Need Recommendations for Major Upgrades

Leonardo

Need your comments, advice, and recommendations please for major upgrades I'll be performing to my two home computers. I hope to start working on them the first week in July.

Here's what I've got:

System 1: Abit KX7333-R, Athlon XP2100, 512MB Samsung 2700, 2XWD800BB in RAID 0 config; Radeon 8500 LE 64MB, Alpha 8045 cooler, all in Global Win spacious aluminum case;

System 2: Abit KR7A-R, Athlon XP1900, 512MB Twinmoss 2700, 2XWD600BB in RAID 0 config, Radeon 8500 LE 128 MB; Alpha 8045 cooler, all in Antec 1030B case;

Both systems have excellent, spacious cases, with good quality PSUs. Intent for new systems is only moderate (if any) overclocking. I want high performance, but instead of RAID and overclocking, my pursuit will be quiet operation, matched with first class speed. I will not be on benchmark quests but want snappy machines.

I am dead set on building an Intel machine. I've already built severeal Athlon machines and really want to add Intel to my repertoir.

Both machines will each have two hard drives - the second drive serving as an image drive. I'm religious about Ghosting my systems for backups. I do not intend to run RAID. Been doing that for two years now, and am tired of all the extra cables and extra variables when dealing with Windows installation. I do though, want RAID motherboards for the flexibility the extra HDD ports offer. I will tweak both machines as far as I can without raising temperatures and without compromising stability. I want minimum fans in both towers.

OK, here are my proposals. Please heap your comments, criticism and whatnot on me:

System 1 (Intel):
-- Mobo: Abit IC7 (Intel Canterwood, hyperthreading (800MHz FSB-4X200, 400MHz Memory)
-- CPU: Intel P4, 2800MHz, 800 FSB, Hyperthreading) (3.0+ GHz if prices fall soon)
-- Memory, PC3200, 2X512 Geil "Value Ultra" CAS 2.5/6-3-3 -2T (1024 MB of DDR at 2.5 CAS is more important to me than 512MB or high performance CAS 2; these 512 sticks at Newegg for $69).
-- HDD: WD800JB, 8MB cache (primary drive); backup drive will be existing WD600BB
-- Video Card: Radeon 9500 64MB OEM
-- This machine is for general purpose, consisting of heavy office applications, Folding, and some gaming.

System 2 (AMD):
-- Mobo: Abit NF7-S v2.0, (nForce 2-SPP Chipset, SATA RAID, Serillel adaptor)
-- CPU: AMD XP 2800 Barton, 400MHz FSB (XP 3000 Barton if prices fall soon)
-- Memory, PC3200, 2X512 Geil "Value Ultra" CAS 2.5/6-3-3 -2T (1024 MB of DDR at 2.5 CAS is more important to me than 512MB or high performance CAS 2; these 512 sticks at Newegg for $69).
-- HDD: WD800JB, 8MB cache (primary drive); backup drive will be existing WD600BB
-- Video Card - Radeon 9500 128MB OEM.
-- This machine is for general purpose, with emphasis on gaming and folding. Office applications all types also.

Video card for System 2. Will this selection perform noticeably better than the Radeon 8500 LE 128MB OEM that is currently in that machine.

Yeah, I know, the Geil DRAM is CAS 2.5. But at $69 per 512MB, I can afford a gigabyte of RAM in each machine.

CPU cooler for the P4 - I'll probably just purchase a retail P4 and use the stock HSF unit. If the fan is loud, I'll replace it with something from my parts bin. Arctic Silver III and a good lapping on the HS base should suffice, assuming I don't overclock too much.

Thanks in advance for your advice!

Leo

Matt

Originally posted by Leonardo

System 1 (Intel):
-- Mobo: Abit IC7 (Intel Canterwood, hyperthreading (800MHz FSB-4X200, 400MHz Memory)
-- CPU: Intel P4, 2800MHz, 800 FSB, Hyperthreading)
-- Memory, PC3200, 2X512 Geil "Value Ultra" CAS 2.5/6-3-3 -2T (1024 MB of DDR at 2.5 CAS or high performance CAS 2
-- HDD: WD800JB, 8MB cache (primary drive); backup drive will be existing WD600BB
-- Video Card: Radeon 9500 64MB OEM.

since you want an intel computer this would make a nice one.

natenut

check out http://www.silentpcreview for all your quiet computing needs. Check out the recommended section for hardware that is the quietest. You probably would want to get a zalman heatsink/fan combo and there are more suggestions on powersupplies, cooling fans, and harddrives.

have fun, hope this helps.

Omega65

Leo the Radeon 9500 Pro is the same R300 core as the radeon 9700 series. The only difference is a lower core clockspeed and it uses 128bit DDR memory instead of the R9700 256bit DDR memory.

The 9500 (non pro) on the otherhand deactivates 4 0f the R300 8 pipelines and uses 128bit SDRam for even less memory bandwidth.

To sum up the R9500 Pro would pimpslap the R8500LE !

Enverex

You could think ahead a bit further and buy a GF-FX5800, but thats only if you have the extra cash.

I would also say at least 120GB drives, I filled up my 80GB before I knew what was happening.

NS

Matt

if i had to pick between the geforce FX5800 and the 9500 i would get the 9500 and hack the bios with the 9700 so now you have a 9700(non-pro). and you can overclock. i got a 9500pro and hacked the bios to the 9700pro and now i can run the card at 390/330 in any game i want.

Enisada

I'm going to have to agree with NightShade737 there on the HD's I htink you should go a bit biger if the budget permits. But I suppose in the end it depends on what you are loading up on those systems. Just a bunch of games shouldn't matter. But music and games, or music, videos, and games then you gotta reconsider your options. I got 315GB over 4 drives and I got about 150GB left over. I bought these two of the driver less than six months ago and the other two just weeks ago. But I didn't hear you mention music and or videos so I think you should be alright...lol

Enisada

Leonardo

Thanks, guys. Good comments - all. I think my budget limits me to the Radeon 9500 series. What about 2D quality? What, if any improvement would I see with a 9500 over and 8500? If not any, I'll just keep my 8500/128 for the non-gaming rig.

Hard drive capacity - good point. Staples right now is offereing their 160GB/8MB Maxtor Ultras for $70 after Maxtor rebate and Staples in-store coupon. Hmm, only one Staples in Augusta. I guess I need to enlist a friend to go in with me.

Maxtor deal - http://www.icronticforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=320

I just hope that Geil DRAM deal - CAS 2.5, 512MB/$69 is still available when I get around to ordering parts.

Leonardo

Knowing my Icrontic tech fanatics as I do, I thought you all might appreciate hearing how my two rebuilds are coming along. I would imagine this little narrative won't bore you to death.

Well, all the parts are either ordered, procured, bargained for through private trades, or are in my present systems.

Here's how it stacks up (very close to what I had originally planned):

SYSTEM 1 (INTEL)
Mobo: Abit IC7 - Intel "Canterwood" 875 chipset, hyperthreading, 800MHz FSB-4X200, 400MHz Memory (Monarchcomputer.com)
-- CPU: Intel P4, 2800MHz, 800 FSB, Hyperthreading (private trade)
-- Memory, PC3200, 2X512 Geil "Value Ultra" CAS 2.5/6-3-3 -2T (1024 MB of DDR at 2.5 CAS is more important to me than 512MB of high performance CAS 2) (Newegg @$73/512MB module)
-- HDD: 2 X 80GB Maxtor Ultra, 8MB cache, RAID 0 config (Staples)
-- HDD: (Ghost - backup), Western Digital, WD800JB, 8MB cache (private trade)
-- Video Card: Radeon 9500 Pro (private trade)
-- rounded cables throughout (SVCompucycle - .99 to $2.49 each! sale is still on as of today! already installed in my current systems - work perfectly. Airflow IS better.)
-- PSU: Robontron 600W, absolutely super power supply, rock solid voltage lines (existing system - former private trade with our very own Tex!)
-- HSF - stock Intel unit that will arrive with my P4 2.8. I'll hone the base and install one of my Mechatronics 80mm jobbers.
-- GlobalWin YCC 61F1 aluminum, homely, but oh-so-well engineered and spacious (present system)

SYSTEM 2 (AMD):
-- Mobo: Abit NF7-S v2.0, (nForce 2-SPP Chipset, SATA RAID (Monarch - guaranteed rev. 2.0)
-- CPU: AMD XP 2800 Barton (Newegg)
-- Memory, PC3200, 2X512 Geil "Value Ultra" CAS 2.5/6-3-3 -2T (Newegg)
-- HDD: WD800JB, 8MB cache (private trade)
-- HDD: (backup-Ghost) IBM GXP 60GB (from present system - hey, it's been perfectly reliable so far, and quite fast and quiet running)
-- Video Card - Radeon 8500LE 128MB OEM (from present system; may upgrade later to 9500 Pro)
-- PSU: Robontron 600W, absolutely super power supply, rock solid voltage lines (existing system - former private trade with our very own Tex!)
-- HSF: Alpha 8045/Mechatronics fan (present system)
-- Case: Chieftec (Antec 1030B) (present system)

I thought long and hard about my choice of the CAS 2.5 Geil RAM - not exactly head-spinning performance. I went through all the pros and cons of high-speed versus sheer volume. I opted for volume. Hey, what can I say - 2GB PC3200 CAS 2.5 for $292. Supposedly the RAM runs well in dual channel, NF2, and Intel 875 systems. We'll see.

Stock HSF unit for Intel box - I'll lap it well, slap on a Mechatronics, and apply Arctic Silver III. We'll see how it goes. I can always upgrade later. Hey, anyone know if socket A Athlon heatsinks will fit Intel Socket 478? (Sorry, haven't researched that one yet.) If that's the case, I've got another Alpha 8045 coming out of one of my systems for it.

New systems/rebuilds financed mainly through "travel pay" from my adventure in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

(A little spam? HEADS UP - parts from my present systems will soon be posted for sale at the trading post. Preview: KX7333-R, volt-modded!; AXP 2000; KR7A-R; AXP 1900; WD BB series hard drives.....)

Leo

Aranyic

Let me know how you like that intel system they are looking very nice lately.

Leonardo

This will be my first Intel build. I've long said I'm not partial to any tech manufacturer; but previously bang-for-buck was with Athlon systems. Yes, the IC7-P4 2.8C cost me about $80 more than NF7-S (2.0) that I've ordered, but price-performance ratio is not firmly in AMD's court any more.

I'm still rooting for AMD, though. Intel NEEDS serious competition, or we'll be back to Celerons and early PIII-type garbage.

Ageek

IF you are getting a stock Intel heatsink and fan combo with your P4 and it came with or is for the 2.8 GHz P4 range, you probably will not need any lapping-- paper towel rubbed on the silly black stuff until through to the solder layer that is preapplied, tib of Arctic Silver III (enough to spread on whole plate), fasten down rotating both levers in opposite directions at once AFTER Mobo is on mobo tray. EXCPECT mobo tocurve some under fan pressure, it si supposed to. Only one thing,please if can take mobo tray out of case before mounting-- the studs might be a tib short and the curve might just make soem of the socket pin nubbins touch the botom of the tray. If so, cut a square of the pink foam if you have any leftover and stick under mobo where socket is after carefully rotating the levers at once in opposite directions the OPPOSITE way so the mobo uncurves and you can get the foam under there.

Now, the newer fans look like they have thin silver bearing solder layer on the working part of the heatsink (part that contacts CPU) and it reflects a bit with zero lapping. But the black stuff on the silver solder layer turned out to be strictly protective and on my first P4 it nicely melted and I got to remove with rubbing alcohol-- thermal high carbon layer yes, effective NOT. Temps went down 3 C after removing black stuff. Artic Silver II did not change much-- CPU operates in good temp range so never stuck AS III on it.

No, nothing AMD should be used for heatsink for the P4 as the holddowns differ and posts need different on heat sink mountings and stock P4 fan works. Ifthere is an underside X bracket under CPU socket, that stays. Newer and older fans do not cause cracks in Intel brand mobos of newer sorts by over curving them.

John Danielson

Leonardo

John,

Thanks for the advice. I've copied this for reference before I build the IC7 system. It will be my first Intel build.

thesittingduck2

Good Luck LEO
Will be making the move my self one day.
Looking forward to hearing how this goes.

TSD2

Leonardo

No construction yet; just running the new hard drives in my present system to thoroughly test them. One system will have two Maxtor Ultra, 8MB cache HDDs and the other two WD JBs. So far, I give the edge to the Maxtors - very quiet! The WDs are not loud, but two of them in one system create a harmonic overtone that is slightly annoying. I'll have to work on vibration dampening.

I can start building when I get my software problem solved. Problem? Yup - destroyed my XP Pro CD! Not to worry, help is on the way.

Duck, good to see you. I'll keep this thread updated.

Leo

Ageek

Happy to help if I can.

Leonardo

You bet! We'll see how it goes!

Swordsman

Leo,
Just as a point of info, I convinced Micro$oft that I fried an XP cd and they sent me out another on w/in 3 days!! No charge! I now have 2 legit XP Pro cd's!!

For informational purposes only. No software was harmed in this post.

S!

Leonardo

Check out my signature - rebuilds nearly completed. Just looking for another Radeon 9500 Pro (or flashable 9500) for system 2.

Preliminary comments:

1. Both were relatively easy to build. Both were fairly easy to configure. The edge here for ease of software/OS setup is the AMD system. The IC7 system was relatively easy to setup, except that I had to learn BIOS settings for "On-chip" SATA. NF7-Barton was rock solid stable from the moment OS was installed and motherboard drivers were installed. Intel was equally stable after minor tweaks.

2. Both systems' OS installation was without a clean install, as so-- OS install; remove/uninstall nearly all drivers and devices; shut down system; disassemble; rebuild; reset CMOS; start-boot to CD; install WinXP in "Repair" mode.

3. Geil RAM performs exactly as advertised - CAS 2.5, 6-3-3. It's running perfectly in the NF7 box, and is running famously in the Intel system with Hyperthreading and dual channel enabled.

4. Bugs - NF7 has NONE whatsoever; IC7 3.3 voltage fluctuates from 3.1 to 3.7; IC7's hardware monitoring software (both Motherboard Monitor 5 and Hardware Doctor) report CPU core temperature 30+*C higher than BIOS reports.

5. OK, the BIG question. PERFORMANCE? Completely unempirically with no tests or benchmarks to back up my statement.... I give the edge to the Intel Canterwood system. It is simply fast, fast, fast. The NF7 is not far behind it, though.

6. Dual channel goodness (Intel) - running two instances of Folding@Home. One instance is as a service, run by one channel (virtual "CPU 1"); the other instance in normal mode by "CPU 0".

I will be posting a separate thread concerning the IC7's 3.3 apparent voltage fluctuation under the Motherboards forum.

No overclocking....yet. That should prove to be quite fun.

Fixed whine of the WD800JBs. Pretty simple, I merely affixed felt pads, the kind used on kitchen drawers and cabinets, onto the hard drives' surfaces that come into contact with the Chieftec's drive cages.

My hat is off to both Intel and AMD. To Intel - finally a CPU-chipset combo that really lives up to the hype; to AMD - nVidea - excellent engineering that is very competitive.

This was my first Intel build. I've always said that I'd go with whoever had the best bang for the buck. Intel was slightly more expensive, but not by much considering I'm using the stock, $3 Intel heatsink fan unit. And, oh yes - why can't AMD come up with a heatsink retention mechanism as simple and easy to use as the P4's?

Leo

PS - Thank you to Ageek, for helping me understand the Hyperthreading-Dual Channel workings and Windows interaction with it.

Ageek

Welcome-- happy to.

For "VIBY" hard drives, what they used to do was stick o-rings on sides around screw holes (or rubber grommets), what I do is use a tib of Clear GE Silicone right on holes (if the Silicone is used, do not let it set before putting screw through it). I like your idea equally well.

Leonardo

Thread on 3.3V problem and software misreading of CPU core temp is here - http://www.icronticforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1602


One more kudos to give: The Geil DRAM at $73/512MB (Newegg)was an absolute bargain. I had it running in the IC7 at CAS2 for a while. Later monkeying around with some other settings though, I could not reboot the machine at CAS2. I'll fiddle with that later.