
Thank you zero.counter. I was concerned about DSL because they didn't have PCMCIA support. I think it was Jengo, just told me that DSL just brought PCMCIA support online. So it's a viable option, too. I'll check them both out.
Thanx again!
Fifty lashes w/ a wet noodle and all shall be forgiven master zero.counter!
I have tried Linux in the past on a similar laptop, actually your ThinkPad has a better processor even, and I didn't find it necessary to use scaled down distributions.
You will that find that during the setup of the the more "heavy" editions, you will have many options that will allow you to install only the software packages you need, so depending on the choices you make, you could create an installation that puts a smaller burden on your laptop processor and meets all your needs as well.
Without taking anything away from the DamnSmallLinux or the other alternatives that have been mentioned previously, I do think the kernels of the ubuntu or suse (novell) or redhat linux editions are far more reliable and you'd benefit more by using one of them instead if you're seriously considering Linux as an alternative.
I was wondering the other day.... How difficult would it be to add a Linux distro on my LT as a 2nd OS? I have multi-boot configured on both my desktops. I use the OS manager that comes w/ Acronis Disk Director Pro. I really like their OS manager. I've used other's in the past and found this one to be the most friendly and reliable to work w/. However, I've only worked w/ MS OSs w/ the Acronis OS Manager. Don't know what it would entail adding Linux.
Any ideas? Am I jumping into the deep end by doing that?
I didn't quite intend to relieve you by the way, because the suggestions in this thread have been really good to help guide someone who is a first timer with Linux.
The installation of any Linux distribution isn't too hard and dual-booting is in fact what many users do when they choose Linux since they keep their Windows installation as well. I'm not familiar with your boot manager though, but if Acronis recognises Linux partitions then you'll be able to continue using it.
The installation menus of most Linux distributions will offer numerous options for you to choose when it comes to creating the partitions Linux requires and selecting the boot manager you prefer.
However, I must also point out at this stage that before you start thinking about which Linux edition you're going to install, it's best to use a "live" demo of the ones you have short-listed and see what they are like by downloading the demo from the respective website and creating the CD. This will allow you to get a better feel of the most important features the Linux operating system has to offer without going into the hassle of making partitions and the like.
The CD is made is such way that it will give you a very accurate idea of what to expect without installing anything on your hard disk and then if you're satisfied with what it provides, you can move on and consider the full installation of that Linux distribution.
______
//EDIT:
I think most of the Linux releases will now actually offer you the demo option when you use the CD to do the full installation so there will not be a separate demo version as such available to download.
I will install SuSE 10 next week on one of the old laptops I have and do a customised minimal installation for it so I'll give you more feedback when it comes to using a new Linux distribution on an old less powerful laptop.
So, please, do let me know. I'm most definetely interested. It's gotten unbearable to use my laptop anymore. :sad2: I really like being able to be a slug and lounge on my bed or couch w/ my laptop when I'm not working (sometimes, when I'm workin', too, though :rolleyes2). As it is I'm having to walk a-l-l-l-l-l-l-l the way over (about 12 ft) to my computers (sigh....) and work from there. Very inconvenient... Not to mention, when I'm working w/ my desktop computers, I'm always havin' to fight my cat, Possum, for my chair and hold my adolescent kitten, ViVi, (who insists on my attention) in one arm while typing one-handed w/ the other! Again, not ideal when it comes to being a proper computer slug...
Fortunately, I had the opportunity to try several Linux distributions besides SuSE 10 that I originally intended to have a look at, and in the end I determined that ubuntu 5.04 and Puppy Linux are the ones that offer the greatest performance enhancement if I want to consider a Linux operating system instead of Windows.
Puppy Linux in fact is remarkably faster than any operating I have ever used but this speed comes at a cost of a greatly reduced kernel size which may lead to stability problems and perhaps a lower degree of security since the kernel is extremely compromised to suit only the simplest tasks. You could say it's a what you see is what you get kind of system and you just rely on the applications that it comes with or special packages that the team supporting this project specifically release for it. This has advantages and disadvantages but for a user that's new to Linux and just wants something fast and not so difficult to configure, it's probably the best choice. I compared Puppy Linux to Damn Small Linux as well and both are very fast but I found Puppy Linux more impressive and more reliable.
I installed Puppy Linux on the hard disk but since it is so small (less than 100 MB) I also thought of keeping it running entirely off the RAM à la virtual CD and the speed was even more impressive in that case.
Its limitations with respect to the poorer kernel however, made me choose ubuntu 5.04 for the laptop because it comes with a complete Linux kernel that offers all the security benefits of the Linux system and allows users to make all the configuration changes that they require as they customise the Linux environment according to their needs. I tried the latest ubuntu release (6.10) as well but the kernel demands are too high for the laptop and it is a lot slower than Windows XP on the same computer. Ubuntu 5.04 doesn't use the latest linux kernel but the 2.6.10 edition it carries is not out of date by any means with regards to security or hardware support and also allows the laptop to run faster than Windows XP when I perform similar basic operations.
Overall, if someone is considering Linux as an alternative option to Windows on a older computer with limited processor speed and RAM size, I'd recommend Puppy Linux for a simple hands-off approach with the small number of easy, user-friendly applications it comes with. For those that would prefer a more hands-on experience and have used Linux in the past but have a slow machine, I'd suggest one of the older ubuntu versions like 5.04 or 4.04 that still offer a complete and stable 2.6 series kernel without putting a great burden on a less powerful processor.