It seems that the PS3 is more than 10X powerful as an average PC. Why doesn't it get 10X PPD as well?
We balance the points based on both speed and the flexibility of the client. The GPU client is still the fastest, but it is the least flexible and can only run a very, very limited set of WU's. Thus, its points are not linearly proportional to the speed increase. The PS3 takes the middle ground between GPU's (extreme speed, but at limited types of WU's) and CPU's (less speed, but more flexibility in types of WU's). We have picked the PS3 as the natural benchmark machine for PS3 calculations and set its points per day to 900 to reflect this middle ground between speed (faster than CPU, but slower than GPU) and flexibility (more flexible than GPU, less than CPU).
You would have to read the whole article to get an understanding but, honestly, I find this disappointing.
The bottom line is that WUs are being tailored to your CPU’s capability and mission. That of the PS3 (for now) is as follows:
The PS3 right now runs what are called implicit solvation calculations, including some simple ones (sigmodal dependent dielectric) and some more sophisticated ones (AGBNP, a type of Generalized Born method from Prof. Ron Levy's group at Rutgers). In this respect, the PS3 client is much like our GPU client. However, the PS3 client is more flexible, in that it can also run explicit solvent calculations as well, although not at the same speed increase relative to PC's. We are working to increase the speed of explicit solvent on the PS3 and would then run these calculations on the PS3 as well. In a nutshell, the PS3 takes the middle ground between GPU's (extreme speed, but at limited types of WU's) and CPU's (less speed, but more flexibility in types of WU's).
Until more variety and missions become available to the PS3, this seems to be a pretty rigid structure.
So don’t trade in your more versatile Opterons and C2Ds- there are points for those willing to chance beta clients and WUs- or happen to land WUs that fit their cache. Point-wise, you may be able to best the PS3.
So don’t trade in your more versatile Opterons and C2Ds- there are points for those willing to chance beta clients and WUs- or happen to land WUs that fit their cache. Point-wise, you may be able to best the PS3.
But at what price? to put a sweet C2D rig or even a Dual Opty rig together would cost almost double a PS3
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited March 2007
The same was said about GPUs - the world would be saved due to the sheer processing power. It didn't pan out. Theoretical power and practical applications are often not the same. GPUs, PS3 - whatever the promise of the day - it's nothing new. Every year tech news if full of the next "revolution" that turns out to be merely an improvement, or an evolution.
I have no doubt that Stanford will provide whatever incentives are necessary to get the biggest return on investment for the advancement of Folding@Home. I can't explain the technical merits of cell processor, versus GPU, versus dual core, AMD architecture versus Intel's (math vs FSB vs memory bandwidth....ad infinitum). Simply put, Stanford will utilize whatever's available the best practical, usable research.
Yes, it is an improvement and yes, it is still better fold-for-the-dollar than most any other path I can think of.
I think the upsides are evident:
The PS3 has made an undeniable impact on the project. A 2-to-1+ jump in folding capability in the space of a weekend in folding. This system has single-handedly changed the folding landscape and has pole-vaulted the ability to find a cure. If for no other reason, PS3 folding was a coup in DCP strategy..
FAH reports that to fold 24/7, the power draw has been measured at 200W- and that is equal to or better than many PCs. So the power burden is the same, and if you don’t do anything special with your PC client, your point harvest will be significantly improved. Couple that with the fact that IBM is now producing 65nm Cell processors, the PS3 may be more efficient still- fairly soon.
For what it is worth, I think SM going with the PS3 as a folding rig is a worthy proposition, given the facts. It is, for now, still probably the best investment for your dollar- it’s just not as good on a per-unit basis as I thought and hoped it would be.
I'll agree with that, and also mention to build a system able to harness a GPU and the overall cost of a GPU is still much more than a standard PS3
To Note SM93PS3 is down currently and has been for the last 24 hours hopefully it will be folding away later today
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited March 2007
I'll agree with that, and also mention to build a system able to harness a GPU and the overall cost of a GPU is still much more than a standard PS3
Good point. I'm just hoping that in six months when Intel and AMD both have quad core CPUs in general circulation, Core2Duos will be cheap on the pre-owned market. That might end up being the best bang for the bug for privateers on a budget and for Team 93. Don't get me wrong, fellows, I have not dismissed PS3 as a possible SMx vehicle.
There is a lot going on in the program these days. If you look at the changes in the last year or so, just the proliferation of multi-core and GPU folding.
One thing that I see is that the size of the projects has gotten huge. I understand this from the scientific modeling point of view, but wow.
My X1950 pro is running 4-6 days per WU.
My E6300 running SMP is taking 30-40 hours per WU.
The points are just a signal from F@H as to what they find important. It might be time for them to say, WU type "X" is most important to us now, and since it runs best on some machines it will only be assigned to them.
My PS3 seems to have stopped looking at my points, will check it out tonight - it might have stopped folding to push the latest update patch my way. I have only logged onto it twice! Its been folding since I got it tucked away in the corner of the room!
Sledge- Did your PS3 fold 24/7 or did you take liberties and play on it when you did your sample? No criticism here- as a matter of fact- playing some on it would probably be more real for me.
Krazey- Sounds like you have done 24/7- do you have an idea of how much your you did a week?
Also, I've noticed that this team took off with the FAH release on the PS3 March 23rd- WOW!
This thing made a BIG difference with them- I think they had it planned out.
At any rate, my son is talking about the PS3 and is waiting for it to drop in price some- so I'm pretty curious.
Comments
Linky
You would have to read the whole article to get an understanding but, honestly, I find this disappointing.
The bottom line is that WUs are being tailored to your CPU’s capability and mission. That of the PS3 (for now) is as follows:
Until more variety and missions become available to the PS3, this seems to be a pretty rigid structure.
So don’t trade in your more versatile Opterons and C2Ds- there are points for those willing to chance beta clients and WUs- or happen to land WUs that fit their cache. Point-wise, you may be able to best the PS3.
But at what price? to put a sweet C2D rig or even a Dual Opty rig together would cost almost double a PS3
I have no doubt that Stanford will provide whatever incentives are necessary to get the biggest return on investment for the advancement of Folding@Home. I can't explain the technical merits of cell processor, versus GPU, versus dual core, AMD architecture versus Intel's (math vs FSB vs memory bandwidth....ad infinitum). Simply put, Stanford will utilize whatever's available the best practical, usable research.
I think the upsides are evident:
The PS3 has made an undeniable impact on the project. A 2-to-1+ jump in folding capability in the space of a weekend in folding. This system has single-handedly changed the folding landscape and has pole-vaulted the ability to find a cure. If for no other reason, PS3 folding was a coup in DCP strategy..
FAH reports that to fold 24/7, the power draw has been measured at 200W- and that is equal to or better than many PCs. So the power burden is the same, and if you don’t do anything special with your PC client, your point harvest will be significantly improved. Couple that with the fact that IBM is now producing 65nm Cell processors, the PS3 may be more efficient still- fairly soon.
For what it is worth, I think SM going with the PS3 as a folding rig is a worthy proposition, given the facts. It is, for now, still probably the best investment for your dollar- it’s just not as good on a per-unit basis as I thought and hoped it would be.
I can live with that
To Note SM93PS3 is down currently and has been for the last 24 hours
One thing that I see is that the size of the projects has gotten huge. I understand this from the scientific modeling point of view, but wow.
My X1950 pro is running 4-6 days per WU.
My E6300 running SMP is taking 30-40 hours per WU.
The points are just a signal from F@H as to what they find important. It might be time for them to say, WU type "X" is most important to us now, and since it runs best on some machines it will only be assigned to them.
Sledge- Did your PS3 fold 24/7 or did you take liberties and play on it when you did your sample? No criticism here- as a matter of fact- playing some on it would probably be more real for me.
Krazey- Sounds like you have done 24/7- do you have an idea of how much your you did a week?
Also, I've noticed that this team took off with the FAH release on the PS3 March 23rd- WOW!
This thing made a BIG difference with them- I think they had it planned out.
At any rate, my son is talking about the PS3 and is waiting for it to drop in price some- so I'm pretty curious.
My PS3 will be coming online again this evening - I've been playing with it trying to get the wireless working - no joy.