WTH?! BIOS Flash Fixed Memory Fail Problem???

PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
edited January 2007 in Hardware
Ok, this isn't a double-post, honest. I wanted to call attention to this specific question as a result of some findings I just learned of.

THIS is the thread here re: trouble-shooting the problem.

To summarize the thread, the system was rebooting. MEMTEST86 & ORTHOS were failing. System was spontaneously rebooting. System had a history of overheating (esp. in summer) but BIOS didn't show CPU temps to be too bad. Plus, I shut the system down for two hours and the problems returned right away when I turned it back on.

Just called the shop (I had the system build under warranty) and they said a BIOS flash fixed the problem... WTH????!!!!????!!!!????!!!!

Then, they mentioned in passing that they replaced the HSA w/ a copper one... hmmmmm..... :skeptic:

REAL problem was processor overheating??? Or is this common - flashing the BIOS cures spontaneous rebooting and memory failing diagnostics..... :scratch:

I had just updated the BIOS a few months ago. System is only 6mo. Asus M2V mobo.

Just in case, I told them to leave it burning in over night. They said it'd been running for two hours under Orthos w/ no errors.
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Comments

  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    Has the system always had this problem since it was new?

    How old is it?

    Are there details on make of motherboard, CPU, etc?

    Without knowing more it actually sounds more like the possibility of a PSU gone bad.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    Yes, with enthusiast motherboards, BIOS updates often fix many problems.. Our problems with the Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe lasted for months before several BIOS revisions finally seemed to cure the problem and really make the motherboard shine.
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    Mt_Goat wrote:
    Has the system always had this problem since it was new?
    How old is it?
    Are there details on make of motherboard, CPU, etc?
    Without knowing more it actually sounds more like the possibility of a PSU gone bad.
    Asus M2V v1.01G Socket AM2
    AMI BIOS
    AMD Athlon 64 3800+ / 2400MHz
    1024MB DDR2 RAM

    Had it built out for me back in September of last year. (Get warranty if they do the build.)

    Well, I'll be damned, Primesuspect. I'd have never thought the BIOS firmware was the culprit. Good grief! Man, I was ready to ....oooooo.... I don't know. I'm just mad! I could have updated that BIOS this weekend and been done w/ it for you-know-what's sake! :rant: Here I am schlepin' all weekend w/ the &*^(%$# thang and I could o' just flashed the BIOS..... (I know, I said that already....)
    oOOOOOOOoooo I'm steamin'

    So, I'm guessing that the title of my thread (Stress Prime 2004 Orthos Errors) is not a title that's going to draw attention????? There was only one person that posted there (csimon, bless your heart) or attempted to help. :bawling:

    EDIT://
    The system was fine until about a week ago when, out of the blue of the western sky, it started spontaneously rebooting once in a while. The problem deteriorated rapidly until, this weekend, it was dead in the water.
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    Totally agreed....bios flashes cure memory problems all the time :D
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    RyderOCZ wrote:
    Totally agreed....bios flashes cure memory problems all the time :D
    Well, I am truly humbled. Now I know (the hard way). Thankyou RyderOCZ. :rolleyes2

    I can accept that flashing the BIOS cures the problem. ....I just don't understand (technically) why the problem surfaces in the first place. Something has to have changed or changed state. Does the firmware become corrupted or otherwise degraded and that's why a flash cures the problem? Because, w/out hardware changes (or software) that require added functionality, I don't see what the BIOS has to do w/ it unless this is the case..... that "flashing" the BIOS effectively "refreshes" the firmware - whether the flash is an upgrade or not is inconsequential - what's needed is the refreshed BIOS.... :scratch:
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    There are literally 20 - 35 memory timings depending on what chipset is on the motherboard.

    Most Motherboards give you control of 4 -6...there are several that give you control over 15+ now, but its still not everything.

    The ones you can't control are preset by the manufacturers in the bios code. Once a board has been released, there can be issues discovered due to timings that are too "tight", so a new bios release will have some of them relaxed to make things work correctly.

    The errors you were seeing could have been from those timings being too tight...now that they are relaxed....everything works as it should.
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    primesuspect wrote:
    Yes, with enthusiast motherboards, BIOS updates often fix many problems.. Our problems with the Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe lasted for months before several BIOS revisions finally seemed to cure the problem and really make the motherboard shine.
    Very informative, PrimeSuspect (on the Asus board). I'll get the system back tomorrow. I'll take a look at the BIOS then consult you all re: how I might optimize it for the most stable settings. The black vs the yellow slots really caught my attention. I've been running the system w/ the RAM installed to the two yellow slots. I'll switch them over to the black slots to start with.

    Thankyou again!
  • DonutDonut Maine New
    edited January 2007
    Don't feel bad, I had read your thread and a bios update never occurred to me.
    Most of my boards are old enough when I purchase them to have a mature bios installed.

    Now I also know, Thanks!
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    RyderOCZ wrote:
    There are literally 20 - 35 memory timings depending on what chipset is on the motherboard.
    Most Motherboards give you control of 4 -6...there are several that give you control over 15+ now, but its still not everything.
    The ones you can't control are preset by the manufacturers in the bios code. Once a board has been released, there can be issues discovered due to timings that are too "tight", so a new bios release will have some of them relaxed to make things work correctly.
    The errors you were seeing could have been from those timings being too tight...now that they are relaxed....everything works as it should.
    Thankyou, RyderOCZ. I'm looking forward to learning about this. I've never futzed w/ the BIOS settings that way b4. Thought that was just for those into overclocking. Looks like regular folks can benefit by tweaking the BIOS, too.

    Why do you think it started rebooting out of the blue like that, though? If the tolerances were too tight, why didn't if fail from the beginning do you reckon?
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    My point of asking if it has been ongoing since new would certainly indicate a bios problem. But if the problem either just built up over time or suddenly appeared then I would suspect something else. But being an Asus AM2 board I would try flashing to the newest bios first.
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    Well, if it was working fine for more than a week...then I would tend to doubt what the "fix it shop" says. I was merely trying to point out that a bios flash can and does fix memory problems all the time (like 8 times a day for me..hehe )
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    Donut wrote:
    Don't feel bad, I had read your thread and a bios update never occurred to me.
    Most of my boards are old enough when I purchase them to have a mature bios installed.
    Now I also know, Thanks!
    Hey Donut. If someone else can benefit from my war wounds then all is not lost. :smiles: I guess my motherboard's BIOS is ....hmmmm... immature?? ;D Seriously, though. I know what you're talking about. Last year both my desktop systems rolled over and died - 6 months apart. Like you, I'd run them for years and they were solid as tanks. Now I'm into these two new systems w/ new fangled hardware and I'm yearning for the old days.... sigh...
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    RyderOCZ wrote:
    Well, if it was working fine for more than a week...then I would tend to doubt what the "fix it shop" says. I was merely trying to point out that a bios flash can and does fix memory problems all the time (like 8 times a day for me..hehe )
    Oh, I appreciate you're input. Believe me, it's squireled away in the ol' bean now. Like you, though, I'm doubting the "fix". The system was fine for 6 months. Then suddenly it developed this rebooting problem. That's why I told them to leave it burning in overnight. We'll see what shakes out, right?
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    Ah ...a bios update cure! Congrats Ptero. That never dawned on me either but I always assume the bios is up to date I suppose.
    If you go to the Asus website they'll probably list the fixes of that bios revision which may be a clue for you ...or may not.
    Probably fixed something with the mem controller or chipset who knows.
    Glad you're getting it worked out though!
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    Mt_Goat wrote:
    My point of asking if it has been ongoing since new would certainly indicate a bios problem. But if the problem either just built up over time or suddenly appeared then I would suspect something else. But being an Asus AM2 board I would try flashing to the newest bios first.
    Definetly I know to check that from now on. It's the timing that's all wrong to me. Something had to have changed - corrupted firmware, damaged CMOS, something. I'm wondering if the flash is a cure or a bandaid. (That, because of some sort of instability or degraded condition of some component(s) that the problem will resurface...)
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    csimon wrote:
    Ah ...a bios update cure! Congrats Ptero. That never dawned on me either but I always assume the bios is up to date I suppose.
    If you go to the Asus website they'll probably list the fixes of that bios revision which may be a clue for you ...or may not.
    Probably fixed something with the mem controller or chipset who knows.
    Glad you're getting it worked out though!
    Thanx, csimon. I'll know more tomorrow. They're supposed to leave it burning in overnight. I'm going to consult w/ you all re: configuring memory timing, voltages, etc. (stuff that you mentioned more than once but that I discounted because I'm not into overclocking... I think I'm gonna have to eat my hat...! :dunce: )
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    Now, if it is true that a flash fixed it...your right...the CMOS/bios could have become corrupt and now its not.
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    RyderOCZ wrote:
    Now, if it is true that a flash fixed it...your right...the CMOS/bios could have become corrupt and now its not.
    Exactly! Now the question is, was that a transitory occurance or does it portend ill wind w/ respect to the health of my motherboard????? :skeptic:
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    Pterocarpous wrote:
    Exactly! Now the question is, was that a transitory occurance or does it portend ill wind w/ respect to the health of my motherboard????? :skeptic:
    Hmmm.....me thinks I need to go to the dictionary... :scratch:;D

    Anyway....it may be a precursor to bad things with the motherboard :(
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    RyderOCZ wrote:
    Hmmm.....me thinks I need to go to the dictionary... :scratch:;D
    Anyway....it may be a precursor to bad things with the motherboard :(
    Don't feel like The Lone Ranger. Folks here send me running to online references (including dictionary.com) all the time! (Guess what, I couldn't remember how to spell "portend"... had to look it up 1st... :crazy:)

    That's what I'm thinking. If it's gonna fail, I want it to fail while the system's in warranty. So I'm gonna stress the you know what out of it when I get it back.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    I found the problem!

    It is a VIA chipset board with the VIA® K8T890. eeewwwww! :-/


    Linkie
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    Mt_Goat wrote:
    I found the problem!
    It is a VIA chipset board with the VIA® K8T890. eeewwwww! :-/
    Linkie
    You are a dolllllll, Mt_Goat!!!!! Lemmeee zip over there an check your find out!! Yippee!! :D
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    Mt_Goat wrote:
    I found the problem!
    It is a VIA chipset board with the VIA® K8T890. eeewwwww! :-/
    Linkie
    Dad' burn it 'Goat! I thought you'd found a fix or some such....:(
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    Pterocarpous wrote:
    Dad' burn it 'Goat! I thought you'd found a fix or some such....:(
    Sorry if I got your hopes up. But VIA is like the plague around here. It is never good and nothing good ever comes of it. All it ever seems to do is get worse. :mouldy:
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    Exactly! Now the question is, was that a transitory occurance or does it portend ill wind w/ respect to the health of my motherboard?????
    Eat generous servings of dark green, leafy vegetables and watch those trans-fatty acids and hydrogenated vegetable oils, then you should be OK.
  • nonstop301nonstop301 51° 27' 24.87" N // 0° 11' 38.91" W Member
    edited January 2007
    Don't underestimate the value of the BIOS flash fix Pterocarpous :)

    Your AM2 motherboard is still considered new and remember it uses DDR2 as well which despite the wide availability, is still in its very early days too.

    Many new BIOS fixes will appear for your board to provide better compliance with DDR2 memory.
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    nonstop301 wrote:
    Don't underestimate the value of the BIOS flash fix Pterocarpous :)
    Your AM2 motherboard is still considered new and remember it uses DDR2 as well which despite the wide availability, is still in its very early days too.
    Many new BIOS fixes will appear for your board to provide better compliance with DDR2 memory.
    Oh, I'll definetly keep it in mind from now on. And that's very helpful information re: the AM2 and DDR2 being fairly new and "immature" (to quote someone else in this thread) technologies.

    In this case, however, I STILL don't see the logic of why it would, after 6 months, suddenly fail. That is what is not making sense to me. I guess it's bringing out the old tech. in me and I'm wanting it to make sense of it logically. There has to have been a cause and effect. e.g. A happened ergo B happened as a result.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    It is a VIA chipset board with the VIA® K8T890. eeewwwww!
    I will never again touch anything remotely associated with a VIA chipset! Whether or not it is the culprit this time, I don't have first hand experience with chipset in question. But most of my first hand experience with VIA (lots of it) was indeed unpleasant. I was SO glad when nVidia came out with nForce and nForce 2. Gone was the laugh, cry, and cross your fingers of getting all your drivers to work with the goofy chipset.
    Your AM2 motherboard is still considered new and remember it uses DDR2 as well which despite the wide availability, is still in its very early days too.

    DDR2 has been out WELL over a year and has been working flawlessly on boards from probably all the manufacturers. Again, I don't know whether it's the VIA chipset that's causing the problems or not, it has nothing to do with the DDR2 itself, unless the particular modules have developed faults. Not flaming you Nonstop, your technical input is usually very good. :)
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    Leonardo wrote:
    I will never again touch anything remotely associated with a VIA chipset! Whether or not it is the culprit this time, I don't have first hand experience with chipset in question. But most of my first hand experience with VIA (lots of it) was indeed unpleasant. I was SO glad when nVidia came out with nForce and nForce 2. Gone was the laugh, cry, and cross your fingers of getting all your drivers to work with the goofy chipset.
    DDR2 has been out WELL over a year and has been working flawlessly on boards from probably all the manufacturers. Again, I don't know whether it's the VIA chipset that's causing the problems or not, it has nothing to do with the DDR2 itself, unless the particular modules have developed faults. Not flaming you Nonstop, your technical input is usually very good. :)
    Thankyou, Loenardo. I tell ya. Though this has been a very frustrating experience (and I've spewed my allotment for the month of bad words in the process...) it is proving to be a good learning experience. I've appreciated everyone's input. You've all opened my eyes to techniques, issues, etc. that I wasn't aware of before.

    W/ respect to VIA being unreliable, I wasn't aware of that. I've always preferred Asus mobos. My systems that finally died last year were Asus and they were (I forget how many) years old (still had ISA slots if that gives you an idea). I ran them 24/7 just as I do my new systems, too. Now I'm questioning Asus' reliability.

    I have a Gigabyte mobo on my other desktop (that I let the builder talk me into :shakehead ) which I have sworn off as well. I've had onboard components fail on this board (NIC + possible flakey USB port(s)) In both cases the issues were very subtle and would likely have gone unnoticed by most. (In fact, I couldn't even get a warranty replacement because the builder couldn't replicate the problems.) In the end, to correct the issues, I had to install an USB controller and NIC... Anyway, no more Gigabyte either...

    Having said that, whose mobo do I buy now??? :scratch:
  • nonstop301nonstop301 51° 27' 24.87" N // 0° 11' 38.91" W Member
    edited January 2007
    Leonardo wrote:
    DDR2 has been out WELL over a year and has been working flawlessly on boards from probably all the manufacturers. Again, I don't know whether it's the VIA chipset that's causing the problems or not, it has nothing to do with the DDR2 itself, unless the particular modules have developed faults.

    There are no doubts about the reliability and superiority of DDR2 of course :) And better DDR2 sticks are yet to come still :)

    I was focusing more on the AM2 socket / DDR2 combination which is still very new and the only way for AM2 motherboard manufacturers to address any faults in their very first AM2 boards that were launched, is through BIOS fixes to ensure the desired overall compatibility. It's just over 6 months since the AM2 arrived here in Europe and I purchased one from Asus with the nVIDIA chipset around the same time as Pterocarpous got hers. I haven't had any problems with the DDR2 memory but I still get the latest BIOS for it nonetheless, since you never know what can happen with these early editions of motherboards for a brand new socket :)
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