I am going to have to buy one next year if I end up going to U of M, their college of Art and Design mandates it. The unfortunate thing is the primary program I use, 3DS MAX, doesn't run on Macs.
Gentleman, it is so refreshing to see a MAC vs. PC discussion that is an intelligent discourse without flaming or useless cliches and absent of childish egos. You are giving Short-Media a good name! Thanks for a thread that is interesting to read and informative.
and for those of you with childish egos who are suppressing them...good job!
Ditto, ditto, ditto.
I've been avoiding this thread for that very reason. This topic usually brings out people whose opinion is based on the one platform they've used all their lives, except for the confusing 10 minutes they spent on someone else's computer.
It is really nice not to hear the usual you-are-stupid-to-use-anything-other-than-what-I-use uninformed stuff.
I use both on a regular basis (XP/2000 and OSX) I do like OSX's interface, actually about the only thing I don't like about it is the price and when it decides to crash when I'm in the middle of a design. XP is a pretty good OS, main thing I like about it is the compatibility of hardware and software. Things I don't like..security and stability.
That said I like the prospect of a mac laptop and a pc desktop.
When it comes down to it, macs are overpriced, most pc's aren't. Mac laptops are compact which is nice, but it comes with a big price increase.
What you mostly are paying for are the frills, not just it's size. Things like the magnetic power adapter, the way OSX functions, etc. But also, the primary thing you are going to pay for on top of that is the fact they have become very popular. Its ease of interface and sleek design is very appealing from many standpoints, and it's just up to the person if they want to pay for that.
It's more than frills. Mac hardware is very well designed and well engineered. Open one up, look at it. What you are paying for is something designed in America, the motherboard, the chipset, everything. The thermal engineering, the chosen materials, etc. Everything is top notch.
I disagree with Nomad though. If MACs were expensive because of their popularity, then a Windows machine would cost about 20 times as much. The other part of the reason they are expensive...besides what Prime said, is because there is one manufacturer. Period. One. And that one manufacturer controls it's retailers. You look for MACs on the net and tell me how many prices you see. There are two prices....regular, and student.
Then you go poke around and tell me how many companies are falling all over themselves to sell you a Windows machine. But that also means the average Windows buyer is a price buyer, not a quality buyer. That means there are some Windows stuff out there that can barely add 2 + 2.
Jobs really controls his platform. There are advantages to that...all Apple products talk to each other reasonably well, the hardware is always done well. But there are disadvantages, and price is high on that list.
I disagree with Nomad though. If MACs were expensive because of their popularity, then a Windows machine would cost about 20 times as much. The other part of the reason they are expensive...besides what Prime said, is because there is one manufacturer. Period. One. And that one manufacturer controls it's retailers. You look for MACs on the net and tell me how many prices you see. There are two prices....regular, and student.
Then you go poke around and tell me how many companies are falling all over themselves to sell you a Windows machine. But that also means the average Windows buyer is a price buyer, not a quality buyer. That means there are some Windows stuff out there that can barely add 2 + 2.
Jobs really controls his platform. There are advantages to that...all Apple products talk to each other reasonably well, the hardware is always done well. But there are disadvantages, and price is high on that list.
What Brian said is a good point and I agree. However, Windows isn't popular at all. For the longest time there was just no reliable alternative. Windows was popularized, and there is a significant difference between that and being trendy as Mac is now.
from limited personal experience with Macs I can't accurately say LOLMAX SUX or LOLBREAK TEH WINODW, but from what I have seen Macs are an excellant alternative to Windows, I love the OS X style, although when I first used it I found it difficult to use, not to say it is difficult to use but hey, I'm a windows user
And that's not strictly true, you can get a very good PC/laptop for a low price, you just usually get less widgets, which I'm sure you can download an alternative for somwhere anyway
I'm a firm Mac convert. My pc at home has been relegated to being a juiced up video game console as that's the only thing left to it where the PC excels.
Few things to consider, it's been largely mentioned but I'm throwing my hat in also. Mac's are more expensive if you look at the specs. However they are better engineered then a discount laptop, however if you compare them to say a non-discount laptop like a similarly spec'd lenovo T series they are in the same price range. In addition to that though on a Mac they come with some excellent software perks, the iLife package is amazing for video/photo editing and they also come with Garage band which is a premier package for any audio file. Some of these programs there are no really comparable alternatives on in the PC world or at least not in the same price range.
One other thing, the magnetic power cord has been mentioned. But let me just say I've had at least two encounters now where that magnetic power cord has saved a Macbook.
Plus on a mac you can, if you need to install windows in boot camp (for the dual boot method) or use parallels. Best of all if you install windows in boot camp you can also use that same partition as your parallels partition which is how I do it and it's really a best of both worlds situation. If I just need normal usage of something in windows I'll use it through parallels. If however it's more intensive and I need a full system resources I just go into boot camp.
One thing I feel it's worth noting about parallels is that it runs pretty good with 2gigs of ram, less then 2 gigs of ram and your machine will run slow, to the point of only using parallels if you need to. 2 gigs makes it generally usable and not to much of a system hog. However with 3 gigs of ram it flies and runs at almost near native speeds. Also parallels supports directX 8 so you can do some light gaming on it without having to dual boot into your boot camp partition.
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited March 2008
I think Macs are great for the person who just wants to purchase a computer the same way as a toaster, lawnmower, or clothes washer - off the shelf. For those of us who enjoy building our own, there is no choice. I would love to build a Mac and run OSX. Can't happen. My last boxed computer was a purchase in 1995. Except for laptops, I don't see myself plunking down money for something that a mass production factory (Mac or Intel format) decides is best for me.
Upgrades too. My computers are in a constant stage of incremental upgrades. That's very difficult with Mac. One source for motherboards - Apple. No competition. Priced accordingly.
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited March 2008
Then when you upgrade the PC up so that it's even comparable with what a standered mac can do, the pc ends up costing a whole heck of a lot more.
Depends on what PC. Big difference between a custom configured Dell or HP and wonder budget wheezer from Wal Mart. If you want to talk BIG BUCKS, start upgrading a Mac. Yes, out of the box, Macs have a very good standard, but couple years down the down the road, the upgrade cycle often leads to purchasing a new Mac rather than upgrading. Sure, there are plenty of Mac compatible parts, but often the price premium for them is exorbitant.
Big difference is a few years down the road there is still little need to upgrade a mac. They have a longer hardware life cycle. Also keep in mind that most PC's need to be upgraded to keep up with gaming. Because Mac's aren't gaming machines you don't follow into that need to upgrade.
For iMac's you are fairly limited to what you can do, they are basically as upgradeable as a laptop. You can upgrade the harddrive, CPU and Ram. However the Ram is the only really serviceable upgrade. The harddrive and CPU require you to open up your iMac and really get your hands dirty, not for the timid. I've done it and it requires a good amount of work.
However if you want to be the big pimp daddy. Get a PowerMac. It's a full tower upgradeable and fully expandable to your hearts dream.
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited March 2008
Big difference is a few years down the road there is still little need to upgrade a mac. They have a longer hardware life cycle. Also keep in mind that most PC's need to be upgraded to keep up with gaming. Because Mac's aren't gaming machines you don't follow into that need to upgrade.
I'll agree with what most people have said here- Macs- Better for video/art stuff, PCs- better for gaming, PC- cheaper. Macs are well made machines, I'll give you that, but they just seem overpriced to me, and the friends I know who's Macs have broken have been SOL sometimes, because the Macs upgrade so fast. My friend Ken's mac broke, and they had to do a worldwide search to fix the missing part, and his mac was only 3 years old. Ironically, his Dad bought him a new mac, and then they found the part.
Besides that though, I get turned off by macs just because of all they hype. Everyone I know just LOOOOVES THEM, and it seems to me that it's just a huge trend thing. I mean, I'm probably just biased because I had such bad luck with Ipods, but while I think that Macs ARE good machines, and ARE innovative, they really aren't as fantastic as everyone says.
Just don't get a dell. Trust me. Don't get a dell.
Dell serves their purpose. I wouldn't personally buy one (or any other pre-build) for home use, but I buy the hell out of the Dell Vostro and Dell Precision lines for my clients. They are good quality hardware for a decent price and don't come loaded with crapware as they are meant for the workplace.
Mac ftw. I've had mine (MacBoook) since last summer and haven't regretted the investment for a moment. I use Photoshop on it, program, play around in the shell, used to play WoW... pretty much does it all. I really can't think of a reason NOT to get one
Well, from what I've seen, an average Dell computer performs as well as a regular laptop of the same price, bad integrated graphics, bad sound, they're slow and I've actually had friends ask me to come and remove alot of crap that came with their Dells, perhaps US Dells are different
Dell serves their purpose. I wouldn't personally buy one (or any other pre-build) for home use, but I buy the hell out of the Dell Vostro and Dell Precision lines for my clients. They are good quality hardware for a decent price and don't come loaded with crapware as they are meant for the workplace.
My dell, which is a laptop I got for school use, is a piece of crap that forgets to charge the battery half the time, and the battery is only a year and a half old (the laptop is 3). We got way overcharged on it too.
BUT, at the end of the day it will be a cold day in hell before I recommend a different OEM (gateway/compaq/hp/generic brand here) to my friends and family who aren't tech savvy enough to build their own machines.
I've been video editting for 3 years and going. Perhaps it's just my tasks: sports and theatric. I can do it with a PC laptop. I've seen Macs and play with them, been shown a couple ... and I still can find no compelling reason to convert. I don't know why I'd spend the extra $. The big weakness in a PC is the same as it is in a Mac: The Hard Drive.
I'm a working professional and there're no advantages for me there. I'm also a hobbyist amateur in video editting that sees no benefit going to a Mac. I can't for the life of me figure out why I would want a high-end gaming video spoiling on my LT, so I can play dang near anything at lower settings. In short, I'm squarely in the other camp- unless I require it I'll pocket the money I saved in not getting a Mac.
You know Mac's make desktops too and that's where most video editing is done. Price a 17" iMac vs any other comparable box brand and the iMac is extremely well priced.
Big difference is a few years down the road there is still little need to upgrade a mac. They have a longer hardware life cycle. Also keep in mind that most PC's need to be upgraded to keep up with gaming. Because Mac's aren't gaming machines you don't follow into that need to upgrade.
Unless you're buying a gaming laptop, I see very little difference in lifecycle length. If you were talking about a gaming laptop, then you're not comparing apples to apples, IMO.
To me, an HP/Dell/Acer/Gateway/whatever purchased for web browsing and word processing has the same hardware lifecycle as the MacBook you buy.
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited March 2008
Not quite sure what you mean by "lifecycle." Of the Mac owners I've known who purchased their Macs new, they seem to keep them longer. For whatever reason, the seem to be satisfied with their machines for longer than 'Intel' PC buyers.
But again, I look at both camps and just shake my head. My machines are continually upgraded. It's actually hard to tell you when one of my computers actually is new - they are never actually 'new' or 'old,' just evolving. In my mind, my machines win the longevity award.
Comments
Ditto, ditto, ditto.
I've been avoiding this thread for that very reason. This topic usually brings out people whose opinion is based on the one platform they've used all their lives, except for the confusing 10 minutes they spent on someone else's computer.
It is really nice not to hear the usual you-are-stupid-to-use-anything-other-than-what-I-use uninformed stuff.
That said I like the prospect of a mac laptop and a pc desktop.
What you mostly are paying for are the frills, not just it's size. Things like the magnetic power adapter, the way OSX functions, etc. But also, the primary thing you are going to pay for on top of that is the fact they have become very popular. Its ease of interface and sleek design is very appealing from many standpoints, and it's just up to the person if they want to pay for that.
I disagree with Nomad though. If MACs were expensive because of their popularity, then a Windows machine would cost about 20 times as much. The other part of the reason they are expensive...besides what Prime said, is because there is one manufacturer. Period. One. And that one manufacturer controls it's retailers. You look for MACs on the net and tell me how many prices you see. There are two prices....regular, and student.
Then you go poke around and tell me how many companies are falling all over themselves to sell you a Windows machine. But that also means the average Windows buyer is a price buyer, not a quality buyer. That means there are some Windows stuff out there that can barely add 2 + 2.
Jobs really controls his platform. There are advantages to that...all Apple products talk to each other reasonably well, the hardware is always done well. But there are disadvantages, and price is high on that list.
What Brian said is a good point and I agree. However, Windows isn't popular at all. For the longest time there was just no reliable alternative. Windows was popularized, and there is a significant difference between that and being trendy as Mac is now.
Then when you upgrade the PC up so that it's even comparable with what a standered mac can do, the pc ends up costing a whole heck of a lot more.
And that's not strictly true, you can get a very good PC/laptop for a low price, you just usually get less widgets, which I'm sure you can download an alternative for somwhere anyway
Few things to consider, it's been largely mentioned but I'm throwing my hat in also. Mac's are more expensive if you look at the specs. However they are better engineered then a discount laptop, however if you compare them to say a non-discount laptop like a similarly spec'd lenovo T series they are in the same price range. In addition to that though on a Mac they come with some excellent software perks, the iLife package is amazing for video/photo editing and they also come with Garage band which is a premier package for any audio file. Some of these programs there are no really comparable alternatives on in the PC world or at least not in the same price range.
One other thing, the magnetic power cord has been mentioned. But let me just say I've had at least two encounters now where that magnetic power cord has saved a Macbook.
Plus on a mac you can, if you need to install windows in boot camp (for the dual boot method) or use parallels. Best of all if you install windows in boot camp you can also use that same partition as your parallels partition which is how I do it and it's really a best of both worlds situation. If I just need normal usage of something in windows I'll use it through parallels. If however it's more intensive and I need a full system resources I just go into boot camp.
One thing I feel it's worth noting about parallels is that it runs pretty good with 2gigs of ram, less then 2 gigs of ram and your machine will run slow, to the point of only using parallels if you need to. 2 gigs makes it generally usable and not to much of a system hog. However with 3 gigs of ram it flies and runs at almost near native speeds. Also parallels supports directX 8 so you can do some light gaming on it without having to dual boot into your boot camp partition.
Upgrades too. My computers are in a constant stage of incremental upgrades. That's very difficult with Mac. One source for motherboards - Apple. No competition. Priced accordingly.
For iMac's you are fairly limited to what you can do, they are basically as upgradeable as a laptop. You can upgrade the harddrive, CPU and Ram. However the Ram is the only really serviceable upgrade. The harddrive and CPU require you to open up your iMac and really get your hands dirty, not for the timid. I've done it and it requires a good amount of work.
However if you want to be the big pimp daddy. Get a PowerMac. It's a full tower upgradeable and fully expandable to your hearts dream.
Besides that though, I get turned off by macs just because of all they hype. Everyone I know just LOOOOVES THEM, and it seems to me that it's just a huge trend thing. I mean, I'm probably just biased because I had such bad luck with Ipods, but while I think that Macs ARE good machines, and ARE innovative, they really aren't as fantastic as everyone says.
Just don't get a dell. Trust me. Don't get a dell.
You say potato, I say BURN DELL
Dell serves their purpose. I wouldn't personally buy one (or any other pre-build) for home use, but I buy the hell out of the Dell Vostro and Dell Precision lines for my clients. They are good quality hardware for a decent price and don't come loaded with crapware as they are meant for the workplace.
My dell, which is a laptop I got for school use, is a piece of crap that forgets to charge the battery half the time, and the battery is only a year and a half old (the laptop is 3). We got way overcharged on it too.
BUT, at the end of the day it will be a cold day in hell before I recommend a different OEM (gateway/compaq/hp/generic brand here) to my friends and family who aren't tech savvy enough to build their own machines.
I'm a working professional and there're no advantages for me there. I'm also a hobbyist amateur in video editting that sees no benefit going to a Mac. I can't for the life of me figure out why I would want a high-end gaming video spoiling on my LT, so I can play dang near anything at lower settings. In short, I'm squarely in the other camp- unless I require it I'll pocket the money I saved in not getting a Mac.
That, by the way, is the only Mac I'd buy, myself. That is one hell of a machine.
Unless you're buying a gaming laptop, I see very little difference in lifecycle length. If you were talking about a gaming laptop, then you're not comparing apples to apples, IMO.
To me, an HP/Dell/Acer/Gateway/whatever purchased for web browsing and word processing has the same hardware lifecycle as the MacBook you buy.
But again, I look at both camps and just shake my head. My machines are continually upgraded. It's actually hard to tell you when one of my computers actually is new - they are never actually 'new' or 'old,' just evolving.